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Brake Set-up Reviews including BBKs


SubLo

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  • 3 weeks later...
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Installed front STI Brembos, solid rotors, DOT3 fluid, and OTS ceramic pads last week.

Love the feel, modulation, and effort with the semi-OEM pads ( have some HP+ for weekend auto-x events tho ). Previous setup was completely stock, 90k miles, and BBS wheels.

The calipers were painted silver by the PO, matches the BSM quite well altho with the silver BBS' it's quite the monotone look now...

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  • 3 weeks later...

I have sti brembos , hawk hp pads and oem rotors on the front for now (had slotted but cracked)

 

the rear are hawk hp pads and slotted rotors , also have goodridge ss brake lines and motul bf.

 

I am really pleased with the braking over stock.....much more responsive and doesnt fade nearly as much....has a great bite , hard pedal.

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  • 8 months later...

Aren't there some companies with 8 piston calipers etc? Is this just marketing bling?

 

I'd really like a good qualitys set of brakes for street/trackday/autocross use. I will probably end up with stoptech or ap maybe alcon. I know I don't want willwood. Has anyone used Baer? I know a lot about materials and how brakes should work but it's hard to find data on individual kits or components.

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  • 1 month later...

Just upgraded my stock front brakes/Hawk HPS/Steel braided lines to STI Brembos/Hawk HPS/04 STI blank rotors.

 

I think the difference is pretty substantial. Brakes feel firmer, have fantastic initial bite and the braking power has increased significantly. Very nice upgrade!

 

http://legacygt.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=93388&d=1292092010

Edited by Spec B
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Aren't there some companies with 8 piston calipers etc? Is this just marketing bling?

 

I'd really like a good qualitys set of brakes for street/trackday/autocross use. I will probably end up with stoptech or ap maybe alcon. I know I don't want willwood. Has anyone used Baer? I know a lot about materials and how brakes should work but it's hard to find data on individual kits or components.

 

There some 10 and 12 piston ones as well.... useless in my opinion.

Companies like ALCON, Performance Fricition, and AP too my knowledge do not make anything over a 6 piston for the reason that too much material is removed from the overall assembly reducing is structural integrity. I am not an engineer, and may be wrong on this ... a more efficient method of increasing brake friction is one pad per one piston. 4x4 or 6x6 calipers like this :

 

http://www.mooresport.com/upload/IMG_6547.JPG

 

If you have to ask the price, it isn't for you ;)

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  • 1 month later...

This is great, to have access to info from people who have tried stuff. I am much more thrifty than this. After many years of taking our street cars to the track we bought a used race car cheap. I found on our car that small brakes with 'Hawk Blues' work at

Shannonville/Mosport DDT, and 'Hawk Blacks' work at Mosport Big Track. There is no substitute for a 4" dryer hose dumping cold air close to the center of the rotor. Do not try blocking the cooling so that you can use high temp pads at a big fast track like

Mosport or The Glen. I tried that & we had to replace both driveshafts in one weekend. Please learn from my mistake. It makes me think that any cooling hose, even a 2" one, will probably increase the life of bearings & driveshafts. A motorcycle racer told me,

many years ago, "when the back wheel isn't touching the ground it's really easy to lock up".

Do NOT use high temp pads that require "warm up" on the street. I did it when I was young & stupider. I didn't hit anything but I was lucky!

Of course cars like the Fox body Mustang need the equivalent of Hawk Blues everywhere.

M

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You can't judge the brake system, including the calipers, until you have tried at least two good (expensive) sets of pads. I have tried & like Hawk, Carbotech, Porterfield & Ferodo pads. 'Hawk Blues' are very hard and have amazing bite but 'Hawk Blacks' are easier to modulate.

You also have to bleed the brakes very carefully (tighten the bleed screw before the pedal hits the floor / after you think you're done, do each wheel again). If you aren't doing it yourself you have to go to a 'race type shop' & pay more than normal. If you change the pads (& rotors because they are bedded in) at the track you will have way more confidence & way more fun, but you (or the person teaching you) have to know what you're doing if you're working on brakes!

I want a BBK but more tires, more entry fees & more gas has always won out.

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  • 10 months later...
^^^ lol... i'm aware... my guess is a set of 6x6 & 4x4 calipers along with everything else they would need probably costs more then the rest of my car including mods (even if i was given msrp for parting out everything other than the car lol)
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  • 1 year later...
  • 3 weeks later...

Does anyone have any opinions/predictions on the following setup?:

 

-Stoptech slotted rotors front & rear

-Stoptech pads front & rear

-Technafit stainless-steel brake lines

 

Thinking ahead to when I have a Legacy, I will want a good brake setup that won't break the bank like some BBK's will. The above setup totals out at about $700, which seems like quite a deal compared to the couple thousand needed for a BBK. The intended use for this setup would be for a combination of daily driving, brisk driving through canyon roads on a regular basis, and possibly the occasional autocross a couple times a year.

 

It sounds like stock calipers are fine, so upgrading calipers wasn't too high on my list (mainly because of price). Is this a correct assumption?

 

Thanks

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slotted rotors are probably overkill. Centric blanks work great on the track. The killer is the heat generated...as others have stated, getting cool air to the brake disk, caliper, and hub will do more than a BBK.

 

I dont have cooling and burn up a set of hubs every track day. Measured temps on the rotors after a 30 minute session have been in excess of 1300 degrees. On stock calipers, centric blanks, and HPS, I was black-flagged for having "orange" rotors.

 

Any pad will stop you once. The catch is how long it gets to cool off before the next use. Track driving will see several hard braking actions per lap. Personal experience says Hawk HPS pads are good for 1-2 laps at Pacific Raceways before fading, Hawk HPS+ are good for 3-5 laps, and Hawk DTC 70/60 combo are good for the whole session. At a different track driving 10/10ths, the Hawk DTC 70/60 combo was good for 6 laps until the brake fluid boiled and there were no brakes.

 

Track pads, while street drivable, are not going to be fun or safe experience. Normal, even spirited driving, may never get them into their ideal heat range. Outside their ideal heat range, they will work just not very well. A street pad (step up from OEM) will be more fun and safer.

 

My personal experience says Hawk HPS pads with centric blanks on the street suits me fine. When I feel the need to flog the car, they hold up for the few minutes needed.

 

Your personal experience (which is zero at this point) should look for a baseline of the existing setup, then upgrade as needed. Better yet, take a driver skills class and find out what your car will really do when pushed under safe conditions. It may be your driving technique that slows you down. (the number of times I get flamed for saying this is too many, yet, if you are already an expert driver then why are you asking for advice on wear items). The TL is a nice car (I had one), however, a LGT will run rings around it in stock condition.

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slotted rotors are probably overkill. Centric blanks work great on the track. The killer is the heat generated...as others have stated, getting cool air to the brake disk, caliper, and hub will do more than a BBK.

 

I dont have cooling and burn up a set of hubs every track day. Measured temps on the rotors after a 30 minute session have been in excess of 1300 degrees. On stock calipers, centric blanks, and HPS, I was black-flagged for having "orange" rotors.

 

Any pad will stop you once. The catch is how long it gets to cool off before the next use. Track driving will see several hard braking actions per lap. Personal experience says Hawk HPS pads are good for 1-2 laps at Pacific Raceways before fading, Hawk HPS+ are good for 3-5 laps, and Hawk DTC 70/60 combo are good for the whole session. At a different track driving 10/10ths, the Hawk DTC 70/60 combo was good for 6 laps until the brake fluid boiled and there were no brakes.

 

Track pads, while street drivable, are not going to be fun or safe experience. Normal, even spirited driving, may never get them into their ideal heat range. Outside their ideal heat range, they will work just not very well. A street pad (step up from OEM) will be more fun and safer.

 

My personal experience says Hawk HPS pads with centric blanks on the street suits me fine. When I feel the need to flog the car, they hold up for the few minutes needed.

 

Your personal experience (which is zero at this point) should look for a baseline of the existing setup, then upgrade as needed. Better yet, take a driver skills class and find out what your car will really do when pushed under safe conditions. It may be your driving technique that slows you down. (the number of times I get flamed for saying this is too many, yet, if you are already an expert driver then why are you asking for advice on wear items). The TL is a nice car (I had one), however, a LGT will run rings around it in stock condition.

 

Ok, all that makes sense

 

Haha I don't mind having my driving technique "critiqued"... the last driver skills course I took was about 2 years ago, back when I was driving the Outback. It was very helpful, but I'm probably pretty rusty haha. And the reason I'm getting the Legacy is specifically to run rings around the TL hahaha. The TL is perfect stock, but I'm afraid any aftermarket will kind of ruin it. Plus, it being FWD severely limits its performance potential. The Legacy will make a perfect project car/daily driver.

 

One question though. Why did you say that the slotted rotors are overkill? In theory, they provide better cooling, which means less fade. Does this theory just not translate into practice to the extent it should to be helpful on non-BBK rotors?

Edited by TurboLag23
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  • 1 year later...

One question though. Why did you say that the slotted rotors are overkill? In theory, they provide better cooling, which means less fade. Does this theory just not translate into practice to the extent it should to be helpful on non-BBK rotors?

 

Slotted rotors are more of a bling statement. You're not going to get everything warm enough to be able to get any effect from the slots. Actually if you follow racecar tech (always bleeding edge), they have moved away from slots.

 

If you want more cooling, get a cooling hose and run it to the back of the rotor. This will do more to cool your rotors & hubs than any other change. Then you can run cheaper pads & rotors saving your money for other things like track fees.

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Anyone have experience with the DBA T3 Club spec rotors with Stop Tech Street Pads? Possibly up in the New England area.

 

Why would New England be a requirement? braking is braking regardless of where you live/drive.

 

Club Spec & street pads? seems like you already mixing terms & usages incorrectly. The tried & true combo is Centric Premium blanks with Hawk HPS pads. Works well in pretty much any condition including light track duty. And should be cheaper.

 

I used DBA 4000 (few years older version of the T3) for a track season. When they wore out, I switched back to the Centric Premiums and noticed no real difference. Pads and cooling are going to have a bigger impact.

 

The color coding on the edge was a joke. I overheated them on the first session. I'd have been better off investing in cooling ducts.

 

If for bling, then go for it. If for saving money, look elsewhere.

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The N.E reference, due to being curious as to how DBA's product stands up to salt. I leaned towards the Stop techs for 2 reasons. Reason one being as I read into pads, Stop Techs were mentioned quite frequently and generally those users had a high rate of satisfaction with that product. the other reason being, I bought rotors and pads from KNS. Now if you look at the price of the rotors at full retail its 304.44 for the fronts and 294.76 for the rears; combined that's 595.20 for 4 rotors at their retail cost. Now they have brake packages for these rotors that include pads. They have the Hawk HPS pads with these rotors for 659.15 or the stop techs for 574.97. Now when you look at the math, im Getting the Stoptech pads for free, and im saving 21 dollars on the retail price of the rotors. In my mind that's a good deal. Plus I'd rather my money go to Australia vrs china anyday.
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Sadly my current rotors are shot and they were already turned down once by Subaru and with the pads supposedly replaced, and they just "warped" or built up deposits faster. I tried seeing if there was something the dealership could do as the car was at 35k with a gold warranty, but they told me there was nothing they could do about it was far as warranty. The rotors were turned down at 14,000 when the first owner had the car, so for them to go bad twice within 30k they're obviously junk. I wouldn't blame it on my driving style either as I never shot the brakes on my 99 legacy throughout my 8 years owning it. I generally got 30k+ out of pads and 60k plus off rotors.

 

I was looking at the centric premiums, as they had them on the website, but I felt the difference in price was justified by the increase in quality for the DBA's. If I was still running the outback I would probably buy those or maybe even run the autozone stuff, but I feel the 09 deserves better.

 

What pads were you running when you wore out your DBA's on the track?

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Sadly my current rotors are shot and they were already turned down once by Subaru and with the pads supposedly replaced, and they just "warped" or built up deposits faster. I tried seeing if there was something the dealership could do as the car was at 35k with a gold warranty, but they told me there was nothing they could do about it was far as warranty. The rotors were turned down at 14,000 when the first owner had the car, so for them to go bad twice within 30k they're obviously junk. I wouldn't blame it on my driving style either as I never shot the brakes on my 99 legacy throughout my 8 years owning it. I generally got 30k+ out of pads and 60k plus off rotors.

 

I was looking at the centric premiums, as they had them on the website, but I felt the difference in price was justified by the increase in quality for the DBA's. If I was still running the outback I would probably buy those or maybe even run the autozone stuff, but I feel the 09 deserves better.

 

What pads were you running when you wore out your DBA's on the track?

 

hawk dct 60/70's - a track pad that requires extreme heat to work. Minimum 800 degrees. Worked best at 1200+.

 

Street driving you wont notice difference between dba & centric. You want to think you will, but you won't. If you really want to know, do back to back test runs. If you have dealership turn your rotors instead of bedding them in, you're wasting your money.

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Many folks use rotors like Centric blanks on the track with good pads with no issues. I have a set on my fronts now. I used an nice set of ceramic pads and soon had deposits (I brake pretty aggressively at times though on back road twisties). Sanded a little, threw in Bobcat pads, bedded in, and no deposits :-) For street use, even very aggressive street use, I think folks are fine with plain old blanks like Centric and a good higher friction/temp pad like Bobcats.

 

On the track I've used DBA 5000 two-piece rotors which certainly are nice, but unless you're hard core, plain old blanks and good pads (I use XP12 at the track) should be fine for performance driving events. Certainly blanks and something like Bobcats are fine for the street.

 

As far as calipers, I have Wilwoods which is a nice, but reasonably priced upgrade. Still not a necessity or anything for the street (I tracked with stock calipers too).

Edited by caramall2
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hawk dct 60/70's - a track pad that requires extreme heat to work. Minimum 800 degrees. Worked best at 1200+.

 

Street driving you wont notice difference between dba & centric. You want to think you will, but you won't. If you really want to know, do back to back test runs. If you have dealership turn your rotors instead of bedding them in, you're wasting your money.

 

I did a bedding process a few times to try to remove the "deposits" and it never was able to get rid of the shake in the steering wheel. The rotors were shot and the factory pads still had 5+mm of compound all around. I'd never pay the dealer to turn down a rotor when I can pull them off myself and take it to a local auto parts place and have them turned for 10 bucks a piece. I was testing the limits of the gold Warranty I paid for, and the last time it was covered.

 

I installed my the T3's and Stoptechs on Tuesday, did a good bed in and have been taking it easy till I have 187 Miles on the rotors, and already I can notice a huge difference in the feel and responsiveness of the set up. My fluid was flushed a few weeks prior to installing these and its still factory Sube fluid, so I can obviously get a little more out of the set up with better fluid and a Brace for the master. I may or may not do Stainless lines when I change the fluids, but I do have some nice stainless speed bleeders for when I do.

 

As far as over all quality of the components, you definatly get what you pay for with this set up. My buddies father was so impressed with the quality, he's looking for a set for his '11 Audi S4.

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You have to have a fairly aggressive pad to get rid of the deposits doing it that way. Stock pads (if that's what you used) won't cut it. I've had both DBA 5000 2-piece and DBA 4000. They're nice (esp 5000), but a decent blank with aggressive street pads works well. The pad is where it's at (IMHO) to avoid deposits.

 

Sounds like a nice set up--what model stoptech pads did you get?

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