2007 Legacy 2.5i Tuned for E85

Hello all -- I recently went through hell getting my N/A Legacy a bit faster, but it was worth it.

 

 

I had to write my own RomRaider defintions for my car, ended up bricking the ECU once, but finally got tuned for E85 by MAC Autosport.

 

My mods are as follows:

 

Koni Yellow Struts/Rallitek Spring Combo

Perrin Lightweight Crank Pulley

Resonator and Rear Cat Delete

HFC in place of the Front Cat

Self-Made 3" Intake with Perrin MAF Housing

750cc/min RC Engineering Injectors

E85 Tune with Timing Advance of up to Ten Degrees and Enriched AFR's

Exedy Stage 1 Clutch

 

I got re-dyno'd today with all the mods and (with IAT SAE Correction for heatsoak) put down 158.33HP/161.52Ft-Lb Torque to the wheels (SAE Correction factor of 1.43 due to altitude, humidity, and engine heatsoak).

 

 

I exported the DynoJet data to Excel to make it a bit prettier and to compare to stock (I got a stock 2006 2.5i dyno off of this forum, but I didn't have the source file). The Dyno read 140.32HP/142.99TQ With Atmospheric Correction -- but unfortunately, we don't drive around with our hoods wide open with a fan blowing straight on it and the air filter .

 

Compare to the ~133/133 stock HP/TQ, that's pretty good...

 

 

Here's the pretty dyno plot of Stock vs. After:

 

http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff279/laplacexformofs/AfterMod.jpg

 

 

 

Here's one of Just E85 vs. Everything:

 

http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff279/laplacexformofs/BeforeAfter.jpg

 

I want to hear about what other 2.5i owners have been able to get! From what I read, this is pretty much as fast as anyone's gotten so far -- I'm pretty stoked! Feel free to chime in!

OOOO!

Nice, I don't think too many people have dynod there legacies to get some solid results. Looks like some good improvements though! Now only if we could tune other years easily..

 

Any pics of the intake? Also it seems like stock catback? Though I hear it is adequate enough for anything our car puts out.

o man i want to tune my 08 2.5i so badly.

o man i want to tune my 08 2.5i so badly.

 

 

The 2008 2.5i has RomRaider definitions -- it's just a matter of filling up with E85 and getting tuned using OpenPort!

 

Sulk:

 

Thanks! I'll get pictures of the intake ASAP. With regard to the exhaust, the midpipe is the only thing that got changed. On stock 2.5i's there's two cats; one right behind the O2 sensor and another olive oil can-shaped one about 6" behind it -- I removed the olive oil can one and had a Magnaflow High Flow one installed in place of the one right by the O2 sensor. Unfortunately, without the resonator, standing revs sound REALLY BAD (like worse than a Honda with a Cherry Bomb muffler), but the intake kind of evens things out when cruising/accelerating -- it's much deeper and rumbly-like.

 

Edit:

 

There is one disclaimer with the intake -- I did have to adjust the fuel tables to get the intake to run at the correct AFR -- with no tuning, the intake WILL make your car run REALLY LEAN!

Very nice! We don't have E85 available up here yet, did you have to replace/upgrade any of your fuel system besides the injectors? I've heard stories about how the ethanol is corrosive and can eat away at aluminum components if they are not anodized or otherwise treated on the inside where it contacts the fuel (fuel rails, etc), leading to clogged fuel filters and injectors...hopefully they are just stories, lol.

Very nice! We don't have E85 available up here yet, did you have to replace/upgrade any of your fuel system besides the injectors? I've heard stories about how the ethanol is corrosive and can eat away at aluminum components if they are not anodized or otherwise treated on the inside where it contacts the fuel (fuel rails, etc), leading to clogged fuel filters and injectors...hopefully they are just stories, lol.

 

 

I've heard a lot of arguing on different forums about the "corrosive" nature of E-85 -- from what I have heard, it's a myth. Apparently, all cars after like 2001 are made for a decent amount of Ethanol. Pump gas is up to about 15% Ethanol (depending on your state) -- from what I have heard by professionals who tune for E-85, if your car is made to handle 15%, it'll handle 85% without a problem. I have a friend (he's probably on here, actually) that has his LGT and his '02 WRX as well tuned for E-85, and he has never had a problem with fuel lines cracking.

 

For what it's worth, my old 2001 Outback had it's fuel rails split and it was running regular unleaded -- it can really happen to every car!

 

And now, to answer your question -- no I didn't modify my fuel system (other than the injectors) to support E85 Fuel, and so far, have had absolutely no problems with fuel lines/other gaskets.

 

Hope that answers your question.

 

Edit:

 

A little update -- I have managed to squeeze an extra ~2hp and ~3Ft-Lbs of torque out of it with a bit of fine-tuning of the MAF scaling and Open Loop fueling tables, which brings the grand total of 160.18HP @ 5700 RPM, and 163.22Ft-Lbs of Torque at 4500 RPM. This is going to be dyno-verified next week (as of now, I used my previous dyno log to generate a "road dyno" in order to do road tuning, which yielded a RPM vs HP/Torque gain sheet that I applied to the baseline after-tune dyno)

 

 

http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff279/laplacexformofs/gains.jpg

Hello!!

 

I'm interested by your tuning, but do you have some picture and some explication. i just want how to do it.

 

Sorry for my english, i am from quebec in canada and i speak french!

 

Thanks a lot!

The 2008 2.5i has RomRaider definitions -- it's just a matter of filling up with E85 and getting tuned using OpenPort!

 

yea i know. i remember reading that the 08 2.5i is supported but i gotta double check if its the PZEV or if it makes any difference, cause i have a PZEV . also i'd like to learn to tune myself. only thing is, you can read, read, read, but theres nothing like having a friend with experience because tuning can be expensive if you blow something up .

Impressive work! What does the butt-dyno say?

Unfortunately, I have been doing some research about stock Subaru SOHC dyno's and am REALLY skeptical about the guy getting 145hp off of an intake. I am tuned for what is basically 110 octane race fuel, have the exact same intake as him, and have an exhaust, and the dyno (same dyno model as him) says 141HP/144TQ to the wheels.

 

 

If there is anyone here who wants to help me out a great deal, I need to have someone with a fourth-generation Legacy 2.5i to get their stock car dynoed (preferably on a DynoJet dyno). I am having a little bit of trouble finding people with our cars around Denver that are willing to subject their stock car to the stress of a dyno run.

 

The only run that I have found that is somewhat reasonable is the person on here who says their '09 is pushing 108HP/118TQ to the wheels. If anyone can verify these results, that would be AWESOME!

 

 

Impressive work! What does the butt-dyno say?

 

 

It's like night and day -- I realize now how slow our cars are when they're stock...

Hello!!

 

I'm interested by your tuning, but do you have some picture and some explication. i just want how to do it.

 

Sorry for my english, i am from quebec in canada and i speak french!

 

Thanks a lot!

 

 

Unfortunately, tuning a car is not easy -- there are many parameters to change and even a small change done incorrectly can be catastrophic to the car (it can make the engine unusable). I have learned a little bit about it (mainly scaling the Mass Airflow Sensor to get my Air/Fuel Ratio's where they should be). The general idea for tuning for E85 is to make the car's Lambda sensor see the almost 8:1 E85 AFR's as the standard 14.7 for gasoline.

 

 

This is done by reducing the Injector Scaling to trick the car into thinking that when the car gives the same pulse width to the injectors (say, 5ms), it's getting the same AFR (5ms with 263cc/min injectors gives fewer grams of fuel than 5ms with 750cc/min injectors).

 

 

The rest is about fixing the airflow problems that this creates and to enrich the Open Loop (basically, WOT) tables at the higher loads. The other parameter to change is the timing, which you can get about 7.5 more degrees Before Top Dead Center (or BTDC) due to the higher octane.

 

I definitely don't speak French, but I do speak Spanish as well. The following is the Spanish translation.

 

Hacer <<Tuning>> al coche no es facil - hay muchas parametros que pueden romper el motor. Mas o menos, lo que hacemos es escalar los injectores a un valor menos que lo que los injectores fluyen actualmente. Por ejemplo - yo escalo mis injectores a casi 510cc/min y actualmente fluyen a 750cc/min. Lo que hace eso es aguantar al coche que el racion de E85 (8.0:1) es exactamente igual al racion de gasolina (14.7:1).

 

Lo resto es arreglar las problemas que incitan cuando se escala los injectores, haciendo la mezcla de gasolina mas rico, y avanzar el tiempo de combustion (approx. 7.5 grados mas que antes).

 

 

Hope this helped!

Interesting results...

Why such big injectors though, you could of got away with just GT stockers?

Interesting results...

Why such big injectors though, you could of got away with just GT stockers?

 

 

It was easier to put new injectors in rather than someone's used ones...I probably could have used LGT ones, but I wanted the RC Engineering ones anyway.

 

 

Update:

 

I replaced most of the midpipe with 2.5" stainless tubing and put on new mufflers and have (unofficially) gained about 10 more HP after 4000RPM. I will be verifying this soon on the actual dyno rather than still relying on road dyno's (even though they have proven to be very accurate).

Interesting results...

Why such big injectors though, you could of got away with just GT stockers?

 

E85 requires a lot more injector than normal fuel from what I've seen.

 

Glad to hear you got good results, I'll be etuning my car via opensource once my VAGCOM cable shows up, can't wait!

E85 requires a lot more injector than normal fuel from what I've seen.

 

Glad to hear you got good results, I'll be etuning my car via opensource once my VAGCOM cable shows up, can't wait!

Being that i've tuned a bunch of E85 powered vehicles, I know that....

Being that i've tuned a bunch of E85 powered vehicles, I know that....

 

And now I know that, lol!

 

Are you saying the LGT injectors should be enough for an NA 2.5 on E85 then? I haven't seen a lot of NA guys tune for E85 so far, just turbo guys and they seem to need a LOT of injector.

And now I know that, lol!

 

Are you saying the LGT injectors should be enough for an NA 2.5 on E85 then? I haven't seen a lot of NA guys tune for E85 so far, just turbo guys and they seem to need a LOT of injector.

Yes GT injectors would be enough, especially at altitude. To run E85 you approximately 30% more fuel give or take a few percent.

Another Update:

 

I finished dialing in the car and pretty much maxed out the engine's power/torque.

 

Numbers:

 

145.13wHP

147.36wTQ

 

...on a DynoJet Dyno with an SAE correction factor (from the weather station on the dyno) of 1.27.

 

We also dyno'd a stock 2007 2.5i; it ran:

 

124.63wHP

130.64wTQ

 

SAE 1.27.

 

 

Actual Dyno Printout of Mine (SAE 1.27):

 

http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff279/laplacexformofs/legacy.jpg

 

Actual Dyno Printout of the Stock One:

 

http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff279/laplacexformofs/stock2007-1.jpg

 

 

Excel Comparison with Run Conditions:

 

http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff279/laplacexformofs/comparison.jpg

 

 

Gains:

 

http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff279/laplacexformofs/gains-1.jpg

hmmm i want a tune.. how much did everything end up costing? and why e85..just curious

E85 is essentially race gas at the pump.

E85 is essentially race gas at the pump.

 

 

EXACTLY! If only it was closer to my house the nearest pump is 2 hrs away (me fail)

Update: I have the car pulling at about 154hp/157ft-lb with some fine-tuning on the timing...

 

 

Just in case you guys were wondering -- my N/A Legacy is pushing as much torque as a stock 02-05 WRX!!!

: < i wish we had more e85 here