What turbo? wiki... with a twist

Is it a bad idea to buy a bigger, more capable turbo and just not max out its potential until I can support it.

 

I'm wanting to get something capable of 400+, but I don't want that much power until I can get the funds for a 6 speed swap, and then back up funds for a built short block.

 

I was considering a vf52 or 18g setup on e85 for now, 18psi max. Then later I'd like to turn it up some more. Should I buy one better turbo now, or just go ahead and get a vf52 and sell that when it comes time to upgrade?

A VF-52 is not going to do 400whp on anything but the most optimistic dyno, neither is an 18G.

 

Note that a lot of the billet compressor turbos only really come alive past 18psi. So you can run them at low boost but they feel a bit wooden. High performance aftermarket turbos just need to be run at higher boost to do their thing. Fact of life.

 

The smallest turbo I can think of that had 400whp potential is the old FP 68HTA, which is discontinued. After that, 1.5XTR. If you can deal with something not direct fit, EFR6758.

 

There's always a market for a good used VF-52.

Is it a bad idea to buy a bigger, more capable turbo and just not max out its potential until I can support it.

 

I'm wanting to get something capable of 400+, but I don't want that much power until I can get the funds for a 6 speed swap, and then back up funds for a built short block.

 

I was considering a vf52 or 18g setup on e85 for now, 18psi max. Then later I'd like to turn it up some more. Should I buy one better turbo now, or just go ahead and get a vf52 and sell that when it comes time to upgrade?

It depends on how long you will want that 400+whp. 1 year, 2 years or longer? My goal is 400whp as a daily and knew i was going to get supporting mods etx. This fall will be 2 years since ive been tuned on the steamspeed stx71. I must admit i am patient though. After getting stage 2 tune (stock turbo, elh, fuel, ebcs pump, intake, cobb ap) i enjoyed it for 1 year before i pulled the trigger on a 400whp stx71 ewg, ID1000s and a retune. Now that the 2 year mark is nearing i am going to pull the trigger on a e85 tune then see how long that will last. Built Shortblock soon to get and then retune again.

 

If i could turn back time i would get custom vf52 by jmp or reuben at socalporting and probably would be a happy camper. But i am always hungry for a but more power and like being a sleeper. Who knows...i may decide on getting a different turbo later down the line. Especially after seeing some the BCP x500 turbo plots. I plan on staying stock location. Decisions decisions...hope this helps you some.

 

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My 6758 is awesome as a daily. If you know a guy who likes to weld, or even contact tigwerks (quoted me a 1k shipped with heat coating), its a great route if you haven't yet gone stage 2. Its like a vf52 down low and dom 1.5 up top. If not, the bcp x500 looks like the new hotness.

M

 

 

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Wont a larger turbo flow more and provide your target WHP at a lower boost then a smaller turbo being maxed out to get to your target?

 

I ask because I installed a VF52 but now I'm looking to switch to a TD06-20G

Wont a larger turbo flow more and provide your target WHP at a lower boost then a smaller turbo being maxed out to get to your target?

 

I ask because I installed a VF52 but now I'm looking to switch to a TD06-20G

 

Yes, but we have only so many revs and few enjoy lag. 20g is not 400hp (20g xtr is). And if you are not built for 400hp but running a turbo capable of that, its probably not going to feel as engaging to drive as a smaller turbo. Hey may not even reach full boost depending on the turbo and fuel mods.

Wont a larger turbo flow more and provide your target WHP at a lower boost then a smaller turbo being maxed out to get to your target?

 

I ask because I installed a VF52 but now I'm looking to switch to a TD06-20G

 

If you were closer I'd give you a ride in my wagon, the vf52 on stock fueling is a very fun and reliable car. with fueling, it must be more fun. But I can't justify the cost for a little more fun, at this point.

The only way to be solid and hit the numbers I want on a vf52 is to use e85 and only one fuel station in town had it the next one is over 15 miles away.. so e85 not a option for me.

nice write up!

Thanks a ton! I’m have just upgraded to a V52 and I need a few other supporting mods.

Let me check for understanding here, by proposing a sample build, please?

Stock internals

Stock intake

upgraded fuel pump

clutch upgrades or 6mt

vf52 w/stock exhaust manifolds, catless up pipe, DP, stock mufflers or semi-restrictive aftermarket.

Upgraded intercooler (have one, not sure what it is but, is not stock)

Stock airbox?

Good tune by a competent shop

 

A decent recipe for a responsive and fun engine?

Edited October 17, 2019 by pdXammo

Here's my set up

ej257 short block

ARP head studs

heads rebuilt

stock fueling

vf52

catless up pipe

catted DP

stock mid pipe

Grimmspeed tmic

stock intake system

K&N panel filter lightly oiled

clean MAF sensor at least once a year

Amsoil 5w-40 European Classic and their oil filters EA15K13

Spec 2+ clutch

Moore Performance Blast Plated on the 5mt

Moto Gear 300 tranny and rear diff fluid

 

see the click here link in my sig

 

127,000 trouble free mile on the ej257 so far

 

Oh yeah, most important part, Great Tune from tuningalliance@gmail.com

Edited October 17, 2019 by Max Capacity

I had an 18g, full fuel (injectors and pump), KS tech stock diameter intake, perrin TMIC, aftermarket inlet, catted dp. and probably something else on my spec.

Let me check for understanding here, by proposing a sample build, please?

Stock internals

Stock intake

upgraded fuel pump

clutch upgrades or 6mt

vf52 w/stock exhaust manifolds, catless up pipe, DP, stock mufflers or semi-restrictive aftermarket.

Upgraded intercooler (have one, not sure what it is but, is not stock)

Stock airbox?

Good tune by a competent shop

 

A decent recipe for a responsive and fun engine?

 

you should probably start a thread!

 

you shouldn't post in a sticky unless your actually contributing to it.

Let me check for understanding here, by proposing a sample build, please?

Stock internals

Stock intake

upgraded fuel pump

clutch upgrades or 6mt

vf52 w/stock exhaust manifolds, catless up pipe, DP, stock mufflers or semi-restrictive aftermarket.

Upgraded intercooler (have one, not sure what it is but, is not stock)

Stock airbox?

Good tune by a competent shop

 

A decent recipe for a responsive and fun engine?

 

Your pretty much right there with this set up. As long as the engine is healthy when bumping to stage 2 with the above set up you'll have a super fun street car with decent reliability downrange. Could bump to bigger injectors and you'll get that last 15 HP out of your tune with better, (safer) duty cycles when you're pushing the car but not required. I had a virtually identical set up for 5 or so years and ran my car dual duty daily driver/track car with virtually no issues, (until 8 years of track days finally popped a ring land). Its a good, solid, pretty stealthy set up if you can stick with stock muffs, (I ran a Perrin Mid / Y-pipe with stock muffs for a long time.

So I'm collecting parts for my rebuild right now and I have not decided on what turbo to go with. Here's the list of parts so far, either that I have or am certain I will be getting.

 

Forester XT Catless Uppipe

Invidia Divorced Catless Downpipe

Stock Headers

Stock Catback

DW 850cc Side Feed Injectors

DW 265lph Fuel Pump

Stock Bullet-Proofed Intercooler (looking for used aftermarket ones)

Grimmspeed Intake and Intercooler piping

GFB G-Force III Boost Controller

GFB 50/50 BOV

IAG Side Feed TGV Deletes w/ 8mm Phenolic Spacer

IAG Stage 2.5 Closed Deck Shortblock

Killer B Pan, Tray, and Pickup

 

The goal here is 350-380 whp with a decent streetable powerband. I've been considering the BNR Billet 20G. Is that enough or is it too big? Any recommendations for a better turbo for the price?

 

The stock intercooler seems like it's gonna be a big choke point, but I'm not so worried about the catback.

So I'm collecting parts for my rebuild right now and I have not decided on what turbo to go with. Here's the list of parts so far, either that I have or am certain I will be getting.

 

Forester XT Catless Uppipe

Invidia Divorced Catless Downpipe

Stock Headers

Stock Catback

DW 850cc Side Feed Injectors

DW 265lph Fuel Pump

Stock Bullet-Proofed Intercooler (looking for used aftermarket ones)

Grimmspeed Intake and Intercooler piping

GFB G-Force III Boost Controller

GFB 50/50 BOV

IAG Side Feed TGV Deletes w/ 8mm Phenolic Spacer

IAG Stage 2.5 Closed Deck Shortblock

Killer B Pan, Tray, and Pickup

 

The goal here is 350-380 whp with a decent streetable powerband. I've been considering the BNR Billet 20G. Is that enough or is it too big? Any recommendations for a better turbo for the price?

 

The stock intercooler seems like it's gonna be a big choke point, but I'm not so worried about the catback.

I had an 18g (less lag than a 20), and made 350 whp. 750cc injectors. You don't have to alter the intake in the neighborhood either, unless you're looking for noise. I'd rather get a nice aftermarket IC.

I should have also clarified that my eventual goal is running 11's, so some upward mobility is ideal. See: 265lph Fuel pump and 850cc injectors. How much is the stock intercooler gonna restrict me when it comes to boost?

 

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Would definitely add an air oil separator to your build, Crawford Performance, IAG, etc. Sure you don't want to go top feed? Edited November 6, 2019 by shralp

i'd go with aem 50 1215 fuel pump...

Sure you don't want to go top feed?

 

Well I got a killer deal on the fuel pump and side feed injectors, so that's a big plus for me. Based on the research I've done and talking to my tuner, top feed doesn't increase performance by very much, if at all. I've been reading about stumble issues that people have though and I've considered a parallel setup for that reason. I think stock fuel lines and rails with an aftermarket fuel pressure regulator should be fine?

 

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i'd go with aem 50 1215 fuel pump...

Is there anything wrong with the DeatschWerks unit? I'm okay with getting a new one down the line for more power, it's just that I got mine new in box for $50.

 

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Some of the Tuners have seen issues over time with the dw65c from what I've heard from my Tuner, he got me a AEM 320.