05 Legacy GT wagon, 5EAT - blown turbo

2005 Legacy GT Wagon, 5EAT

 

Hello all. Seeking your expertise. Not new to Subarus but its been a while.

 

Picked up this wagon with what I am pretty sure a blown turbo. Low to no boost. Rattling. Smoke coming out exhaust. Read through the "blown turbo" FAQ above and I had questions.

 

I'm hoping to build it as a reliable DD for my soon-to-be driving kid.

 

I'm hoping to replace with a stock'ish turbo. From the FAQ, the TD04 from the 08 WRX appears to be the most reliable OEM unit. Is this still the case? What do I need to swap with the turbo? Bolts up to up-pipe and everything?

 

I see that there may be issues with an oil filter in the banjo bolt but the FAQ links are no longer working. Is there anybody else that makes a similar hose/filter kit or DIY? Particularly with an external filter?

 

I was planning on gutting the up-pipe when I get the turbo off. Is it recommended to gut the DP as well?

 

I am planning on getting a tune, more to get rid of some of the sucky things in the stock tune and increase reliability than make power, so tuning for the turbo change will be done. I know the Cobb AP is a popular unit for Subies, but does anybody know if Cobb offers a map for this swap? I really don't plan on doing any modifications to the car so I may just turn to a tuner instead if the cost is much cheaper.

 

Any thing else in particular I should be looking at? I am planning a full fluids flush with multiple oil changes in the next few months here see if I can flush all the metal particles out. Possibly replace or add an inline oil filter in the stock oil cooler.

 

Thanks in advance for your expertise!

Send an oil analysis to Blackstone before you do anything. A lot of of times when the turbo blows it contaminates the oil and you’ll end up needing a new short block.

 

If the motor checks out ok, I’d just stick with a VF40 turbo the car came with.

 

Don’t bother gutting the uppipe, just buy a cat less pipe. No, do not gut the down pipe.

 

I’m general, the stock oil system is ok, although most remove the banjo bolts filters. It’s more important that the oil gets changed regularly with quality oil and filter.

A VF40 or a VF46 (there is one for sale in the classifieds right now) will be a direct swap in with no tuning necessary. You can run Cobbs off the shelf stage 1 with these if you choose to but you’ll need to put on a cat less UP first. If memory serves me you’ll need a performance DP to run anything above stage 1 on the Accessport. Most guys just choose to do both the DP and UP. Stock oiling system is fine as long as you remove the banjo bolts. You could swap in the VF52 from the WRX it’s a common mod for us Legacy guys as it’s direct bolt on. You will need a tune for this however (either virtual e tune or dyno tune). As suggested would definitely send an oil sample to Blackstone Labs first to ensure your motor has not been compromised.

Thanks for the responses.

 

The PO had replaced the Headgaskets and timing belt thinking the rough driving was due to the HG so the oil is still somewhat fresh (less than 1000 miles but over 6mo old). I don't know if an oil analysis would be helpful at this point...? I'll send one in just to see. May be fun to track over multiple oil changes over the summer.

 

Unfortunately, the VF46 in the classifieds sold a few days ago. I had planned on spending ~$700 on a turbo so the budget is there, just not sure if there is any advantage to running a different turbo from a purely reliability perspective.

Just get a rebuilt VF40. There's some debate on if a VF46 is really safe without some adjustments on a vehicle intended to have a VF40.

 

http://hillcountryforcedinductions.com/

Thanks for the link.

 

I drained the oil, coolant, took off the intercooler and soaked the exhaust/turbo bolts in PB Blaster today. The oil is scaring me a bit.

 

Slowly pouring the oil from my drain pan in the sunlight I could see LOTs of glittering, mostly silver but definitely some copper pieces in there. Also took the time to take apart the oil filter and inspect the filter element and found metallic bits in the element.

 

The oil was also a bit milky. I hope this is remnants from a HG issue (as mentioned earlier) but the sloppiness of some of the work is worrisome. The HGs themselves look new but I fear improper install.

 

I'm going to get some engine flush and run it through the engine with new oil. I realize there are some negatives with engine flush chemicals but what'ss there to lose at this point?

 

And a blown rear strut. :/

Edited March 15, 2020 by zze86

Sorry to say, if its a glitter bomb in the oil pan, the motor is done. End of story. At this point the best bet would be to rebuild what you have or take a common route, ordering a new factory shortblock from Heubergers Subaru in Colorado. Its about $1900 shipped to your door anywhere in the Continental U.S. Get the heads rebuilt locally and re-assemble. Probably not what you wanted to hear

I dont know exactly how much glitter you saw, but when I first got my car it had some metal in the oil and after a couple oil changes and turbo swap it has slowly disappeared. Did a oil analysis with Blackstone a couple months ago and it came back with very good results.

 

Just wanted to shed some light on the whole metal in the oil thing. In your case, the shortblock is probably not going to survive. However, I feel there are some exceptions.

 

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Yeah, I'm sure the engine is not long for this world. I'm going to finish taking off the turbo since it's gotta come off anyways for an engine swap and assess from there. May just have to call it quits and recoup my losses depending on what the turbo looks like.

 

Thanks for the link for the shortblock!

Anybody have any tricks on removing the bottom turbo oil hose? I cannot seem to get access to the clamp or even see it. Methinks the PO installed the turbo with the intake manifold off while doing HGs since everything seems to be oriented so that it is accessible with the IM off.

 

Turbo is almost off except for that bottom oil hose. It's a goner. Lots of shaft play. In, out, side-to-side.

 

As an aside I forgot how lazy Subaru's engineering can be. Bolts stacked atop of bolts so that it requires you to take off excess junk. Fought and destroyed the front O2 so I could access a bolt for the up-pipe. Figured I'd try taking the up-pipe out see if I can get access to that bottom oil hose.

Anybody have any tricks on removing the bottom turbo oil hose? I cannot seem to get access to the clamp or even see it. Methinks the PO installed the turbo with the intake manifold off while doing HGs since everything seems to be oriented so that it is accessible with the IM off.

 

Turbo is almost off except for that bottom oil hose. It's a goner. Lots of shaft play. In, out, side-to-side.

 

As an aside I forgot how lazy Subaru's engineering can be. Bolts stacked atop of bolts so that it requires you to take off excess junk. Fought and destroyed the front O2 so I could access a bolt for the up-pipe. Figured I'd try taking the up-pipe out see if I can get access to that bottom oil hose.

It depends on the orientation of the clamp. Even with the intake manifold off if that bracket is connected the only way to it is from where the downpipe was close to the transmission.

 

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk

Just get a rebuilt VF40. There's some debate on if a VF46 is really safe without some adjustments on a vehicle intended to have a VF40.

 

http://hillcountryforcedinductions.com/

 

Sorry to hijack the thread, but this is the first I've heard of this. My car has had two VF46s in it's 212K miles on the OEM motor. What exactly is the concern doing this?

2005 Legacy GT Wagon, 5EAT

 

Hello all. Seeking your expertise. Not new to Subarus but its been a while.

 

Picked up this wagon with what I am pretty sure a blown turbo. Low to no boost. Rattling. Smoke coming out exhaust. Read through the "blown turbo" FAQ above and I had questions.

 

I'm hoping to build it as a reliable DD for my soon-to-be driving kid.

 

I'm hoping to replace with a stock'ish turbo. From the FAQ, the TD04 from the 08 WRX appears to be the most reliable OEM unit. Is this still the case? What do I need to swap with the turbo? Bolts up to up-pipe and everything?

 

I see that there may be issues with an oil filter in the banjo bolt but the FAQ links are no longer working. Is there anybody else that makes a similar hose/filter kit or DIY? Particularly with an external filter?

 

I was planning on gutting the up-pipe when I get the turbo off. Is it recommended to gut the DP as well?

 

I am planning on getting a tune, more to get rid of some of the sucky things in the stock tune and increase reliability than make power, so tuning for the turbo change will be done. I know the Cobb AP is a popular unit for Subies, but does anybody know if Cobb offers a map for this swap? I really don't plan on doing any modifications to the car so I may just turn to a tuner instead if the cost is much cheaper.

 

Any thing else in particular I should be looking at? I am planning a full fluids flush with multiple oil changes in the next few months here see if I can flush all the metal particles out. Possibly replace or add an inline oil filter in the stock oil cooler.

 

Thanks in advance for your expertise!

 

 

I know when my turbo went in my 05, the shop I took it to replaced it with an aftermarket for $1,500 only to find out 2-3k miles later that my up pipe was plugged.. which the shop failed to catch and damaged the new one. After that, due to the plugged up pipe I nuked a valve which nuked my #2 piston. Resulted in having to replace the piston, the crank, heads were sent out for polish/check for cracks. Short block was good tho so we rebuilt the entire engine with new seals, timing belt, etc and a used turbo for $3.8k.

 

Yeah, I'm hoping to avoid all that!

 

I ordered a rebuilt VF40 from Hill Country, a used Tomei up-pipe from ebay, new Subaru exhaust manifold/up-pipe/turbo gaskets. Tossing the stock oil cooler. Going to run 0W40 oil and Wix filters with 500-1000 mile intervals for the next few oil changes, hopefully get all metal particles out.

 

I think I'm going to remove the intake and clean that out as well. There's tons of oil in the intake tract. Intercooler is soaking in soap water waiting to be rinsed out. Probably run some carb cleaner through it as well.

Yeah, I'm hoping to avoid all that!

 

I ordered a rebuilt VF40 from Hill Country, a used Tomei up-pipe from ebay, new Subaru exhaust manifold/up-pipe/turbo gaskets. Tossing the stock oil cooler. Going to run 0W40 oil and Wix filters with 500-1000 mile intervals for the next few oil changes, hopefully get all metal particles out.

 

I think I'm going to remove the intake and clean that out as well. There's tons of oil in the intake tract. Intercooler is soaking in soap water waiting to be rinsed out. Probably run some carb cleaner through it as well.

Oil in the inlet is most likely blowby. I would check the PCV valve while you're in there to make sure it's not stuck.

 

When replacing the uppipe, make sure the connection to the header is the first you get tight. Check on both sides of the connection to ensure the gasket is seated properly. After a couple months, I just recently got my stock catless uppipe to seal.

 

Be sure the banjo filters are removed also.

 

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Edited March 19, 2020 by dwmccauley01

The banjo filter is on the back of the passenger side head.

 

 

In fact read my click here link in my sig, lots of good info there with pictures.

 

Notice I bolt the turbo to the up pipe, much easier to line the new oil return hose, inlet to turbo and up pipe at the same time. Leave the bolts loose until you have the stock TMIC lined up with the throttle body.

 

I got those bolts from the dealership, they are the same bolts that hold the up pipe bracket to the block.

Edited March 19, 2020 by Max Capacity

Thanks for the tips, pics and links!

 

I managed to get the turbo off the other day. Had to take the heat shield off the up pipe to access the clamp. Of course the bolts sheared off but I guess with an aftermarket up pipe it doesn't matter anyways. What a cluster **** job this turned out to be.

 

Up pipe is off as well but it appears I bought a 3-bolt up pipe vs a 2-bolt so have to buy a different up pipe. How's fitment of those cheap ebay up pipes?

 

The turbo was DROWNING in oil so I took off the PCV and ordered a new one.

 

I was going to take off the inlet pipe also but that looks like another cluster **** of a job. Will probably just use a whole can of carb cleaner and run a rag through there a few times.

 

Just waiting for the parts now. Anybody want to buy a Tomei 3-bolt up pipe for cheap?

Check the for sale Forum over on NASIOC for a up pipe from a STI they were catless and will fit fine.

 

You can lift the intake manifold at the TGV to Heads to give a little extra room for tube. It's a PITA job.

+1 for the OEM catless uppipes. They come with a flex joint so you will have more play to get the connection sealed.

 

If you were inclined, I would recommend cleaning your oil pan also.

 

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I couldn't seem to find a STI UP over at NASIOC and given that my turbo is due to arrive next week I went ahead and ordered an ebay pipe. Hopefully things line up and I can bolt things in loosely then tighten everything once it's all hanging together.

 

I've been going back and forth with taking off the oil pan. I feel like I should but I also feel like I'm getting deeper and deeper into a rabbit hole. I mean I'd be in far enough that a couple of lines and bolts and out comes the engine, lol.

I know you don't want to hear it but, read post #7 above.

 

I gather the engine is still in the car.

 

Pulling the oil pan is one thing that you should at least do to make sure your doing the right thing.

Yeah, I didn't really want to get into it. I don't really see the point in taking out the oil pan when it's going to be a goner soon. My thinking is to just get it running for now and do a bunch of oil changes with heavier weight oil see if I can flush out the old, bad stuff and keep it well lubricated so that it runs for another 10K at least. With all the uncertainties right now, it seems prudent to hold off on spending ~$3000, including the shortblock and all the rebuild costs.

 

That being said, guess who got bored and curious today?

 

Took off the oil pan, and pickup. Pics of the pan in the links, the site won't let me upload pictures for some reason (probably still too noob). What do you guys think?

 

https://drive.google.com/file/d/13SSSYRyAgm3wN7pYHEJTmQdwrk4v7uZp/view?usp=sharing

https://drive.google.com/file/d/13pEqWvbtLxURyzleOuMqvnZxnssHcWMn/view?usp=sharing

https://drive.google.com/file/d/14G8mNh3i1LhOS5Wxgs-r7z3rheGbtIq5/view?usp=sharing

https://drive.google.com/file/d/143dIdYqPDweL3kSC7HFVzvlDZec4XpJx/view?usp=sharing

 

I wonder how much of that is from the turbo vs the engine.

 

I have them soaking in soap and water right now trying to break up some of the sludge at the bottom. Let it dry then rinse with some gas. My UOA was just received by Blackstone yesterday so will be interesting to see the results soon. They'll be like

Edited March 29, 2020 by zze86

Yeah, I didn't really want to get into it. I don't really see the point in taking out the oil pan when it's going to be a goner soon. My thinking is to just get it running for now and do a bunch of oil changes with heavier weight oil see if I can flush out the old, bad stuff and keep it well lubricated so that it runs for another 10K at least. With all the uncertainties right now, it seems prudent to hold off on spending ~$3000, including the shortblock and all the rebuild costs.

 

That being said, guess who got bored and curious today?

 

Took off the oil pan, and pickup. Pics of the pan in the links, the site won't let me upload pictures for some reason (probably still too noob). What do you guys think?

 

https://drive.google.com/file/d/13SSSYRyAgm3wN7pYHEJTmQdwrk4v7uZp/view?usp=sharing

https://drive.google.com/file/d/13pEqWvbtLxURyzleOuMqvnZxnssHcWMn/view?usp=sharing

https://drive.google.com/file/d/14G8mNh3i1LhOS5Wxgs-r7z3rheGbtIq5/view?usp=sharing

https://drive.google.com/file/d/143dIdYqPDweL3kSC7HFVzvlDZec4XpJx/view?usp=sharing

 

I wonder how much of that is from the turbo vs the engine.

 

I have them soaking in soap and water right now trying to break up some of the sludge at the bottom. Let it dry then rinse with some gas. My UOA was just received by Blackstone yesterday so will be interesting to see the results soon. They'll be like

 

I am not 100% sure but it looks like you have metal in the oil pan. If the engine is contaminated and all ready damaged, it will last hundreds of miles before a failure. If it fails again you will need to repurchase a new turbo, oil cooler, gaskets. If you do a few of oil changes and it last 1000+ miles, its probably past the hump. That being said If you bought it damaged, the chance are very low of the motor surviving. Your story of a used car purchase with a blown turbo or shortly after driving it home is unfortunately a common one.

Classic glitter bomb, the motor is done please don’t do anything less than a full rebuild or the aforementioned shortblock replacement with a head refresh. I know, crappy news but that’s the reality your dealing with now...

Well, I'll do what I can at this point. Unfortunately, a $3000 engine job is not in the cards with the whole Covid-19 thing, the state essentially on lockdown and tons of people out of work including the spouse and machining services.

 

I wasn't planning on it but given the amount of crap in the oil pan, I'm going to take a better look at the internals. Run the endoscope and check out the bearings and cylinders as well as run a leak down test.

 

Given all the oil in the intake tract and the amount of crap in the oil, my suspicions at this point is more piston and cylinder wall wear than bearing wear. MOST of engine wear is caused by a poor air filtration allowing particles to wear the cylinders. Or in this case, the turbo going bad, chewing up the fins and sending fine particles through to the engine. The particles accelerate wear on the cylinders which gets picked up by the oil. This was compounded by a faulty PCV dumping oil with fine particles into the intake tract which again made its way into the engine causing wear. Of course all the abraded crap makes its way into the engine oil which will eventually wear away at the bearings. So there are a couple of things that need to be addressed.

 

First thing is to try and flush as much crap out as possible. Unfortunately, I'll probably never get ALL the crap out but hopefully, we can get enough out to minimize any more damage to the engine and/or turbo. A mild cleaner/solvent should help with this. Since the oil cooler is coming out a larger oil filter can go in and should filter out more crap before going into the bypass.

 

Second thing is to make sure the engine gets sufficient lubrication. Running higher weight oils and pre-warming the oil should help during the first few initial startups after getting this put all together. The thicker viscosity should also help prevent the oil getting too thin when the cleaner/solvent gets added also.

 

My planned order of procedures for now is to:

 

1) Pre-warm 20W50 oil, add to engine and let idle to bleed cooling system. Add Marvel Mystery Oil (MMO) once coolant bleeding procedure is done and idle for another 10 minutes. Let cool for 15 minutes to let oil remove residual heat. Drain, remove oil pan and clean pan. Replace oil filter.

2) Pre-warm 20W50 oil, add to engine. Add Engine Restore and drive for 50 or so miles using engine break-in procedures. Let cool for 15 minutes to let oil remove residual heat. Drain, remove oil pan and clean pan. Replace oil filter.

3) Add 5W40 synthetic oil to engine. Drive for 90 or so miles using engine break-in procedures. Add MMO and drive for 10 miles. Let cool for 15 minutes to let oil remove residual heat. Drain, remove oil pan and clean pan. Replace oil filter.

4) Add 5W40 synthetic oil to engine. Add Engine Restore and drive for 500 miles. Drain, remove oil pan and clean.

5) Run high-mileage 5W40 synthetic oil on a 3000mi or shorter OCI.

 

Pre-warming the oil should help lubricate better and allow the oil to flow through the filter rather than the bypass during start up. MMO should thin the oil out a bit and help clean the passageways as well. I think with the stock oil pressures, there should be plenty of pressure to push things through to the pan/filter. Engine restore should help fill in some of the wear.

 

UOA is planned for each step so I can track what's going on and adjust procedures as needed and, if it makes it that far, a year out for peace of mind. Will probably be spending a couple hundred on fluids, filters and analysis alone with no guarantees but I think it's as good a plan as possible given the circumstances.

 

Will update once I get a chance to take a peek at the internals.

Edited March 31, 2020 by zze86