3.6R AEM + HKS vs AFE Takeda + HKS

2013 Subaru Legacy 3.6r intake dyno AFE Takeda HKS funnel vs AEM filter and HKS funnel

 

TR-4304P (complete kit)

TF-9012D (cone filter in case you need to replace it)

21-206DK (AEM cone as close as I could find)

 

Preliminary information: I have a custom exhaust on the car. The dyno numbers are not from intake mods alone.

 

The first dyno is the OEM airbox with HKS funnel and AEM panel filter. The HKS funnel is not a filter. It is just what it says "funnel". It guides air into the box from underneath. This air is about 3 degrees cooler than the air entering the snorkel in the front of the car. This information was provided in 2010 by an outback 3.6R owner who measured intake temperatures.

 

The second dyno is the AFE Takeda intake with the HKS funnel. I wanted as much air to the TB as possible. No, it would not be better to leave the OEM "milk-jug" on there, and the MAF sensor is not "overloaded" with too much air it can't handle.

 

The takeda piece replaces the top half of the airbox, gets rid of the soft rubbery baffled intake tube, and replaces it with a solid tube.

 

With the takeda tube, you can hear a lot more engine noise beginning around 4000 rpm and 3/4 to full throttle all the way to redline.

 

For now, biggest gains are between 4500rpm and 5250rpm

 

Looks like "max" torque went up around 3wtq while "max" hp went up by 2.2whp. I should have done an overlay, but it looks like gains are pretty much across the rpm range.

 

I gained 7whp/7wtq at 5250.

 

I have a tendency to look at the 5250rpm number. It was around 203 previously and is now 210.

 

If you go to the AFE website and look at their dyno, all the gains are between 5,000 and redline. I was able to see gains before 5,000rpm as my max torque is at 4000 rpm.

 

The afe intake box top half has a big slit and several holes that are undesired. The silicone couplers are a bit flimsy. I blocked off the holes and covered the slit. I have ordered HPS couplers at 5mm thickness to replace the ones that were provided.

 

Edited Jan 30, 2014: I mated the OEM top half of the airbox to the Takeda intake tube and tested the results. I lost about 4whp just using the OEM tube with baffles. So, I went back to my original setup.

 

Edited Jan 24, 2014: At the moment, with half a tank of gas, I can do a zero to sixty (0-60) in 6.052 using "Car Performance" app. In stock form, the car managed a 6.5 ish. I still haven't gotten around to using Torque Pro. If you are comparing it to a magazine tested time, you can figure 5.8 seconds as I'm not using a 1 foot rollout.

 

Edited Jan 30, 2014: The couplers provided by AFE were not up to par. The coupler wasn't horrible because there was almost no space between the end of the pipe and the Throttle Body. So, it was completely supported by metal.

 

However, the elbow between the box and pipe has a 3" run in which it is not supported at all. I could easily squeeze it with my fingers. So, I opted for HPS couplers that are 5mm thick. You can see the difference between the HPS couplers and the "generic" ones that AFE/Takeda supplied. Buy yourself the "HPS 3" (76mm) 4-ply Reinforced High Temp 45 Degree Elbow Coupler Silicone Hose Black". It was $53 on Amazon. I didn't know before, but I can save you a few bucks. You don't have to order a straight coupler. You need to cut off 3" from each end of the HPS 45 because it is too long. You can use one of the 3" pieces as the coupler between the tube and TB.

 

The other item that bothered me was the multiple tiny holes on the box and a seam that was not closed. Two edges of metal came together in a 90 and didn't strap to each other. I filled in the holes and caulked the seam. I sprayed plasti dip to coat what I covered.

 

Still, where the box meets up with the OEM bottom half, it is not perfect. I'll look into that later.

 

Edited February 7, 2014: I changed the AFE cone for an AEM cone. The AEM cone is just a bit bigger. This is my second attempt at a HAHA intake. I will stick with this setup.

 

I gained 2.2whp and lost maybe 1wtq. AFR was running around 11. So, still rich, but not hurting.

 

The last pic is the dyno with AEM cone with the AFE box and tube.

What have you done besides exhaust? And is it a catback or what?

 

 

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Looks like you need a tune badly. No reason for an n/a car to run anywhere near that rich.

What have you done besides exhaust? And is it a catback or what?

 

 

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http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/2013-legacy-3-6r-intake-and-exhaust-dyno-not-tuned-218192.html

Looks like you need a tune badly. No reason for an n/a car to run anywhere near that rich.

 

I want one badly but deciding on who and what method...maybe three to six months away. Im glad I am not running lean.

I was able to make the afe tube fit the OEM box. Dyno will be sometime this week...most likely Wednesday or Thursday.

 

http://legacygt.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4710487&postcount=7321

Id ditch that entire setup revert back to stock, if you could somehow log MAFv i bet you'd have a stroke. Until you find a tune of course then you can adjust things properly, but you dont want to run that rich for an extended period of time.

Id ditch that entire setup revert back to stock, if you could somehow log MAFv i bet you'd have a stroke. Until you find a tune of course then you can adjust things properly, but you dont want to run that rich for an extended period of time.

 

I have contemplated going to stock intake and exhaust. But, those moments of sobriety dont last very long.

 

Unfortunately, there is no A/F reading for my baseline so I cant come out and say it is unchanged. I can tell you that my mileage has not changed.

 

Does it really seem too rich? Or, is it rich enough to warrant a tune but it isnt going to hurt anything? 13:1 would be good. 12:1 is acceptable. I am at just under 11.5.

 

Am I looking at unburnt fuel messing up my cat and leaving deposits on my valves?

Forgive my ignorance, but wouldn't more air flow cause your car to run lean and not rich? Or is it because of the custom exhaust?

Oh, and how would I check?

Forgive my ignorance, but wouldn't more air flow cause your car to run lean and not rich? Or is it because of the custom exhaust?

 

The sky is not falling.

 

If you are not seeing an increase in fuel consumption (other than being a lead foot) then you are not running richer than stock.

 

Edit: I just looked back at my hks/aem intake setup and A/F was around 11:1. Adding my exhaust increased that to around 11.5:1 which is slightly leaner. It is safe to say we run rich from the factory and our add ons are leaning it out slightly but nowhere near ideal. You are fine.

 

If you are not seeing an increase in fuel consumption (other than being a lead foot) then you are not running richer than stock.

.

 

Actually, I think it's the opposite, my MPGs have gone up slightly. But it's really hard to tell with all the extra idling done in the winter.

Actually, I think it's the opposite, my MPGs have gone up slightly. But it's really hard to tell with all the extra idling done in the winter.

 

Then it is quite possibly running not quite as rich as stock, but I don't believe you are running lean with an intake. With intake and exhaust I was still in the very safe zone.

 

When I dyno the HAHA intake with my exhaust, I'll try to get the A/F reading as well. After comparing my intake only and my intake/exhaust dynos, I kinow I am not running richer. I am running not as rich but nowhere near lean.

 

Cheers!

I dyno'd the oem box with HKS funnel and AEM panel with AFE tube. The car did not like it.

 

In fact, Shrek just wasn't himself and made 4whp less than I would if I had used the factory tube with the giant warts growing on it. Solid pipe with OEM top half doesn't work very well.

 

So...the HAHA intake was good for a laugh and back in will go the AFE setup with the HKS funnel. This time with HPS connectors, and after I plug things up properly.

 

My take is: If you are not going for a tune, you can do the hybrid setup for $150 and get decent gains across the board. Or, you can do the AFE/HKS for $330 and get 2whp and 3wtq more than the hybrid setup.

 

I don't know what the AFE alone would do, and no one has a before and after tune information for either setup.

Man that seems like a lot of work for $250 intake. Maybe I'm spoiled with previous Iceman and K&N CIA but those just fit perfect. No mods needed.

 

Did you get a bad kit?

Man that seems like a lot of work for $250 intake. Maybe I'm spoiled with previous Iceman and K&N CIA but those just fit perfect. No mods needed.

 

Did you get a bad kit?

 

Don't get me wrong. I think it's worth it to have. I just wish they paid a little more attention to some parts like the connectors and at least the one seam.

 

K&N, for example has some kits where you have a completely enclosed cone both front and rear.

 

If you are gonna suck in hot air then don't even bother with a shield. How much of a difference does it make? Dunno. Is it better. Sure.

 

Cheers!

First post updated with dyno using HAHA intake (take 2).

 

2.2whp gain and 1 maybe 2wtq loss. I'll take the gain in the upper range.