Official 5th Generation Suspension Thread

This great deal on SPC rear LCAs. Somebody snap them up.

 

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SPC Lower Control Arms 15+ STI/WRX

Care to share pic's if you got some, hate to buy site unseen.

I went to get my GT aligned today and it didn't go well.

I gave them a printed sheet of specific camber and toe values. This is almost exactly what I gave them for my 2.5i (just a slight difference in toe) which they did almost spot on.

Camber 1.2-1.3 camber in the front

Toe 0.2-0.3 per side front

and

Camber 0.7-0.8 camber in the rear

Toe as close to 0.00 as possible.

I get to the front desk to pay, I ask for alignment sheet and I noticed it was not what I asked for. As I was looking at it he said they had a little bit of problem getting the rear camber specs I wanted with the toe/camber.

So I spoke to one of the alignment guys, I think he was the shop manager and he worked on my rear suspension. He said the original tech doing my alignment couldn't get it in spec, so he worked on it for a while. He said it was impossible to get and they did the best they could do. (I believed him)I explain my 2.5i had this suspension had no problems. He said I needed rear thread camber rods to fix the toe and then we will get it perfect.

I then asked about the front why was that so far off, the guy at the desk said 'its in the green.' Mind you I am paying double the normal rate for a custom alignment. The shop manager went back to tech. the tech came out slammed my paperwork down and told the guy at the desk to make an appointment. They didn't charge me for the alignment.

I suspect my car might have offset bushings for the toe arms. Perhaps that is screwing up the alignment range.

I found these. It seems like they are the right part. I did a search on this forum but I found almost no one using them.

http://www.spcalignment.com/component/spc/?task=part_description&pid=67655&region=USA&make=Subaru&model=Legacy&year=2010%20-%202017&from=USAFrom&to=USATo

I used the SPC Toe Arms on my Fozz with the SPL Toe Arm lockdowns. Worked perfect! Needed them because I brought the LCA in approximately 3/16" on each side to correct the camber and with the stock LCA I was at the limit of toe adjustment already on the stock toe arms after lowering the car 2.5".

http://www.subaruforester.org/vbulletin/f115/gteaser-s-2009-xteaser-533601/index14.html#post6102665

Holy caster, Batman.

How low is your car? That's a lot of caster. Must have offset bushings or top hats or something to be getting 6.7 caster...

Holy caster, Batman.

 

How low is your car? That's a lot of caster. Must have offset bushings or top hats or something to be getting 6.7 caster...

It is 1" lowered. I looked back at my 2.5i alignment with the same springs and it had 5.2/5.6 caster. My car has whiteline bushings on the control arms and Group N struts mounts. I am not sure if the prior owner installed anything offset.

My GT has these mods from the original owner (pulled from his FS ad)

Subaru Group N Front Top Hats

Whiteline Front Lower Control Arm Bushings

Whiteline Front Caster Adjustment Bushings

Whiteline Rear Camber Adjustment Bushings

Whiteline Rear Lower Trailing Arm Bushings

I added Koni/Eibach and SPC adjustable LCA's.

My car has been driving me a little nutty, the suspension is still noticeably harsher than my 2.5i when the same springs/struts. My biggest annoyance is that I have some rattles on bumps, this is worse with the Koni vs KYB. Initially thought some of the rattles were due my mistake installing the rear suspension install because most of the noises appear after the rear suspension R & R. (Initially did actually forget to tighten a end link, but I ifxed that in early July) I pulled the rear suspension apart last weekend and I checked everything I had touched for proper assembled and couldn't find any issues. So I am starting to think the rattles are due the increase damper stiffness of the Koni along with the stiffer bushings/mounts. I am also not sure if the rattles are just because it has had a stiff suspension for a long time. Perhaps some combination of both. Eventually, I might just have to put some effort into hunting down the rattles, but it seems like I could improve some of it with suspension itself since it was quieter back in June when I bought it.

Next weekend I am installing rear toe arms, so I am dealing with the suspension again. I am also not quite sure where exactly where the 'Whiteline Rear Camber Adjustment Bushings' is either. I believe those are what caused an issue with my alignment not achieving the specs I wanted.

I have been tempted to just rip all of the stiffer bushing/mounts out and replace them with stock rubber replacements. Rear lower trailing arm bushing is the bushing in the knuckle, which doesn't seem like an easy bushing to press out and it seems like I need to remove the rear knuckle to do this. On top of this, I am getting burnt-out from all the car work that I am doing. Every free weekend I have been wrenching on a car since June, so I want to see an end in sight.

In another thread, it suggested on the front LCA, just replace the smaller horizontal bushing, because the larger vertical bushing doesn't contribute to the harshness of the ride, but it just easier to buy another control arm (see above about feeling burnt-out)

I was thing back to another vehicle I have with solid motor mounts, the NVH is barely noticeable. If I had done a solid transmission mount so all the mounting point were solid the vibration are supposed drastically increased and many say unbearable. If I remove one piece of the stiffer bushing in suspension and replace it with a factory rubber part perhaps I will see a noticeable decrease in harshness. I could perhaps go about this in 1 bushing at time method it might be the easiest solution. I also may just deal with it for now and address the issue in October/November when motivation has returned.

That's a lot of caster. Must have offset bushings or top hats or something to be getting 6.7 caster...

It looks like you are right. I am assumed this is the front horizontal LCA bushing that creates the additional caster.

Yes, front LCA rear bushing (horizontal hockey puck) is the caster adjustment point with the Whiteline you have there.

The rear camber adjustment bushings are on the inboard side of the rear upper control arm.

I bet the hard bushings in the rear trailing arm and upper control arm are the source of your NVH in the rear. And I know that the front LCA bushing in the front are the cause of harshness in the front.

dgoodhue, my 3.6r had all the bushings replaced with poly. I did not have rattles.

Granted, all the work was done by a professional.

I had one squeak/clunk issue and it turned out to be the bottom bolt of the front lower contol arm.

You may want to go through every bolt on your subframe and make sure they are tight.

The fundemental problem is with the design of both the Whitelines and the OEM bushing that inherently stretches the bushing material causing it to rip as well as rip away from the steel sleeve.

This is why the AVO designed bushing so much better and not prone to failure. AVO uses a tapered bushing mounted on the center steel locator with another bushing with an inverted taper which is bonded to the outer steel press-in sleeve. It's a superior design. That interface between the two bushings is what allows the suspension articulation without stressing the bushing material itself while maintaining suspension geometry.

Here is what it looks like assembled. The shaft pivots in the outer bushing and the two ring bushings handle vertical load and squeegee crud away from the shaft. I use "pivot" loosely since it moves exactly zero in my hand but with 900 lbs on it, it'll moves. Greased up, it should last forever.

My GT has these mods from the original owner (pulled from his FS ad)

 

Subaru Group N Front Top Hats

Whiteline Front Lower Control Arm Bushings

Whiteline Front Caster Adjustment Bushings

Whiteline Rear Camber Adjustment Bushings

Whiteline Rear Lower Trailing Arm Bushings

 

I added Koni/Eibach and SPC adjustable LCA's.

 

My car has been driving me a little nutty, the suspension is still noticeably harsher than my 2.5i when the same springs/struts. My biggest annoyance is that I have some rattles on bumps, this is worse with the Koni vs KYB. Initially thought some of the rattles were due my mistake installing the rear suspension install because most of the noises appear after the rear suspension R & R. (Initially did actually forget to tighten a end link, but I ifxed that in early July) I pulled the rear suspension apart last weekend and I checked everything I had touched for proper assembled and couldn't find any issues. So I am starting to think the rattles are due the increase damper stiffness of the Koni along with the stiffer bushings/mounts. I am also not sure if the rattles are just because it has had a stiff suspension for a long time. Perhaps some combination of both. Eventually, I might just have to put some effort into hunting down the rattles, but it seems like I could improve some of it with suspension itself since it was quieter back in June when I bought it.

 

Next weekend I am installing rear toe arms, so I am dealing with the suspension again. I am also not quite sure where exactly where the 'Whiteline Rear Camber Adjustment Bushings' is either. I believe those are what caused an issue with my alignment not achieving the specs I wanted.

 

I have been tempted to just rip all of the stiffer bushing/mounts out and replace them with stock rubber replacements. Rear lower trailing arm bushing is the bushing in the knuckle, which doesn't seem like an easy bushing to press out and it seems like I need to remove the rear knuckle to do this. On top of this, I am getting burnt-out from all the car work that I am doing. Every free weekend I have been wrenching on a car since June, so I want to see an end in sight.

 

In another thread, it suggested on the front LCA, just replace the smaller horizontal bushing, because the larger vertical bushing doesn't contribute to the harshness of the ride, but it just easier to buy another control arm (see above about feeling burnt-out)

I ended up only replacing the front control arms on my GT, so both of my front LCA bushing are now rubber. Today was the 1st day I have driven the car any significant distance. Replacing the front LCA solved most of what I disliked about the ride and I no longer feel like I am in a rush to tear apart the rear suspension.

You will need an alignment since all that caster is removed you probably now have a crap tonne of toe in. Probably 3-4 mm per side.

I had already scheduled it for an alignment yesterday. The alignment took awhile, because the shop still didn't get my alignment specs right, even they were charging me for a custom alignment (I gave them very specific specs, I expected F&R camber to be +/- 0.1, toe, to be +/- 0.01.) After picking up at lunch, I looked at the specs, they had the camber F&R rear to what I asked, I notice the front were toe in close to what I asked, the rears were toed out beyond my specs, which is not what I asked for all. I went over with that shop manager respectfully what my expectations were. 1 hour later I got my car what I wanted (at least on paper). On the first alignment if they had gotten the front closer to what I asked, I probably left the rear as is. Three alignments later(1 couple weeks ago, 2 yesterday), I am happy. The car drives great. It is amazing what subtle difference of alignment within spec and a good alignment do for the drive feel of the car.

Looking at the before specs, removing the offset caster bushings, removed 0.5deg of caster on both side, added 0.5 & 0.6 camber, added 0.02 & 0.03 per side of toe in.

Ok. Cool. So my 3 to 4 mm guess was off but not crazy

Glad it's sorted now.

I had already scheduled it for an alignment yesterday. The alignment took awhile, because the shop still didn't get my alignment specs right, even they were charging me for a custom alignment (I gave them very specific specs, I expected F&R camber to be +/- 0.1, toe, to be +/- 0.01.) After picking up at lunch, I looked at the specs, they had the camber F&R rear to what I asked, I notice the front were toe in close to what I asked, the rears were toed out beyond my specs, which is not what I asked for all. I went over with that shop manager respectfully what my expectations were. 1 hour later I got my car what I wanted (at least on paper). On the first alignment if they had gotten the front closer to what I asked, I probably left the rear as is. Three alignments later(1 couple weeks ago, 2 yesterday), I am happy. The car drives great. It is amazing what subtle difference of alignment within spec and a good alignment do for the drive feel of the car.

 

Looking at the before specs, removing the offset caster bushings, removed 0.5deg of caster on both side, added 0.5 & 0.6 camber, added 0.02 & 0.03 per side of toe in.

Where in the world did you go for your alignment? And, is there a better place you can go next time?

Supposedly I went one of the better shops the area (Direct Tire). I was recommend to go there years ago by a coworker who autocrosses and one of the rim refinishing shops. Maybe they have gone down hill but my good experiences were at a different location in the past. The location I went to is a 1/4 mile away from my work, so their is some convenience. It definitely had me frustrated and yesterday I questioned myself why am I am bringing my car here. The service manager was polite, listen to me and I did eventually meet my expectations so at least that was a plus.

Last night when I was looking at the receipt, the sales guy (who was a little cranky with me) wrote on the receipt, "We adjusted to the customer specifications!! tires will wear prematurely. Direct Tire not responsible" I am pretty sure it wasn't a canned response. What is funny is my front and rear toe are dead on what Subaru recommends for toe. The rear camber is less than the factory rear LCA ends up as and my front camber is only -0.2 degrees out of spec. Also all my specs ended up being even within the tolerance of the rack. It sure beats the 'in spec' alignment with toe in front / toe out toe rear, lopsided F/R camber so my car straight ahead is minimal. I bet my alignment is also has less tire wear as well than what I initially got or the typical lazy 'in spec' alignment.

Here is what it looks like assembled. The shaft pivots in the outer bushing and the two ring bushings handle vertical load and squeegee crud away from the shaft. I use "pivot" loosely since it moves exactly zero in my hand but with 900 lbs on it, it'll moves. Greased up, it should last forever.

 

So is this something I can change out in my garage or is a press required?

I would also be changing out the front LCA bushing as well

So is this something I can change out in my garage or is a press required?

I would also be changing out the front LCA bushing as well

I am 99.99% sure you will need a press. If you are going to install front LCA poly bushings and want a 2nd set of A-arms to reduce your downtime, I have set I would be willing to sell from my car.

I am 99.99% sure you will need a press. If you are going to install front LCA poly bushings and want a 2nd set of A-arms to reduce your downtime, I have set I would be willing to sell from my car.

If Wild Bill isn't interested, I may be

So is this something I can change out in my garage or is a press required?

I would also be changing out the front LCA bushing as well

Need press. Remove the LCA's and have a shop press out the old and press in the new.

Why do you want to change the front LCA bushings? If you're replacing them stock bushings, I think you'll be out of luck because Subaru does not sell them separately from the entire LCA assembly. If you are replacing them with hard bushings, be prepared for a huge increase in NVH.

I've had a bunch of thunks/chatter from the front suspension when going over smaller choppier bumps for about, well... the last year and a half.

I was thinking it would likely be the bushings. I'm at 115k and have not done anything yet. I was trying to get everything around so I could do a big suspension upgrade when I do the Koni's and Eibach's.

You're not thinking I should go with poly in either front LCA or CAB bushing? or just do the CAB? or am I looking in the wrong place?