2nd-Gen LGT Brake Upgrades: WRX front and H6 Rear

Before we start, make sure you've read the Sticky http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/second-gen-aftermarket-parts-and-upgrade-guide-147261.html

Thanks, Zues Marine, Baddog, Frogg, subikid90, and everyone who has kindly provided valuable answers!

 

For those who are unfamiliar with these brake upgrades, I bring you the following link on the WRX front brake conversion:

http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/bk-wagon-brakes-151516.html

 

...and these links on the "H6" rear brake conversion:

http://www.scoobymods.com/subaru-rear-brake-redux-t762.html

http://wrxinfo.com/how_tos/Brakes/H6brakes.htm

http://www.subaruforester.org/vbulletin/f94/subaru-legacy-h6-rear-brake-upgrade-5177/

http://www.sl-i.net/FORUM/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=14909

 

After taking care of the headgaskets on my wife's newly-acquired '98 LGT 4EAT Wagon (see original thread here: http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/just-purchased-98-lgt-wagon-coolant-positive-hydrocarbons-151027.html ), it is now time to deal with the brakes.

 

First off, the front driver's side caliper on this USDM LGT Wagon is seized. The car will drive, but the wheel gets hot due to the pads dragging. So this caliper needs changed, no matter what.

 

Second of all, the brakes all around are just generally worse for the wear. Front Passenger side (not seized, but not very pretty, either):

http://legacygt.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=796&pictureid=4456

http://legacygt.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=796&pictureid=4461

I might as well upgrade since I'm going to all this trouble.

 

Thirdly, the brakes are way undersized from the factory, especially for a "GT" car, IMO. I'd like to improve the brakes by upgrading to larger 11.5" 2002-2004 WRX front brakes and 11.4" 2000-2004 "H6" Legacy rear brakes.

 

Fourth, I have already purchased quality Stainless Steel Braided Brake Lines to install along with the caliper/pad/rotor changeover. (Due to a miscommunication with my seller, I am still awaiting delivery of the second of the two rear lines, hope to have it early this week). I'll be using ATE Super Blue brake fluid; for years I've been pretty happy with it in my Scirocco 16V, and it is stocked just down the street from me at my Euro/import FLAPS.

 

Fifth, I need to decide whether to go stock or performance with the pads and larger rotors. I am leaning towards performance items if the price difference is marginal.

 

Six - I need to be able to mount the factory spare on the "H6"-converted rear axle in the event of a blowout. From discussion in the sticky thread, it sounds like it shouldn't be a problem, but I have not verified it for myself yet.

 

More to come...

So I am still trying to figure this out as well. So what did you come up with?

 

Is it:

 

H6 Rear Caliper Brackets

H6 Rear Rotors

Stock Caliper? WRX caliper? or H6 caliper?

And what brake lines?

 

I got lost at which calipers to use for the rear. I always thought it was everything "H6" (Caliper. Bracket, Rotors, Pads)

The upgrades you mentioned, need a 16" rim to clear calipers.

Got lazy and didn't look up stock size for 98 GT.

Hawk HPS pads or similar, will give you more bite and stopping power. Very little difference in cost vs oem. @$95 for front and $80 for rear. If you have local speed shop, they should be able to get it to you for the same price,. Any help to local businesse are a plus.

 

O.

Great, can't wait to see a write up on this. You've done a great job documenting everything from the last thread, and I'd do this if my brother didn't go behind my back and buy new pads and rotors already keep us posted!

Oh boy, you are killing me, I am going to have to quit being lazy and actually do this swap.

 

Great, can't wait to see a write up on this. You've done a great job documenting everything from the last thread, and I'd do this if my brother didn't go behind my back and buy new pads and rotors already keep us posted!

 

Tell him to return them lol

subscribed! Gonna need brakes eventually....don't forget about e-brake cables and such to make sure they will work with the new rear brakes...

^^ this.

So I am still trying to figure this out as well. So what did you come up with?

 

Is it:

 

H6 Rear Caliper Brackets

H6 Rear Rotors

Stock Caliper? WRX caliper? or H6 caliper?

And what brake lines?

 

I got lost at which calipers to use for the rear. I always thought it was everything "H6" (Caliper. Bracket, Rotors, Pads)

 

Well, fortunately, I haven't given my "final answer" yet but for the H6 Rear Brake Conversion on a 2nd-gen LGT or Legacy already equipped with rear disks, I believe the following items are required:

 

[A] 16" Wheels (the stock LGT "Snowflakes" are 16-inch but I have not verified for myself that there will be no fitment issues with the upgraded size brakes. I have seen plenty of 3rd-gen 2000-2004 LGT's running around on factory Snowflakes, and this is the car from which the upgraded brakes come from, so I'm pretty sure I'm in the clear here).

Removal of the factory rear brake dust shield (the larger H6 rotors will not fit with this affixed).

[C] H6 Rear Rotors (11.4" rear disk rotors from any 2000-2004 Legacy/LGT/Outback equipped with rear disks, does not have to be an H6 specifically, ALL rear disks were this size).

[D] H6 Rear Caliper Brackets (this is the magic part that allows the H6 conversion to happen so easily, because it fits on the rear knuckle of the 2nd-gen LGT without modification).

[E] ~2000-2004 Rear Calipers (this is one area I am still a little fuzzy on, but according to this link http://www.scoobymods.com/subaru-rear-brake-redux-t762.html you cannot use your "old-style" 2nd-gen rear calipers in this conversion, you must update to "new-style" calipers. From this link http://www.sl-i.net/FORUM/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=14909 a 2nd-gen LGT driver swapped to fully-loaded 2004 Legacy Calipers, apparently without mounting problems or brake line fitment issues. 2002-2004 USDM WRX owners have been doing this conversion as well, but in their case they get to re-use their existing "newer-style" WRX calipers by mounting them to H6 caliper brackets. However, WRX owners have also had to deal with a MY~2004+ caliper change that complicated getting the correct rear pads, see here: http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=543512 Therefore, I would like to know what is the "best" rear caliper to use for H6 conversion on a 2nd-gen LGT, taking into account Price, Performance, Fitment, Availability, and Compatibility & Selection of Pads. More info from http://www.scoobymods.com/subaru-rear-brake-redux-t762.html :

The single pot rear calipers can further be divided into either “older” or newer” style. The actual phasing from “older” to “newer” style caliper varied by model. For Imprezas and Foresters, this seemed to occur during MY98. For Legacys and OBs, the “newer” style calipers appeared on MY00 cars.

[F] Pads, which need to matched to the rear caliper/bracket combo. (If you were to use complete 2000-2004 Legacy rear calipers/brackets, the choice is easy - use 2000-2004 Legacy rear pads... but is this ideal? I dunno, I've read that slection of 3rd-gen Legacy parts is not so great, but maybe finding performance brake pads is not a big deal. OTOH, a "Hybrid" (or maybe "Frankenstein" ) Rear Brake consisting of an H6 rear rotor, H6 rear caliper bracket, and WRX rear caliper would maybe open up a world of choices for performance pads... but that choice of pads would be dependant on whether you would be using pre- or post MY2004 WRX calipers. OR, could it be that all 2000-2003 rear calipers are that same (minus calipers brackets, I'm just talking about the "squeezers" here) regardless of model - Legacy, WRX, etc?

Okay so if I were to use the H6 rear calipers. The factory brake lines would work without upgrade or is that for the WRX rear calipers? And wouldn't the H6 Rear calipers be better then the rear WRX calipers?

 

Thanks. This is really helping clear things up for me.

The upgrades you mentioned, need a 16" rim to clear calipers.

Got lazy and didn't look up stock size for 98 GT.

Hawk HPS pads or similar, will give you more bite and stopping power. Very little difference in cost vs oem. @$95 for front and $80 for rear. If you have local speed shop, they should be able to get it to you for the same price,. Any help to local businesse are a plus.

 

O.

 

16" stock LGT "Snowflakes" should fit, I see them on 3rd-gen LGTs already.

Zues Marine also suggested a pad upgrade for H6 rear brakes in the sticky, EBC Greenstuff. I'm pretty sure my FLAPS can get most pads available... but for whatever reason, they couldn't get WRX or H6 calipers

subscribed! Gonna need brakes eventually....don't forget about e-brake cables and such to make sure they will work with the new rear brakes...

 

Thanks for the input, that is an excellent point. According to this link http://www.scoobymods.com/subaru-rear-brake-redux-t762.html it should be a straight swap:

INTERNAL REAR HAND/PARKING BRAKE

 

All USDM Subarus with rear discs since 1990 have utilized an internal drum rear hand/parking brake of 170mm in diameter. The rear drive assembly used on the AWD versions of these cars is designated as R160.

 

Some recent, JDM and abroad, WRX-Sti and Impreza models have come equipped with a larger rear drive assembly designated as the R180. I am positive these assemblies have been available since 2001, but may have been available back to 1997. Along with this larger rear assembly, these cars came equipped with vented rotors of either 290 or 316 mm utilizing an internal rear drum hand/parking brake 190mm in diameter.

Okay so if I were to use the H6 rear calipers. The factory brake lines would work without upgrade or is that for the WRX rear calipers? And wouldn't the H6 Rear calipers be better then the rear WRX calipers?

 

Thanks. This is really helping clear things up for me.

 

I would love to know the best answers to these questions as well. I'm not yet sure.

I'm pretty sure my FLAPS can get most pads available... but for whatever reason, they couldn't get WRX or H6 calipers

 

Amusing story: Since my local shop could not get these calipers, last week I called a local NAPA shop, as well as the Subaru dealership, to get quotes. NAPA told me US$76.99 for rebuilt WRX front calipers, with a US$55 core charge (BTW, can I exchange my LGT calipers for core on WRX remans, or must they be from the same model?) When I called the dealership, I was surprised at how affordably priced the brand new WRX front calipers were: US$94.95/each, would be in stock in a few days if I ordered them. I thought about it for the day, did more research (was trying to determine what EXACTLY I needed for the H6 caliper conversion). Late in the day Friday I called the dealership back to place the order and the polite dealership parts salesman took my credit card info, and was about to pass my call along to the billing lady, when I stopped him and asked about H6 rear calipers, which I did not get quoted earlier in the day. He said, "Looks like they are about $20 dollars cheaper than the fronts you're ordering now, $276.99." My brain immediately came to a screeching halt. "Wait... what?? A pair??" "No, that is per caliper." "Hold on here..." and polite and somewhat bemused disagreement over the price I was quoted for the WRX calipers ensued for a minute, which turned out to be NOT $94.95, as I had written when I took notes during the first phone call - the actual price was US$296.95 per caliper, plus sales tax. Needless to say, I did not order calipers from the dealership on Friday

 

So now, I need to decide how to proceed, such that I can round up all the parts I will need. Options are:

[A] Do nothing. (Bzzt! Wrong answer. I cannot do nothing with a seized caliper.)

Round up used calipers and rotors for the upgrade, via craigslist, etc. (Not really my first choice, but I suppose that is part of the original spirit behind the WRX/H6 Brake Upgrade: bigger brakes for CHEAP).

[C] Use a combination of used calipers and/or brackets, along with NEW performance Pads and Rotors, plus the SS lines I've already purchased.

[D] Use a combination of remanufactured calipers/brackets along with NEW performance Pads and Rotors, plus the SS lines I've already purchased (this is probably my favored option because the brakes would be essentially "all new on a budget" from lines to rotors, but questions remain: Which "brands" of remanned calipers are to be trusted? Will my LGT calipers qualify as cores? What if my kite wiiiinds around a power line? oops, not that question )

Sooo much information is jumbling my mind.

LOL, I have a hard time making things short and sweet!

There is a Subaru performance shop in PDX, I think I'm going to go by and have a look. They have a lot of used parts. I found them on craigslist http://www.silverlineautomotive.com/parts-department-1.aspx

Any locals have any experience?

Just to throw in my two cents

 

I have done this upgrade and whille back and to tell you guys this is a wow difference from stock. I went with brembo blanks for a wrx and regular kragien black rears for h6 and matched with hawk performance pads. I got the brackets 20 bucks for the pair off i-club classifieds and then 40 bucks new for h6 brackets.

Its easy and quick if you already know how to change your rotors and pads you just add one more step to it.

 

you can use your stock brake lines but I would recommend stainless steel ones to complete the experience.

Just to throw in my two cents

 

I have done this upgrade and whille back and to tell you guys this is a wow difference from stock. I went with brembo blanks for a wrx and regular kragien black rears for h6 and matched with hawk performance pads. I got the brackets 20 bucks for the pair off i-club classifieds and then 40 bucks new for h6 brackets.

Its easy and quick if you already know how to change your rotors and pads you just add one more step to it.

 

you can use your stock brake lines but I would recommend stainless steel ones to complete the experience.

 

What? This got me confused. 2 sets of brackets? Are there not just one set of brackets (H6) for the rear?

There is a Subaru performance shop in PDX, I think I'm going to go by and have a look. They have a lot of used parts. I found them on craigslist http://www.silverlineautomotive.com/parts-department-1.aspx

Any locals have any experience?

 

Silverline is kind of expensive. But overall not too bad to deal with. Excuse me for saying this. But they are Russian I believe to put it in to perspective.

 

My friend bought his 04 STI from there. Was easy to work with.

I have heard nothing but bad things about silverline automotive. Read on nasioc about them. Way to expensive, like $1500 for 04 sti seats.

What? This got me confused. 2 sets of brackets? Are there not just one set of brackets (H6) for the rear?

 

 

I did wrx fronts and H6 rears your need their brackets in order to fit your calipers onto newly larger rotors. So thats why i listed two prices

I did wrx fronts and H6 rears your need their brackets in order to fit your calipers onto newly larger rotors. So thats why i listed two prices

 

I think we are a bit puzzled because elsewhere it says you must change not only the caliper brackets, but the calipers themselves. But it sounds as if you did not find changing the calipers (to WRX and/or H6) necessary? You were able to retain your 2nd-gen LGT calipers?

I have heard nothing but bad things about silverline automotive. Read on nasioc about them. Way to expensive, like $1500 for 04 sti seats.

 

Okay, thanks for the heads-up. Sounds like they expect people to wheel-and-deal a bit? I might just skip it, I'll get stuck in rush-hour traffic on I-5 back to da 'Couve, anyway.

go to either www.car-part.com or www.allforeignautoparts.com .

 

I paid $30 each from all foreign a few years back plus @$8 shipping total.

 

May not look pretty, but you can make them so before installation.

 

Can also look on NASIOC for someone who is selling theirs.

 

O.

I think what we need. Is less confusion and more clarity in this matter. I think the front is simple.

 

Most common is WRX 2 pots

 

FRONT:

WRX 2 pot calipers

Caliper Brackets

Rotor's

Pads

 

Rear:

H6 Caliper

H6 Caliper Bracket

Rotor

Pads

 

All matching. I say the best bet would be to get the bigger rear caliper.

 

But I think we are confused on

 

Can we use the stock caliper with the H6 caliper brackets and bigger rotors

 

Or do we need to upgrade to H6/WRX calipers?

 

I may have just made this more confusing.