Questions about dealer repairs/service

A couple of questions.

I have a 2016 2.5i premium Legacy with 39,000 miles.

Back in February I was rear-ended by a Tesla Model 3. I had the car repaired at my subaru dealership (technically it's the lexus collision center that's part of the same dealership). They did about $6000 worth of work that they charged to the other guys insurance, including replacing metal bumper support and connections to frame, and straightening some "minor" frame damage. They also did a 4 wheel alignment since the bumper had hit the tire very lightly. Looking at the alignment sheet they gave me the only thing in red before alignment was rear right toe was 0.26 and 0.25 is the limit. Everything was in green after alignment.

After getting the car back it pulled to the right. It did NOT pull to the right before the accident, enough pull that if you let go of steering wheel it changes lanes to the right within a short block. Due to coronavirus lockdown, I didn't get a chance to take it back in until now. I've only driven maybe 200-300 miles since I got it back after the accident.

When I took it back they claimed the reason it is pulling to the right is my front outer tie rod ends are leaking grease and need to be replaced, they showed me a picture of them leaking.

So I took it over to the service center. The service center said it was the front outer tie rods and also the sway bar links.

Question #1 Is it somehow possible the accident caused the front end damage? Is it possible just driving over potholes has caused that damage due to normal wear and tear? I drive on the potholed city streets of south florida. This seems early to have do tie rods, and sway bar links seem like something rarely replaced? Any other reasons why these might need to be replaced? is there some reason they would say that's the issue to cover for something that's actually wrong with the back end? (although I can't see why that would make sense because if I do front end work and it doesn't fix the problem obviously I'm going to come right back.

The service center then quoted me $1,439 plus tax. for work.

Both Front sway bar end links $189.

Both outer tie rods $258

4 wheel Alignment $129.95

Rear brakes $329

resurface rotors

2 Tires $350 plus $66 balance

$129 for each tire leaving approximately $92 labor

Oil change w/tire rotation $119 (They usually charge me $100)

This seemed a bit excessive

Question #2 Does this seem reasonable? I thought this sounded a bit excessive, I took some time to investigate what things should cost and they offered me a discount. $92 for labor and $66 for balancing seems really excessive for 2 tires?

When I called back the service advisor (my normal advisor who so far has been good to me is on vacation). Offered to give me the oil change for free, and because I'd had work done at the collision center already to give me a loyalty discount and do the tie rods and sway bar end links for free.

That knocked the price to $899 for everything.

Question #3 Does it make sense that I'd need rear brakes before having ever done front brakes?

Question #4 I replaced 2 tires after driving over a piece of metal @12,000 miles. Does it make sense to only replace the 2 original tires with 39,000 miles on them? or should I be replacing all 4 since the other 2 have 27,000 miles now (they have more tread than the worn out ones for sure). Is it weird they didn't suggest 4 tires?

Question #5 If I end up going with 4 tires should I stick with original goodyear fuelmax tires that seem to last a decent amount? or would you switch to costcos Michelin - Pilot Sport A/S 3+ for $196 per tire or Michelin - Primacy MXM4 for $192 per tire. *including installation.

Thanks in advance for any help you can give me!

I don't know sounds like you might have a few things there that I would question if it were me. First the easy answer, on my car the rear breaks needed to be done before the fronts. But when it came time to do them I did them myself. As for the end links I had to replace mine when I lifted the car as getting off the OEMs was not going to happen nicely and would require mangling them. That was the only reason I had them replace. You say that you drive in Florida streets with potholes...? How many times have you hit a pothole and was it on both sides? I had done in 2 sets of front tires the first year here in NJ but that was due to the fact it was the first year of the 6th gen and I figured the tires were also newly developed and still has bugs to be worked out. This year I changed course and put on snows for the winter and all terrains to get a different look. I was not happy with the Goodyear's mileage they were terrible.

I would recommend getting a second opinion. If you have a trusted mechanic I would let them check out the front end. Or as it seems you are in need of new tires take your car to a tire shop. They should inspect the car including the front end as they would need to do an 4 wheel alignment and would bring up the tie rods during inspection if there is something wrong with them just don't mention it to them let them see if they see something wrong. Final thought is to wait for the service writer you trust at your dealer to come off vacation... Hope this helps

I don't know sounds like you might have a few things there that I would question if it were me. First the easy answer, on my car the rear breaks needed to be done before the fronts. But when it came time to do them I did them myself. As for the end links I had to replace mine when I lifted the car as getting off the OEMs was not going to happen nicely and would require mangling them. That was the only reason I had them replace. You say that you drive in Florida streets with potholes...? How many times have you hit a pothole and was it on both sides? I had done in 2 sets of front tires the first year here in NJ but that was due to the fact it was the first year of the 6th gen and I figured the tires were also newly developed and still has bugs to be worked out. This year I changed course and put on snows for the winter and all terrains to get a different look. I was not happy with the Goodyear's mileage they were terrible.

I would recommend getting a second opinion. If you have a trusted mechanic I would let them check out the front end. Or as it seems you are in need of new tires take your car to a tire shop. They should inspect the car including the front end as they would need to do an 4 wheel alignment and would bring up the tie rods during inspection if there is something wrong with them just don't mention it to them let them see if they see something wrong. Final thought is to wait for the service writer you trust at your dealer to come off vacation... Hope this helps

Well it's good to hear, at least anecdotally, that that rear brakes can wear faster than fronts on a legacy, given on normal fwd/rwd cars the front brakes usually wear almost twice as fast. How many miles did you get out of your rear/front brakes?

I should clarify. I hit small potholes all the time and a big one occasionally, just the nature of the roads here, they are impossible to avoid completely, especially near construction zones where often there's no room to swerve. The 2 tires I had replaced @ 12,000 miles was due to a hunk of metal the size of a baseball that also bent the 2 left rims causing me to have to replace the wheels as well. Trucks and people here have a terrible habit of not securing things in the back and just dropping random stuff everywhere in the streets.

I'd say the goodyears have been good on mine given the original 2 have 39,000 miles, and if I really wanted to I could probably have kept them till the next oil change without them being dangerous on tread yet. and the replacements with 27,000 miles look pretty good on tread. I always feel wasteful throwing away 2 tires that might easily have as much as another 10,000-23,000 miles on them. but...It's obviously not worth destroying the awd system. Mostly the 2 vs. 4 tires question, I'm asking because my uncle whos owned many subarus claims it's bad for the AWD system if the tires circumference differs too much. not sure how true that is or not, or where the line is for how much they can differ.

Burning the tread off 2 sets of tires in a year seems extreme, unless you drive some crazy high miles, then again I drive fairly cautiously and gently most of the time. But if I burned through a set of tires that fast I'd #1 file a warranty claim on them and #2 check to make sure something wasn't wrong with my suspension, unless you mean you just punctured them.

Maybe it’s an awd thing with the rear brakes?

2015 Subaru Legacy 3.6R

Rear brakes done at 54k miles

Front brakes done at 67k miles

Cheaper to do them yourself

2018 BMW 430i xDrive (their version of awd)

Rear brakes done at 48k miles

Front brakes today at 65k miles. Just waiting for the sun to come up

I paid $187 for the rotors and pads. Dealership wanted $600 to do it. Lol

Well it's good to hear, at least anecdotally, that that rear brakes can wear faster than fronts on a legacy ...

That's a pretty well established fact for 2015-2019 Legacy and Outback. The primary suspects are Electronic Brake Force Distribution and EyeSight/ACC.

... my uncle whos owned many subarus claims it's bad for the AWD system if the tires circumference differs too much. not sure how true that is or not, or where the line is for how much they can differ.

That's a pretty well established fact for 2015-2019 Legacy and Outback. The primary suspects are Electronic Brake Force Distribution and EyeSight/ACC.

 

The spec published by Subaru is no more than 1/4 inch difference in tire circumference, measured at the center of the tread. Different tire circumferences result in constant slipping (and heat generation) in the Multiplate Transfer Clutch.

I don't have eyesight, but I obviously have EBD. what's ACC?

So I spoke with the service advisor again, and she said my original 2 tires with 39,000 miles are at "3/10" and my 2 tires I replaced @ 12,000 miles are at "7/10" and that their system is as long as they are within 3 its fine. So I would be 10/10 and 7/10 after replacing 2. I asked what are those 10'ths of an inch? millimeters? she said no they rate them on a 10 point scale. I've never heard of such a thing.

She said the same thing about a 10 point scale for brakes

Told me my front brakes are 5/10 and rears are 3/10.

Has anyone ever heard of this system? is there anyway to convert it to an actual measurement? lol

I've never thought of tires in terms of circumference, only in mm of tread remaining. a 1/4 inch sounds like it would be pretty small. hmm doing a little research brought me to https://www.tirerack.com/tires/tiretech/techpage.jsp?techid=18

where they say

"Subaru Within 1/4-inch of tire circumference or about 2/32-inch of each other in remaining tread depth."

Is it really possible I haven't used up more than 2/32 in 26,000miles? Although it seems odd the dealer didn't jump at the chance to sell me 4 tires when I said I was open to it.

I ended up so far agreeing to do all the work with 2 tires for $900.

Does it make sense to always resurface the rotors when you do brake pads like the dealership claimed they do? I've never resurfaced rotors on other cars I've owned only replaced rotors that had gone bad, although I will say at times I had brakes that definitely made some noise but usually it was later near the end of the cars life with me so I never bothered fixing it.

If the rotors and pads are $187 than I guess $330 isn't too outrageous for doing the work, although still on the high side. $600 is nuts, if they'd asked $600 I definitely would've gone to my local mechanic instead, even if he isn't a subaru expert, it's not like the brakes are any different than any others cars.

Yea it's always cheaper to do it yourself, but I've learned what I am and am not qualified to do myself, lol. 1 too many times having to have my car towed to mechanic to fix something I broke or got stuck in half way through the job because I end up not having the right tool, or can't get some rusted part unstuck.

In my case if I recall I had service done to mine at the dealer and when working on my car rotating the tires from rear to front they were unevenly warn on the inside of the tire. My dealer missed it the previous time I had it in for an oil change so I went back to them and they had no explanation since their check off sheet noted the tires were fine. I am not ready to say all dealers as shysters but I can say that some individuals might exaggerate a problem in order to get you to let them fix it. Same dealer put non-synthetic oil in after I requested synthetic only. Like you both these situations were done by a specific service writer and not the guy who I felt was taking care of me before these incidents. So if I have to go to the dealer I only deal with the same guy unless I have no choice. When that happens I scrutinize everything.

I hope it wasn't non-synthetic oil in the 6th gen 4 cylinder, it specially requires synthetic. I'd say you'd have the right to be severely po'ed if that happened.

... what's ACC?

Adaptive Cruise Control, one of the features provided by EyeSight.

... their system is as long as they are within 3 its fine.

I asked what are those 10'ths of an inch? millimeters? she said no they rate them on a 10 point scale. I've never heard of such a thing.

 

She said the same thing about a 10 point scale for brakes

...

Has anyone ever heard of this system? is there anyway to convert it to an actual measurement?

I've never thought of tires in terms of circumference, only in mm of tread remaining. a 1/4 inch sounds like it would be pretty small.

Does it make sense to always resurface the rotors when you do brake pads like the dealership claimed they do?

I hope it wasn't non-synthetic oil in the 6th gen 4 cylinder, it specially requires synthetic. I'd say you'd have the right to be severely po'ed if that happened.

Nope I have the 3.6R version but I had to visit my dealer today on my way home from work. The guy I delt with no longer works as a service writer but he is still in the shop and I did get to talk to him as well. I stopped by because my Check Engine light came on and killed my Eye Sight system. The current service writer told me that is what happens to the Eye Sight system when the check engine light comes on.. did not know that. So he checked the codes and said the code thrown indicates a delay response from the Cam sensor...? He said that sometimes they get "dirty oil" on the and it messes with their response time where the ECM throws the error code. Since I am due for an oil change he reset the ECM and me changing the oil should make it OK but to watch it. NO charge for the reset and system diagnosis. He did not pressure me to have them do the oil change.