Opie Posted November 12, 2016 Share Posted November 12, 2016 Has anybody installed the CVT cooler from an Outback 3.6R on a Legacy 3.6R? Looks like it should be a pretty simple installation and for about $200 in parts a little extra cooling for those of us that love the paddle shifters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diesel4982 Posted November 12, 2016 Share Posted November 12, 2016 What's the part number on that, I was actually just thinking of that recently Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Opie Posted November 12, 2016 Author Share Posted November 12, 2016 Part numbers for the parts the Legacy doesn't have, or are different as far as I can tell are; 45510AL00A - Cooler Assembly 45522AL00A - Pipe Complete-AT Oil 45520AL01A - Hose 45520AL00A - Hose 010008160 - Flange Bolt (3 Quantity) 909170062 - Hose Clamp (4 Quantity) The CVT fluid hard line between the transmission and the radiator is included to be replaced as the Legacy version does not have the fittings for the cooler hoses. But everything else looks the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
upstater Posted November 12, 2016 Share Posted November 12, 2016 Add in the cost of the CVT fluid, use OEM or have the dealer install and fill it. They used to only sell it in large quantities and it was expensive. I am not sure which fluid you need, and if they sell it by the quart, but it is more expensive than synthetic oil. If you use a different version, make sure it meets all Subaru specs, or they can deny warranty work on the CVT due to the install of the cooler and the use of non-compatible fluid. I was reading a post somewhere recently (NASIOC or here) about someone accidentally draining their CVT instead of pulling the oil drain plug for an oil change, and that was a $9000 bill for a new transmission (not warrantied), since I am imagining this person attempted to drive the car without the correct quantity of CVT fluid in it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Opie Posted November 14, 2016 Author Share Posted November 14, 2016 Going to order all of this tomorrow, should have in time to install next weekend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobbieGT Posted November 14, 2016 Share Posted November 14, 2016 Please do the install in detail, I'm very interested in doing it also. Sent from my SM-N920T using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diesel4982 Posted November 14, 2016 Share Posted November 14, 2016 Going to order all of this tomorrow, should have in time to install next weekend. Yes, please!! Pictures too, if possible. As soon as you post your install, I'm doing it right after. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Opie Posted November 14, 2016 Author Share Posted November 14, 2016 Will do, everything except the feed lines will be in on Wednesday, hopefully the feed lines will be here a day or two later. There were only 2 showing in the country. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Opie Posted November 17, 2016 Author Share Posted November 17, 2016 Everything has arrived, should be good to install this weekend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobbieGT Posted November 19, 2016 Share Posted November 19, 2016 Everything has arrived, should be good to install this weekend. What was your total part price out the door?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Opie Posted November 19, 2016 Author Share Posted November 19, 2016 Good news....got everything installed today, and it all fits like it was supposed to be there. Bad new...the damn 3.6 is designed with no extra room to work, or maneuver, lol. So my hands are a bit chewed up and it took a bit longer than I expected. I took a ton of pictures and will write up a walk through as soon as I can. In addition to the parts I listed above you will also need a crush washer for the CVT fluid fill bolt and 1-2 quarts of the proper CVT fluid from the dealer. Dealer can only get it in 20 liter barrels, but my local dealer will put it in clean quart bottles for you, $14 each. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobbieGT Posted November 20, 2016 Share Posted November 20, 2016 Good news....got everything installed today, and it all fits like it was supposed to be there. Bad new...the damn 3.6 is designed with no extra room to work, or maneuver, lol. So my hands are a bit chewed up and it took a bit longer than I expected. I took a ton of pictures and will write up a walk through as soon as I can. In addition to the parts I listed above you will also need a crush washer for the CVT fluid fill bolt and 1-2 quarts of the proper CVT fluid from the dealer. Dealer can only get it in 20 liter barrels, but my local dealer will put it in clean quart bottles for you, $14 each. Looking forward to this Opie, thanks for all the hard work! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Opie Posted November 20, 2016 Author Share Posted November 20, 2016 OK Just finished the walk through, PDF is available here: 2015-2017 Legacy 3.6R CVT Cooler Install Entire install took about 5 hours, taking my time, taking pictures and taking a few breaks including lunch. Be forewarned, getting the old metal hardline out, and the new metal hardline in place will take patience as it is a very tight fit and needs some finesse to get in place without damaging anything. I'd give it a difficulty rating of 2.5 out of 5. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tigger73 Posted November 20, 2016 Share Posted November 20, 2016 Wow nice write-up. Do you notice any difference? Did you log your CVT oil temps before/after? Was there a reason why you installed the cooler? Towing, etc? I like the fact that this is an OEM upgrade. Nice Tigger73's MY15 2.5i build Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Opie Posted November 20, 2016 Author Share Posted November 20, 2016 Never logged the CVT temps before of after. I mainly installed for peace of mind. I love using the paddle shifters since we can't have a manual here and I was sure that I was heating the fluid more than the Subaru engineers figured. Since it is essentially a factory piece I figured it was worth it to add a measure of protection to the transmission...and most dealers will never notice it since it is factory parts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobbieGT Posted November 20, 2016 Share Posted November 20, 2016 Wow that's a phenomenal walk through, well done Opie! This is something I will be doing in the next few months as I do put the paddles through their paces often Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ammcinnis Posted November 21, 2016 Share Posted November 21, 2016 Never logged the CVT temps before of after. I mainly installed for peace of mind. I love using the paddle shifters since we can't have a manual here and I was sure that I was heating the fluid more than the Subaru engineers figured. I really appreciate the effort you've put into documenting this upgrade. I agree that, in general, excessively high fluid temperatures tend to shorten automatic transmission life ... probably including our CVTs. That said, use of the paddle shifters is unlikely to have a significant effect on CVT fluid temperatures. What will increase CVT fluid temperature is extended operation at the lowest Variator ratio (i.e. "first gear") with the torque converter unlocked ... roughly 0 - 15 mph ... and that's exactly the operating regime of an Outback driving off-road or pulling a heavy trailer in stop-and-go traffic. The torque converter is usually by far the biggest heat source in any automatic transmission design. "If you don't know where you're going, any road will take you there." ~ The Cheshire Cat (Alice in Wonderland) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XT-sub Posted November 21, 2016 Share Posted November 21, 2016 Great write-up. After looking at how & where the pipes are run for the same factory fitted CVT cooler in my Liberty I can appreciate the work you put in. Nicely done – it looks factory fitted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Condor1970 Posted November 21, 2016 Share Posted November 21, 2016 This is getting just downright stupid. They really just need to bring in an optional 6-spd manual. In fact, I think the car would accelerate much better if they had stuck with a 6-speed auto geared tranny. Maybe mileage would suffer a bit. I think that's the main reason Subaru won't sell the manuals or gear transmissions to the US anymore. Virtually all standard sedans, compacts CUV's, and even mini-vans are going to CVT's soon. Probably legal mileage requirements are the main reason. THANKS TO ALL YOU GREEN TREE HUGGING POLITICIANS FOR RUINING OUR LIVES!!! I mean seriously, For Heavens sake, you can drive a few hours up the road to Vancouver and buy a manual 2.5i right across the boarder. They are far cheaper too with the exchange rate. That's a whole different discussion. I even heard in Canada, they can retrofit the 3.6 with a manual on special order. I actually had thought of this. I have a brother-in-law who lives in Canada, and is a Master Mechanic. It would be nice to pick up a 3.6R down here, then buy a 6speed manual from him, and have him install it. Then, sell off the CVT to recoup some cost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diesel4982 Posted January 16, 2017 Share Posted January 16, 2017 Good news....got everything installed today, and it all fits like it was supposed to be there. Bad new...the damn 3.6 is designed with no extra room to work, or maneuver, lol. So my hands are a bit chewed up and it took a bit longer than I expected. I took a ton of pictures and will write up a walk through as soon as I can. In addition to the parts I listed above you will also need a crush washer for the CVT fluid fill bolt and 1-2 quarts of the proper CVT fluid from the dealer. Dealer can only get it in 20 liter barrels, but my local dealer will put it in clean quart bottles for you, $14 each. Hey Opie, I just installed the cvt cooler, thank you so much for that great write up. Once everything was installed, I started the car, went through the gears, and then left it idling to fill with cvt fluid. The thing is it didn't take any..is that normal...I didn't lost any fluid putting the parts in, but it also wouldn't take any more. How much of your two quarts did your car take? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ammcinnis Posted January 16, 2017 Share Posted January 16, 2017 How much of your two quarts did your car take? According to the Factory Service Manual, the Outback (with secondary cooler) requires 0.4 quarts more fluid for the Gen 2 CVT (2.5 engine) than the Legacy (without secondary cooler). The FSM for the G1 CVT (3.6 engine) does not state a difference, but any difference should be less than for the G2 CVT, due to the longer pipes/hoses that need to be installed to add a secondary cooler for the G2 transmission. "If you don't know where you're going, any road will take you there." ~ The Cheshire Cat (Alice in Wonderland) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
upstater Posted January 16, 2017 Share Posted January 16, 2017 I would bring it to a Subaru dealer and have them confirm that the CVT fluid level is fine after your install. If your transmission cooks for any reason (even if unrelated to your install), and you bring it to them with a CVT cooler installed... That thing you just did to preserve your transmission? It just cost you your warranty on it. That is the first and last thing they will look at. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ehsnils Posted January 16, 2017 Share Posted January 16, 2017 I would bring it to a Subaru dealer and have them confirm that the CVT fluid level is fine after your install. If your transmission cooks for any reason (even if unrelated to your install), and you bring it to them with a CVT cooler installed... That thing you just did to preserve your transmission? It just cost you your warranty on it. That is the first and last thing they will look at. Then you can raise the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act on them: Aftermarket parts or modifications: This aspect of warranty coverage has a great deal of gray area. Although many dealers would have you think otherwise, simply having an aftermarket part or modifying your vehicle cannot void your warranty. Some dealerships may say, for example, that just because you have a performance part such as a cold air intake on the car that the whole vehicle warranty is void, says Loren Wong, a car enthusiast and a former warranty administrator for BMW and Acura. "That's not true," he says. The saving grace for consumers is the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act of 1975. The act states that a dealer must prove that aftermarket equipment caused the need for repairs before it can deny warranty coverage. https://www.edmunds.com/auto-warranty/what-voids-your-vehicles-warranty.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
upstater Posted January 16, 2017 Share Posted January 16, 2017 Then you can raise the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act on them: https://www.edmunds.com/auto-warranty/what-voids-your-vehicles-warranty.html Magnuson-Moss allows you to use equivalent non-manufacturer parts in lieu of OEM parts to service your car without the risk of losing your manufacturer warranty, i.e., a Fram oil filter that meets the same specifications as an OEM Subaru oil filter can be substituted when servicing your car (There is a clause, if the manufacturer provides their OEM parts for free, you must use them to maintain your warranty --however no manufacturers seem to have taken up the government on this generous offer). It also means that the manufacturer cannot deny your warranty because you service the car, or have a non-dealer shop service it for you. Magnuson-Moss does not guarantee any warranty on aftermarket modifications you make to your car, or prevent warranty denial if you fail to service the car as outlined in the service manual (i.e., you still have to follow the factory oil change interval and be able to show you did so, so save your receipts if you change your own oil). If you modify any part of your drivetrain Subaru can deny a factory warranty on that portion of the drivetrain, and they often do. In the case of a CVT failure after his cooler install, all they have to say is that the fluid levels were not adequate causing premature failure. You can see how SOA handles warranty claims on modified engines over at NASIOC. Basically, it is pay to play, most of the time SOA and Subaru flag the car once they spot aftermarket modifications, and the engine warranty goes up in smoke. Subaru won't be able to deny a warranty repair on his rear tail light if he has a transmission cooler installed, because there is no direct link between the CVT cooler and the function of the rear rail light. But they sure as shit can deny coverage on the transmission, and odds are good that they will if he brings it to them for a transmission related warranty repair with an aftermarket transmission cooler installed (If you drive an outback that had a transmission cooler installed when you bought it, it is covered under the powertrain warranty). And if, by chance, one of the aftermarket lines springs a leak while he is driving on the highway, draining the CVT, it would not be warrantied, at all. That would not even leave an assumption about the aftermarket part causing the failure. None of this matters if you don't care about the factory warranty on your CVT transmission, which is probably an $8,000+ repair should it need replacement, because dealers now don't even attempt to repair them, they swap in a new transmission. Maybe when CVT's are more common more shops will be capable of cheaper repairs? The real concern isn't the install, it might help add more life to the transmission, the issue is the installer not sure if the CVT fluid level is correct after install. Hell if I know, might want to make sure, because the warranty on the transmission is likely gone. Magnuson-Moss applies to all manufacturer warranties, not just car warranties, but here is the relevant info for cars: https://www.consumer.ftc.gov/articles/0138-auto-warranties-routine-maintenance Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Opie Posted January 17, 2017 Author Share Posted January 17, 2017 Mine took very little, fluid. Maybe an ounce or 2 at most...Should probably update the write up to reflect that. Since this is a OEM part more than likely no dealer would ever ever notice it had been added. Regarding warranty issues...I work at a dealer, regardless of what you see online, SOA rarely denies warranty, in my experience they are more willing to help than any other manufacturer. Even when things are clearly not a warranty issue, SOA will offer assistance. Your mileage may vary at your particular dealer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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