Another 2.5i on E-85

Hello all I'm just posting this to say that My 2005 2.5i is now on E-85.

Engine Mod list:

Borla rep. UEL headers ($150 shipped)

Wrx 440cc top feed injectors ($100)

Air intake Silencer removed (Free)

Stage 2 hog-zawst ($0.85)

2 Road tune Maps 85/ E85 ($200)

I'd like to say that e-85 makes this car feel so much stronger, it feels 10 times better than it did stock. It pulls harder, there is no longer really any valve noise, and my milage so far hasn't dropped that much (usually a quarter tank gets me about 100 miles, so far on e85 with doing a bunch of pulls I got about 75-80 miles until I went through a quarter tank).

I have fallin even more in love with my car.

If you are in the Denver area and are looking to get tuned, use Eric from http://torquedperformance.com/ he doesn't charge by the hour, he shows you the gains and losses from doing a tweak to the tune, and he is a great guy.

Frankly, I have trouble believing you are having any real performance gains from E85. E85 has less engery than gasoline so it is impossible to get more power and the same gas mileage short of magic. Don't get me started on what a boondogle E85 is, and I know first hand living in Iowa. All of your other mods would have a lot more to do with any percieved performance gains than what you would get from E85, which is none. Personally, I avoid even putting E10 in ANY of my gasoline powered cars or equipment.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E85

We should not be turning food into fuel for little to no environmental benefit.

You can run more aggressive timing on E85. More timing = more power = real performance gains.

The gains on turbo cars are quite astounding.

Frankly, I have trouble believing you are having any real performance gains from E85. E85 has less engery than gasoline so it is impossible to get more power and the same gas mileage short of magic. Don't get me started on what a boondogle E85 is, and I know first hand living in Iowa. All of your other mods would have a lot more to do with any percieved performance gains than what you would get from E85, which is none. Personally, I avoid even putting E10 in ANY of my gasoline powered cars or equipment.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E85

 

We should not be turning food into fuel for little to no environmental benefit.

Wow I love how you came and drop a straight HATE BOMB on this guys post about his modifications. Not only do you sound extra salty you go off topic about converting corn into fuel.

Dude general chat that shit!

To the OP nice to hear you saw some gains with your mod package.

Yeah, he is TUNED for E-85, therefore sees gains.

I hate E-85 (and what it stands for) too, but I'd use it if I could tune my car to get more power from it.

Wow I love how you came and drop a straight HATE BOMB on this guys post about his modifications. Not only do you sound extra salty you go off topic about converting corn into fuel.

Maybe we can hope its an april fools joke?

Frankly, I have trouble believing you are having any real performance gains from E85.

:lol::lol::lol: Funniest post ever.

Frankly, I have trouble believing you are having any real performance gains from E85. E85 has less engery than gasoline so it is impossible to get more power and the same gas mileage short of magic. Don't get me started on what a boondogle E85 is, and I know first hand living in Iowa. All of your other mods would have a lot more to do with any percieved performance gains than what you would get from E85, which is none. Personally, I avoid even putting E10 in ANY of my gasoline powered cars or equipment.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E85

 

We should not be turning food into fuel for little to no environmental benefit.

I didn't say that it was the same milage I said it had dropped by about 20 miles on a quarter tank or about 20%

You need to go look at dyno numbers of cars running e-85 vs 91 or 93, and then talk all the sh*t you want.

And I never did it for the environment, I did it because e-85 allows more timing thus more power. Sorry to knock you off of your rant, but please carry on about how useless E-85 is for tuning and power gains.

....To the OP nice to hear you saw some gains with your mod package.

Thanks man!

I didn't say that it was the same milage I said it had dropped by about 20 miles on a quarter tank or about 20%

You need to go look at dyno numbers of cars running e-85 vs 91 or 93, and then talk all the sh*t you want.

 

And I never did it for the environment, I did it because e-85 allows more timing thus more power. Sorry to knock you off of your rant, but please carry on about how useless E-85 is for tuning and power gains.

I'm surprised that E85 is providing performance results. Spent a lot of time studying alternative fuels for a project a couple years ago. It's way less efficient so it's hard to believe that it's helping in any way.

That being said it's effing awesome that it does. I wish it was available here. I'd love to squeeze a bit more power out of my car for not too much more money.

OP I'm thrilled you got happy butt-dyno yield from e85. Maybe you will pave the way for some of the 2.5i members who dont want a turbokit but want some more power. I am looking forward to seeing a dyno or airboy.

Why are people suprised that e85 can yeild more power? Its clear that assumptions are being made by people that dont know anything about tuning. Fuel research does not clue you in about advancing timing in the face of reduced (no) knock. Timing + = POWAR.

Ethanol is not less efficient that gasoline. Efficiency is a factor of a engine/powerplant more than the fuel. Ethanol does have less ENERGY per unit than gasoline - thats why those of us running e85 go though it even FASTER. It takes 20% more fuel to make the same energy and we want to make MORE energy = more air and fuel (hence the need for injectors/tune).

...and no matter what the eco-nazi's say: domestic fuel > foreign fuel...

Im a bit skeptical. Would like to see a dyno chart comparo. E85 is really nothing more than a higher octane fuel. you need to be doing somthing with the engine that would necessitate the need for the higher octane in order to see gains such as a higher compression ratio or turbo. Im sure the tune helped the op but i'm skeptical as to the degree of improvement.

lets see some numbers.

Yeah, without numbers I retain my skepticism. From my research, the only types of engines that can see performance gains from E85 are already forced induction and his 2.5i is not. You do gain a benefit of fuel charge cooling, but in a NA engine the benefits would be minimal.

Flex fuel vehicle are also TUNED for E85 and they have terrible efficiency on E85.

OP - Is your 2.5i now strictly tuned for E85 or can you run straight gasoline also?

Why are people suprised that e85 can yeild more power? Its clear that assumptions are being made by people that dont know anything about tuning. Fuel research does not clue you in about advancing timing in the face of reduced (no) knock. Timing + = POWAR.

 

Ethanol is not less efficient that gasoline. Efficiency is a factor of a engine/powerplant more than the fuel. Ethanol does have less ENERGY per unit than gasoline - thats why those of us running e85 go though it even FASTER. It takes 20% more fuel to make the same energy and we want to make MORE energy = more air and fuel (hence the need for injectors/tune).

Think about what you just said here. If it takes more of it to produce the same amount of energy, it makes it less fuel efficient when comparing it to gasoline, which was my original statement. Now based on the octane rating, you should be able to get more power by raising the compression ratio, which I suppose would make it more power efficient

Flex fuel vehicle are also TUNED for E85 and they have terrible efficiency on E85. OP - Is your 2.5i now strictly tuned for E85 or can you run straight gasoline also?

Flex fuel vehicles are not performance "tuned for E85". They do not advance timing and get more power when running E85. They are set up not to lean out when running e85/to run it safely. OP should not be able to run gasoline on his e85 tune. He is making more power by advancing timing. Im guessing on gas it would knock bad/predetonate.

Stratomaster either you get it or you dont but it has nothing to do with stored energy vs efficiency.

Forget corn base or oil base for a minute.

The key (from what I have gathered so far) is the AKI / Octane rating.

AKI, Anti Knock Index (I believe)

Relates to how long it takes the fuel to burn in a set period of time. I believe that the higher the Octane number, the longer it takes the fuel burn completely. So, i higher compression engine needs fuel with a higher AKI rating to surpress detonation. (Knock)

E85 has a higher octane rating than 91-93 pump gas, BUT yields less energy by volume.

Sooo.... a fuel specific tune for e85 can and DOES allow for significant gains in power to the ground, at the cost of having to burn a good bit MORE of it than a safe pump gas map would use, while making LOWER numbers.

SINCE the pump gas map will NOT put down the same HP/TQ numbers as e85, without trying to forcibly eject a piston out the side of the car.... e85 is WORTH using 15 to 20 % more fuel for the extra power.

I uun a Utec Delta so I can switch maps in case corn juice isn't close by. I think this thread just made up my mind. I'm keeping my 68HTA & getting a e85 map instead of getting a Dom3.

Yeah, without numbers I retain my skepticism. From my research, the only types of engines that can see performance gains from E85 are already forced induction and his 2.5i is not. You do gain a benefit of fuel charge cooling, but in a NA engine the benefits would be minimal.

 

Flex fuel vehicle are also TUNED for E85 and they have terrible efficiency on E85.

 

OP - Is your 2.5i now strictly tuned for E85 or can you run straight gasoline also?

For all of the skeptics out there http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/2007-legacy-2-5i-tuned-e85-142383.html?t=142383

And as far as my tune I have 2 maps, one for e85 and one for regular 85 octane. Which I can switch from my computer using a Tactrix cable and ecu flash. All I have to do Is run the car down to about 1-2 gallons left and fill up the other fuel and switch maps.

Stratomaster either you get it or you dont but it has nothing to do with stored energy vs efficiency.

I'm pretty sure you're the one not getting it. It's less FUEL efficient than gasoline. You consume more fuel per given distance than you do with petroleum based gasoline. That was my original point. Not arguing that it can't make more power when tuned properly. Not sure how much clearer I can be than that.

I did not want to have to play high school physical science teacher:

Fuel efficiency = the process of converting chemical "potential" energy contained in a carrier (fuel) into kenetic energy. Fuel efficiency can vary per application/engine.

Fuel storage/"potential energy" = amoung of energy per a given unit. Does not change per application/energy.

Fuel economy = mpg (which factors in rolling resistance, mass, drag, etc). Changes per application/engine.

e85 has less storage, less fuel economy but in my instance is certainly more efficient for my application. (Efficient and inefficient fuel motors exist)

EDIT: No, I am NOT a h.s. physics teacher but I DID pass h.s. physics so I am able to share my 9th grade knowledge with those who dont have it.

I did not want to have to play high school physical science teacher:

 

e85 has less storage, less fuel economy but in my instance is certainly more efficient for my application. (Efficient and inefficient fuel motors exist)

Are you a high school physics teacher?

someone else's application may be better fuel economy, making gasoline more efficient for their application

WTF is wrong with people in this thread?

E85 tunes result in more power because you can flow more fuel than with pump gas. You can flow more fuel because it resists knock and you can increase timing. The OP even stated that he upgraded injectors...

Yes on a per mass basis, it contains less energy. Yes it will result in lower fuel mileage because of this. But you can and will get more power from E85 period.

Are you a high school physics teacher?

 

someone else's application may be better fuel economy, making gasoline more efficient for their application

Or they could go buy a Yaris or any number of other cars appropriate for good fuel economy. The legacy is not a fuel efficient vehicle and if you want fuel efficiency you've posted in the wrong thread, and, as it turns out, the wrong car forum.