Bolt up turbocharger upgrade - Vol-2

I may be mistaken, but i think a few vendors on the board may still have some in-stock

Ask Underdog, he might?

I have sold a few kits to underdog (Rick), cryotune (Dave) and azp (Mike). I do not know there inventory level, they did not buy large quantities (just a few to keep for walk in customers).

 

I currently do not have the funds to buy more inventory. Sales have been slow (overall). Plus the mark up on the kits is not enough to actually save up from sales and buy more inventory (part of the problem with getting funding for production). Small production runs (100 at a time) from small American companies is not as cheap as huge production runs made over seas.

 

So, at this point I am sitting on the extra inventory (of the most expensive custom made parts) and waiting until end of December to see if there is enough funds to have more of the rest made up to hold inventory of complete kits again. Best ETA I have right now for more is early Jan. That ETA relies on a healthy December and then some.

 

Sorry all. Trust me, I wish things were better off all around. It is the holidays... I have 2 employees who rely on me for income, and an out of work wife and a 6mnth old daughter to take care of. Life priorities take precedent over oil line kits.

For the record I am out of stock on the oil line kit as well.

 

Dave

Mike, I hope your business turns around. You do such good work and you have so much knowledge. Any California orders I will suggest to go to you for installation.

 

I will do my best to get a kit together ASAP. I do have these questions.

 

What thread pitch is the banjo bolt that goes into the cylinder head?

 

What length does the main turbo oil supply hose need to be?

 

What thread pitch does the cap need to be that caps off the original oil supply line that went to the turbo?

 

Bryan@BNR

205 640 1193

What thread pitch is the banjo bolt that goes into the cylinder head?

Just measured mine and I believe it's 12x1.25mm. Turbo should be 10x1.5mm, but I'm sure you knew that one.

 

 

 

 

What length does the main turbo oil supply hose need to be?

According to this, the Infamous kit's lines are 16" and 10".

 

 

 

 

What thread pitch does the cap need to be that caps off the original oil supply line that went to the turbo?

I swear I read this the other day. It's an odd taper IIRC. I'll see if I can find it.

 

*EDIT*

Found it.

 

See the oil pipe that goes up to nowhere and is next to the arrow and text "to the turbo" below. The threading/fitting on the end of that pipe that would run to the stock turbo in stock form, is M12x1.0 male flare. This is a rare fitting.

I am aware of two aftermarket solutions that others are already using:

1) The cap that FP includes with their STi line. It is an aluminum cap that FP ordered (custom order/production run of 1000). So if you call them, they would have extras available for order.

2) The adapter from M12x1.0 to -4an that ATP Turbo sells: http://www.atpturbo.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=tp&Product_Code=ATP-FTG-030&Category_Code=ATP-OIL2

Very expensive like everything they sell, but otherwise a great way to make use of that extra fitting.

Edited November 22, 2013 by Turkeylord

Something like this might help get around the oddball double banjo bolt problem:

 

 

http://cdn3.maperformance.com/images/P/BanjoBolt-1-500x500.png

http://www.maperformance.com/blox-racing-banjo-bolt-adapters-bxga-00110.html

Mike, forgive me if this seems obvious, but why not mark them up more? You produce a unique product that is in demand. You will still sell them if you charge more. Maybe you will sell less, but I would think it would still be worth it in the end.

 

This. Honestly it's an only well thought out solution for our troubled, debris filled, turbo oil systems out there.

 

To put a price on it, I'd not object to $225 at all. Extra $50 in the whole scheme of upgrading a turbo is a drop in a bucket in my mind.

Edited November 22, 2013 by dga

I got plenty of heat about the price when I released the kits (about 2 years ago or so). Since then production costs have risen almost 20%, but I have kept the price of the kits the same. I see that the other lines that were available back then, have now risen dramatically in price as well which would lead one to believe I could raise my price.

 

But... the feedback I still get from customers is that the cost of the line set is too high especially when it gets added into the cost of the BNR turbo and overall replacement. Besides the complaints that my packaging should be better (meaning more expensive) that the instructions should be better (meaning more time and expense) and the insane amount of time I spend with each BNR customer that calls after speaking with Bryan. Somehow I become the tech support for the entire turbo failure/replacement and can easily spend 1-2 hours (or more) on the phone with each customer answering questions (but I am the one making the least amount off the sales). I have even had the shops installing the turbos and line kits call and have me hold their hand and walk them through everything.

That sucks man, i scratched my head for a few minutes when i first got into it, but it all made sense after 1) reading the instructions and 2) looking through the link provided in the instructions. Perhaps another sticky on the forum w/ more pictures would help? I dunno, I'm in the mindset that if you can't figure out where it goes/how to install it w/ the provided information.. you might not be qualified to be installing it in the first place

I have a ton of pics from my install i could post somewhere, and can get a few more if you need them to help out w/ the 'tech support' aspect of thing

And those who want prettier packaging... geeze.... :spin:

1. High-quality, especially in a high-demand application, is not cheap
   
2. Quality engineering - designed-to-fit, engineered to exceed requirements - justifies higher pricing, all things considered
   
3. This may appear to be a niche product offering, but it has broad application across a number of platforms, so increasing production, to meet demand makes sense, limited funds notwithstanding
   
4. The "knowledge" factor is a huge benefit, but like everything else, it can't be completely "free", there has to be a cost somewhere, so it needs to be factored into the product
   
5. A man should be able to provide for his family from the fruit of his labors. With margins so precariously thin, the only way to overcome this is to sell more, which goes back to point 3.
   
6. And finally, with the USG printing money as fast as it can, the rising cost of goods is not a reflection of the material base costs, it's a reflection of the decreased buying power of the currency. 20% is just the tip of the iceberg
   

Mike - completely understand where you are and where you're coming from. Making ends meet for you and your team is daunting. I for one would pay more for your engineered products. And I have, because I've done side-by-side comparisons with the competition and quickly and easily see where they cut corners, and compromised the integrity and longevity of the product to get under a price threshold, whereas you don't. Your products on the other hand, don't cut corners and they will certainly be around well-after some of the cheap and knock-off stuff is long-gone.

Mike sorry to hear about the BS. I'm no small business owner, but I'd simply raise the price. Like you said, it's only an oil line kit.

 

Shit, I was elated when I ran across BNR and the prices of his turbos. To see that I could buy a bigger turbo, that is rebuild able, from a reputable guy, for about $500 less than the replacement VF-46...it's a no brainer that I'd want to protect it for a bit more. I'm surprised that Brian does not sell them straight up with a turbo for a Subaru, price included.

 

I read the post about the packaging and in all honest that was from someone who you could not please if you gave them the parts for free, cause you did not install them for him. I'll order one from your next batch and take a load of pictures, do a detailed write up, and if it fancies you, you can post a pdf of the whole thing on your site next to the kit.

Edited November 22, 2013 by dga

I got plenty of heat about the price when I released the kits (about 2 years ago or so). Since then production costs have risen almost 20%, but I have kept the price of the kits the same. I see that the other lines that were available back then, have now risen dramatically in price as well which would lead one to believe I could raise my price.

 

But... the feedback I still get from customers is that the cost of the line set is too high especially when it gets added into the cost of the BNR turbo and overall replacement. Besides the complaints that my packaging should be better (meaning more expensive) that the instructions should be better (meaning more time and expense) and the insane amount of time I spend with each BNR customer that calls after speaking with Bryan. Somehow I become the tech support for the entire turbo failure/replacement and can easily spend 1-2 hours (or more) on the phone with each customer answering questions (but I am the one making the least amount off the sales). I have even had the shops installing the turbos and line kits call and have me hold their hand and walk them through everything.

 

I've said it 1000x, but I was very impressed with the quality and craftsmanship of your oil line kit. FWIW, I've been Machining almost 15 years, about 8 of them for Aerospace so I have very high standards for machined and/or turned parts and assemblies.

 

The instructions were detailed and easy to comprehend, and if someone does not agree, they probably shouldn't tackle this job.

 

The packing is fine.

It is exactly what I would do as well as it is cheap and efficient. It feels more personal to me as well.

"Fancy" vacuum formed packaging would only drive up cost.

 

I know I had some questions during my install, but I got everything I needed from the forum. I do feel my situations were a little unique, but now the info is out there and visible.

You were a major contributor to that. Thank you again.

 

I ended up getting 10% off my order from you and I kinda of felt bad about using it because you are such a stand up guy and I know how buisness works.

 

With all that said, your oil line kit could easily fetch $225 like dga said, but I'd say just under $250 because what you offer is far superior to the other option.

 

If people don't want to buy at that price, they can go with the other guys and their fitment issues.

Edited November 22, 2013 by TheBlackPearl

Ditto

M sprank you are a hero of mine

Thank you for your support in this community

If people think you have a high price point

Let them go elsewhere!!

I have been running my bnr tdo6 20g with your lines and kit with

No problems for over 20,000mi.

Thanks again bnr , infamous performance !!!

An oil line so fine

Feeding turbos sweet honey

Go Infamous go

And by God we expect higher prices on the next batch of the oil line kit Mike! I'd like to see your shop around for a long time to come. Edited November 22, 2013 by dga

I should have bought one when available even though I haven't even purchased an upgraded turbo yet. Had no idea this was coming (but do understand Mike's position). I will pay more for the well engineered product he's supplied to date, without hesitation.

All the comments are noted and greatly appreciated. I will consider raising the retail price and see if that helps me acquire the needed funds to buy more inventory sooner.

 

Surprisingly the LGT crowd are the only buyers of the line kits. I even make line kits (not filtered) for almost every turbo Subie from 02-14. The "niche" business is what has stopped me from offering other parts online that I only sell to walk in customers now.

Not that is would help your situation.. but what about an "open source" solution -- "this is what you need, and where to get it" obviously people would run into minimum order quantities etc... just a thought, i'd still get it from you m spank ;-)

Many of the parts in my kit are custom made, not available over the counter. So, I cant simply say "get one of these, here". The bracket that holds the filter is cut on the water jet, tumbled and then goes into the CNC (twice due to angles). The oil line caps are custom made on the CNC. The double banjo bolts are custom made and then cadmium plated. The 12mm banjo fitting is custom made. The lines are made to order, pressure tested to 2000psi and then sheathed in silicone fyre jacket. Etc, etc, etc.

In other words Mike, only the best stuff. It's amazing when I hold your custom-made parts in my hands and realize what went into making it. Like BNR's turbos, they're works of art, where fit, fitness and beauty comprise the contributing parts.

 

And TL - Nicely-worded Haiku. Nailed it.

I'm happy to say that I already have the IP&T line. Had an o-ring issue and Mike was very quick to make it right. Couldn't have been happier with my purchase and the service he offers. I would definitely pay a few more bucks without batting an eye. It, like an AOS, is a great safety addition to an upgraded turbo.

 

In regards to spending all day helping people on the phone I'd say create a sticky in your section on the forum and ask us members to post up install pictures, tips and tricks, etc. Whenever you get one of those calls point them to the thread and get us other enthusiasts involved. I enjoy reading and posting here much more than work.

Yes - I'm glad I picked up my jewel of an IPT turbo and AVCS oil line when they were available. It's waiting, patiently (right next to the new turbo) for the day when the Sun and the Moon align correctly, and the BNR68HTA install all comes together. Soon me thinks, soon.

MSprank:

 

You and other folks need to realize they should be paying more for your R&D, experience, trouble and time-saving knowledge that comes with everything you do. Your kit is one-of-a-kind that comes complete. If they want to risk their new turbo to other, less quality designs, or less-researched designs, then TFL when things go south.

 

I know I paid extensively for one-off turbo filter/supply line issues directly at my machine shop of choice with extensive knowledge in Subaru off-road and racing builds. I got what I wanted but paid out the nose for it.

 

I also know the line you walk to provide a quality service that goes above and beyond what others will provide. I too, am self-employed and just yesterday received a high compliment from a first-timer that said she had heard that I do a better job than the other guy and was more thorough in everything I do. I charge a premium for what I do, as a result of spending twice as much time as the other guy.

 

Hang in there and keep focus on the family, child, shop and your sanity! You're no good to the rest of us if you're not in business!

 

You've been great to me in the past and I know this place wouldn't be the same without your support to the community!