My turn to adjust valve clearances :)

alright. A couple years ago, I sent my 05 to get valve clearance adjusted on driver side (issue was on #4). Since then, car has never really thrown a CEL, but has always had 7-15 counts of misfire roughness in #2 at idle with a warm engine only.

Checked injector, coil, spark plugs. Nothing fixed it. Did a leakdown cold and had 2.5%. No way it is rings.

SO, finally took off the driver side valve cover yesterday, and measured valve clearance (see results below). As you can see, one exhaust valve has almost no clearance at all!! Time to get buckets, or grind them a la heiche style .

http://legacygt.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=210638&d=1434216498

http://legacygt.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=210639&d=1434217024

http://legacygt.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=210640&d=1434217024

This morning, quickly pulled out timing belt, and began taking off the cam sprockets using the timing belt trick to hold them into place. Intake cam sprocket came off without too much trouble. And of course, exhaust cam is not coming off. Even though I was really careful, the cam bolt slowly got damaged . Bolt material is way too soft.

Will have to use some bolt extractor technique or whatever method to get that sucker off. I knew this was coming.. More updates soon.

http://legacygt.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=210641&d=1434217128

Well, great news: exhaust cambolt came off using a bolt extractor from HF ($23 the set). Used 11/16 size. Had to grind a bit the bolt using a dremel. And then, tapped the bolt extractor, used breaker bar and voila! It was not too bad. Happy to report this method works great.

http://legacygt.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=211073&d=1434630867

http://legacygt.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=211074&d=1434630867

Job is done (see my posts on pages 9-10 of this thread). so far so good .

Here, I'll just report the items I bought for a total cost of about $310. Note that I bought a timing belt cover as the one I had was cracked. It was not really needed though. So real cost was about $290. And I could have saved even more if I grinded the buckets 'a la heiche' style.

I also reused my valve cover gaskets. Previous guys did not use rtv, and gaskets only had 10k on them. They looked great. So far, no leaks either.

-pulleys for TB (reused my tensioner and timing belt--both items only have 20k on them) : $127.07

-cost for parts below: 180.42 (with shipping)

1 LIFTER-VALVE . T=4.42 13228AB722 $19.98

1 OIL SEAL 806732160 $4.46

1 OIL SEAL 806742160 $4.46

1 LIFTER-VALVE . T=4.86 13228AB282 $19.98

1 LIFTER-VALVE . T=4.89 13228AB312 $19.98

1 BOLT-CAMSHAFT,SPROCKET 13199AA000 $5.78

1 COVER-BELT NO.2,LEFT 13575AA130 $21.40

1 LIFTER-VALVE . T=4.72 13228AB142 $19.98

1 BOLT-CAMSHAFT,SPROCKET 13199AA010 $1.94

1 LIFTER-VALVE . T=4.91 13228AB332$19.98

1 LIFTER-VALVE . T=4.78 13228AB202 $19.98

wow, that is one tight valve clearance! sounds like you found the source of your misfire!

sorry about the cam sprocket bolt. those things are such a pain! you could try to drill into the center of the bolt with a 21/64" bit just past the head, then try to remove again with 10mm bit.

wow, that is one tight valve clearance! sounds like you found the source of your misfire!

 

sorry about the cam sprocket bolt. those things are such a pain! you could try to drill into the center of the bolt with a 21/64" bit just past the head, then try to remove again with 10mm bit.

yeah man. crazy tight. Can't believe they did that...

To extract the bolt, I am planning to use a bolt extractor following this method:

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tWc6k8J3ngo]how to remove a subaru wrx camshaft cam bolt in under 30 seconds with out breaking anything. - YouTube[/ame]

If you know which buckets you need and I have any of them let me know. I'll try to remember to post the sizes I have.

Sure. I'll post the sizes I need once the cams are off.

How many miles on this engine?

Wouldn't it be easier to pull the engine, rather than work in such a cramped space?

Didn't the shop who did your last valve adjustment also check clearances for #2?

yeah man. crazy tight. Can't believe they did that...

 

To extract the bolt, I am planning to use a bolt extractor following this method:

 

nice that's better then the wielding way

How many miles on this engine?

 

Wouldn't it be easier to pull the engine, rather than work in such a cramped space?

 

Didn't the shop who did your last valve adjustment also check clearances for #2?

Car has 74k. Previous valve work done at 63k.

Yes. it'd be easier to do this with the engine on a stand. But I don't have all the tools yet to pull the engine out. So I don't mind doing this in the engine bay. It's not too bad really. Good way to strengthen your back muscles .

Yep. The shop changed every single bucket on #2 and #4. I guess they basically messed up their job. And I can't bug them since the shop is in France .

nice that's better then the wielding way

Yeah. I'll update if that method worked for me.

My Bucket List:

Qty Bucket #

(1) 481

(1) 482

(1) 483

(3) 491

(3) 496

(1) 499

Let me know if I can help.

just had (well 4 months ago) the machine shop redo my heads. They adjusted them according to their book (aera is the publisher) and the 2000-2006 Legacy Haynes book. Both have the wrong values. Be sure to refer to the FSM for exact numbers.

Valve clearance mm (in)

Intake 0.20 +0.04/-0.06 (0.0079 +0.0016/-0.0024)

Exhaust 0.35 +/- 0.05 (0.0138 +/- 0.0020)

I drove around with the EJ long block in the trunk of my Buick going from dealership to dealership and shop to shop to get the exhaust bolts off. After getting chiseled off I said no to oem bolts. Ended up with theses in the event I have the car long enough to take them back off again.

http://turninconcepts.com/tic-fu-cam-bolt-kit-single-avcs.html

just had (well 4 months ago) the machine shop redo my heads. They adjusted them according to their book (aera is the publisher) and the 2000-2006 Legacy Haynes book. Both have the wrong values. Be sure to refer to the FSM for exact numbers.

 

Valve clearance mm (in)

Intake 0.20 +0.04/-0.06 (0.0079 +0.0016/-0.0024)

Exhaust 0.35 +/- 0.05 (0.0138 +/- 0.0020)

Sure. I am also using these specs (see my spreadsheet in OP).

I drove around with the EJ long block in the trunk of my Buick going from dealership to dealership and shop to shop to get the exhaust bolts off. After getting chiseled off I said no to oem bolts. Ended up with theses in the event I have the car long enough to take them back off again.

 

http://turninconcepts.com/tic-fu-cam-bolt-kit-single-avcs.html

That sucks man! I actually was able to loosen the bolt using the bolt extractor method (see post 2). But I'll probably use your link to buy some new bolts. Thanks!

I actually was able to loosen the bolt using the bolt extractor method (see post 2).

That's great news. It's good to have options. After you got the bolt out, was it pretty easy to remove the bolt from the extractor?

………..Did a leakdown cold and had 2.5%…………………..

I'm curious if you also did a compression test?

……...Car has 74k. Previous valve work done at 63k…………..

The valve clearance set at the factory is supposed to be good for the "lifetime" of the engine, so it is surprising that at only 63K you needed a valve adjustment. Maybe someone screwed up when the engine was built?

Too bad adjustment of the valves is such a PITA, compared to an inline-4 engine.

one thing interesting is that the culprit, the 0.04mm exhaust valve clearance, was measured on a cold engine (which is the correct way to measure it).

However, when the car was running and reached full operating temp, I'll bet the expansion would have caused an interference rather than a clearance. Meaning, that naughty exhaust valve probably wasn't fully seating, which is exactly why it would lose compression, run rough with misfires, and probably get much worse results on compression/leakdown tests when hot.

That's great news. It's good to have options. After you got the bolt out, was it pretty easy to remove the bolt from the extractor?

I have not taken it out yet. But it should be easy as there is a hole in the extractor. So I can tap the bolt through it.

I'm curious if you also did a compression test?

No, I have not. But we inspected the cylinder walls 10k ago and they looked pristine.

The valve clearance set at the factory is supposed to be good for the "lifetime" of the engine, so it is surprising that at only 63K you needed a valve adjustment. Maybe someone screwed up when the engine was built?

 

Too bad adjustment of the valves is such a PITA, compared to an inline-4 engine.

From several discussions I've participated in this forum, it is strongly believed that clearance is on the tight side from the factory so that the engine is quiet. But overtime, clearance gets worse. So it is unfortunately fairly common to hear a few owners having burnt valves betwen 70-100k.

one other thing to consider: once you get the exhaust cam out, you might want to do another leakdown test on that cylinder (which will have to be cold of course ) just to make sure it looks good.

if you did the above test, and it got poor results, that would unfortunately mean that the valve itself is warped or cracked and isn't fully seating on its own (with absolutely no interference from the cam), which would mean that further teardown would be required to replace that valve. Hey, hopefully not! Just figure it's a quick sanity check

one other thing to consider: once you get the exhaust cam out, you might want to do another leakdown test on that cylinder (which will have to be cold of course ) just to make sure it looks good.

 

if you did the above test, and it got poor results, that would unfortunately mean that the valve itself is warped or cracked and isn't fully seating on its own (with absolutely no interference from the cam), which would mean that further teardown would be required to replace that valve. Hey, hopefully not! Just figure it's a quick sanity check

Sure I could do that. But how could it get worse? The only thing the cam could do is 'push' the exhaust valve out. So without the cam, it could only get better I would think. But yeah, I could do that.

Also another thing I have noticed. Once I took the timing belt out, I remeasured the clearance (just for fun ) on the tight valve. It went from 0.04 to 0.1! So it appears that the tension on the exhaust cam pulley from the timing belt also affects clearance a bit.

So it looks like I should measure the clearances again before taking out the cams and compare with previous measurements.

from this measurement, it would appear you want the clearances to be equal to or higher than the exact measurement when heads are out fo engine?

The measurement I provided without the timing belt on, was still with the head and cams in place.

Btw, engine and heads are actually staying in the engine bay. I am not taking anything out since 10k ago, they took the heads out, 'clean' the valves, valve seat and stuff. I believe everything should still be OK in there. So I am currently planning 'just' to swap buckets to get the correct clearance.

The measurement I provided without the timing belt on, was still with the head and cams in place.

Btw, engine and heads are actually staying in the engine bay. I am not taking anything out since 10k ago, they took the heads out, 'clean' the valves, valve seat and stuff. I believe everything should still be OK in there. So I am currently planning 'just' to swap buckets to get the correct clearance.

There's room to swap buckets with the engine in the car? Getting the OCV cage off was a real pain for me, and that's with the engine out.