legacy auto starting problems

Hi folks, just registered here in desperation as I'm really hoping someone can help me with an ongoing problem I have.

I've got a 2004 Subaru legacy estate 2 L auto, and it's a truly lovely car, possibly the best car I've ever owned. Had this since new, and never had the slightest problem with it until around summer last year when I started to get an intermittent starting problem. I put the key in the ignition, turn it all the way to start position, all the dashboard lights come up, but when you hold the key against the spring for the final part of the turn to start the car, nothing happens. No clicking sounds, just nothing. The symptoms are exactly like the immobiliser has timed out.

The car always starts first thing in the morning without any problems and the engine catches as soon as it cranks, but when the car has warmed up, this problem starts and although the key fob button has been pressed and all the lights on the ignition are on, there's no crank from the starter motor.

I've taken the car to a Subaru dealerships, and they looked at all the diagnostics, found nothing wrong. They made the suggestion that it could be the inhibitor switch on the gearbox, so I had this replaced at no mean expense, but the problem still persists. I've had the car at three other garages, two of them Subaru dealerships, and either the problem doesn't display, or they can't find anything wrong.

They've checked the battery voltage and connections, starter solenoid, re-coded the keys, checked all the steering column connections etc to no avail. And yes, I have changed the key fob batteries..... twice.

I used to go through a whole pile of different antics to get the car to start. Sometimes after rolling the car a fraction it will start the first time, (this might indicate an inhibitor switch problem, but this has been replaced). Other times I have to lock the door and unlock it, sometimes jumping up and down in the seat, sometimes banging the steering wheel, but sometimes none of these antics help at all. Wiggling the key in the ignition sometimes helps, but usually not, and just recently I've discovered that if I just hold the ignition key against the starter spring and hold it there for 15 seconds, it will start.

The other day I thought it had finally packed up, because after holding the key against the ignition spring for a few seconds it started to crank but then immediately stopped. The next turn of the key started the car fine.

I really don't know where to go from here, but I'm getting to the stage of having to throw parts that it. I think the ECU is an expensive item at around £1000, so maybe the first thing I should try is a new ignition switch.

Any advice proffered will be gratefully received.

There are two relays, starter relay and security relay. (at least there may be)

The security relay is connected to the body integrated unit, and it is controlling the coil of the starter relay.

My suggestion is that you remove the starter relay and replace it with a jumper cable. Just make sure that you have the car in park first and ignition off. If the starter pulls you shall remove the cable right away since it means that your car has a different wiring from picture below.

In picture below B72 is the ignition lock (simplified). What you shall do is as I wrote - replace the relay B225 with a jumper cable between pin 13 and 14. Definitely not between 15 and 16.

Be aware that when you do this you circumvent the start inhibitor switch so the starter can be engaged when the gear lever is in any position.

However if the car behaves normally with this wire in place it means that your problem lies in the area of ECM, inhibitor switch, security relay or body integrated unit. If it still has problems it's only the starter motor or ignition lock left that can cause problems and I suspect the starter motor in that case since it's temperature dependent.

http://www.bedug.com/pics/Subaru/starter.jpg

Thanks for your input ehsnils. Do I have to physically remove or replace the relay B225, or can I just put the jump leads in place ?. Also where are these various relays B225, B323 and body integrated unit, actually located on the car ?

. When you say "if the car behaves normally with this wire in place" do you mean normal as in intermittent fault displaying, or normal as in problem cured ?

This does seem to be a problem that is highly temperature dependent, and the fact that the car sometimes starts when the ignition switch is held against the spring in the on position .... or the fact that once doing this the engine started to turn but then stopped .... is that not clearly indicative of something ?

Have you changed your ignition key cylinder? The contacts in there could be bad/corroded and when you turn it to the start position it isn't making good contact.

-mike

Thanks for your input ehsnils. Do I have to physically remove or replace the relay B225, or can I just put the jump leads in place ?. Also where are these various relays B225, B323 and body integrated unit, actually located on the car ?

 

. When you say "if the car behaves normally with this wire in place" do you mean normal as in intermittent fault displaying, or normal as in problem cured ?

 

This does seem to be a problem that is highly temperature dependent, and the fact that the car sometimes starts when the ignition switch is held against the spring in the on position .... or the fact that once doing this the engine started to turn but then stopped .... is that not clearly indicative of something ?

I expect normal as in "cured".

The relays are usually under the hood, but some relays are also in the driver's footwell where you need to remove some panels to get access. Start under the hood.

Thanks for the input everyone, but events have taken a new turn.

After being being a real pain in the neck for over a year, this intermittent problem which was slowly but surely getting worse has now finally become more serious.

Sitting in my car yesterday listening to the radio with the engine stopped, and the ignition key in the ACC second position, there was a crackle on the radio and it died!

Tried to start the car, got ignition lights as usual, but although there was a bit of a click with the key in the full ignition start position the starter motor was completely dead and then the security system siren went off. Every restart attempt resulted in these same symptoms, and the car was giving out all manner of strange bleeping noises.

One of the Windows was open, but I was unable to close it as the electric windows failed to work along with the radio. At one stage I knocked the wiper stalk, and the wipers made a slow traverse of the windscreen taking about 15 seconds, and then died on the return trip with the wipers left in the middle of the windscreen. Later on I was able to move these back to the park position but was unable to power the window closed.

Luckily I was meeting a friend, and he was able to tow me to a garage where I've left it for their attention sometime next week.

The electrics have gone really weird, and I was barely able to lock or unlock the car with the remote, and the security alarm keeps going off with the slightest provocation.

With the above symptoms, it seems to me that there is an electrical fault somewhere out with the starting circuit .... but I'm clueless as to what this could be.

Just waiting for the phone call now .... how much!

Ignition switch is dead, new ignition lock is on the list of things to change.

Shouldn't be too expensive, even though it may cost you some £...

Here's the procedure, but before you remove the whole assembly just check that the electrical contacts are completely connected and that you don't have any damaged cables.

http://www.bedug.com/pics/Subaru/ignition.jpg

My 2007 GT is showing something similar. About 2 weeks ago, it started behaving similar to this thread Sometimes is just won't start. The electrical is on, but the starter never turns. The battery was 5 years old, so I replaced it. Two days later is had problems again. I took it to the dealer, and they didn't see a problem for a whole week. They couldn't see any problem. They didn't charge me since they didn't fix anything.

But last night again, the car wouldn't start. After 15 min it started. I drove home, and restarted with no problems. And this morning is started fine.

What ending up being the problem?

Hi elos .... an update for you.

I did finally get a breakdown related to this problem, and needed to have the car towed away.

The car wouldn't start and the electrics went completely berserk, with the alarm sounding and the wipers activating without warning. I couldn't even close the electric windows and all manner of weird things were happening.

It was later discovered that the battery had a faulty plate and needed replacement. Ahaa I thought, at last I've found what the culprit was. However after this was replaced, the same old antics resumed more or less immediately, and I decided enough was enough and sold the car (at a huge loss, well below the market value I might add).

Around the same time, my son in law had a Subaru Impreza with the same problem, it also got the better of him and he sold the motor.

For me, it was a sad end to a beautiful car. Of all the 20 or so new cars I have owned, I always said that the Subaru legacy was the only one I would actually buy another one of. However this cast a shadow on that decision and I really didn't like the interior styling of the new legacy, so that was that, moved on and bought an Audi. .... and it starts perfectly at the push of a button, what a relief!

Hola, buen dia

alguien que me ayude, tengo un legacy Gt 2005, no tengo corriente en el cable que llega al motor de arranque (marcha), ya revise los relevadores, el interruptor del pedal del clucth, el llavin, todo tiene alimentacion, el diagrama que veo en la foto dice que tiene un relevador de seguridad yo solo vi uno de color azul de 4 pines, por favor su ayuda estoy desesperado, gracias