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Track Day advice/suggestions?


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Figured it was time to start my own thread, after threadjacking a dozen other threads.. My thanks to everyone who was gracious enough to answer, and my apologies if I offended anyone.

 

Looking to try out a few track days in the '05 LGT wagon. It's not new anymore, but seems to run strong. I also need to (at least for a while) keep it DD-able - at least enough to drive 20 miles to/from work and the kids 3 miles to school everyday. Note: I know there's some risk involved. I have already test-driven several cars like a '14 Vsport and '14 SS and '17 STI, and could write a check for those today. Just not ready to commit so hard to one specific car yet - they each have things I liked.. And the LGT has a bunch of things I like too, and don't necessarily want to give up.

 

Mods:

-bnr16g + DW650 + walbro + CNT catback + GS TMIC

-moved FPR reference line to tapping off BOV reference line, 4th cyl tap going to boost gauge

-killer b oil pickup, IP&T oil line kit, GS MBC reinforcement bracket

-Hexmods F1 + center diff bushings

-Cobb sways + Koni struts + KS LCA + steering rack bushings

-a few cosmetic things that aren't relevant

 

I want to TRY track days, so that I know if I like it. I don't want to drop $30-40 on an STI or similar only to find I'm not really going to do it much. Plus, I'm not afraid to stuff the LGT - I figure it's worth $5-7k, maybe. So I'm trying to do a "bang-for-buck" build, not a Fredrik build :lol:. At least not yet.

 

 

Here's what I had in mind. Some of this is "get ready for track", other stuff is just "probably needs it anyway".

 

Suspension:

-Koni sport kit (i.e. Konis + H&R springs)

-KW V2 (there's a $125 rebate available right now).

 

Konis have 75K miles on 'em (127k total), and mechanic recently suggested shocks may be weak. Plus, pretty sure new top hats wouldn't hurt. I don't mind spending a little extra on suspension

 

Brakes

-Brakeswap Willwood conversion on the front

-KNS brakes 2-pot brakes on the rear

-new stainless lines, RS4 pads for the street, maybe for a first track day? After that, maybe XP6/XP8/XP10 pads?

-I've never liked the OEM brakes (I've tried various pads, including HPS, Stoptech and Bobcats - liked the Bobcats best), I'm probably almost ready for new pads on the rear.

-I know people have tracked on OEM calipers, but this is a "I want better brakes" kind of want, plus I want to be able to switch pads faster, and not have to remove the calipers all the time.

-is there a better bang-for-buck upgrade available that includes "quick-swap" calipers? I may be getting a deal on the front kit, so mostly wondering about the rear

-I know I'll need to learn/practice bleeding brakes - any suggestions on 1-man bleeding kits, quick-bleed valves, etc? I can get my wife/kids to help sometimes, but would rather be able to do this even if they're not home.

-brake fluid suggestions?

 

Wheels

-need another set of wheels, currently running 225/45/17 MPS AS3+ on OEM wheels. Have a couple of extras - 1 in-trunk spare, 1 wheel on the shelf

-looking either at more OEM wheels (cheapest), or 17x8s.

-17x8s, tentatively thinking TRMotorsport FF10s (Tire Rack) - $170/wheel, flow-forged, made by Enkei, apparently. ET45. 17.1 lbs/wheel. Or are the TRMotorsport C4s at $120 each useable?

-worth buying an extra wheel or two? I did this for my FWD VWs, so I always had an extra axle's worth of tires around, etc.. With AWD, probably not.

-I don't really care too much about looks - still driving OEM wheels after 12 years..

 

 

Tires

-Any tire suggestions? Assuming I get some 17x8s, was thinking something in 245-40-17, which is almost exactly stock diameter.

-Any specific brands that are good in the bang-for-buck category? Whatever UHP Tire Rack has on closeout/sale? General Altimax UHP? :lol:

 

 

Other

-maybe get the mechanic to hook up the transmission cooler I bought but never got around to installing

-helmet - assuming I need one. Used at a motorcycle shop? Or rent at track?

 

Other thoughts?

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My biggest concern would be the motor since that is the most expensive to rebuild. From the mod list I am guesting you are still running the stock block. It doesn't take much to blow a ringland, especially if you are driving the car hard on a track.

 

I would look to get a "track" tune that is very conservative (runs a bit richer and runs less boost). I imagine this would also help lower temps for oil and tranny. Much better to be reliable then to save a second on lap time.

 

I would definitely get the tranny cooler hooked up since you are running the 5EAT.

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I personally logged thousands of track miles with 100k street miles on my original engine which lasted 9 years and finally dropped compression after running 25 PSI at Road America at 370whp. Tuning goes a long way but eventually the stock ring gaps become the problem with enough power/heat. :lol:

 

Who did your tune hadvw? Is it open source?

 

RS4 pads will be ok for you to get started. If they wear too quickly or start to fade, then XP8 would be the choice for your power level on street tires.

 

You could buy an extra wheel in case you bend or crack one. That said, I've had pretty good luck with my wheels and haven't had to replace one yet. (knock on wood).

 

Bridgestone RE71R or Hankook RS4 would be my recommendations for a street tire that will do well on track.

 

Buy a new SA2015 helmet. SA is rated properly for use in a car. I like the Bell or Pyrotect open face ones.

http://pitstopusa.com/i-23926002-pyrotect-prosport-open-face-helmet.html

 

Run a good quality oil and change it more often when doing track days. Rotella 5w40 has been fine.

 

I know we've been messaging back and forth. If you want to get an impression of the KW suspension, we could meet up for a ride along. I'm not as familiar with these west coast tracks just yet, but they can't be any worse on brakes than 140 MPH+ into turn 5 at Road America.

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Thanks need bb and Franz.

 

My tune is opensource from Tuning Alliance, with some massaging by throttlehappy for better 5EAT torque tables. But I've gone through several different tunes. I used to drive 12-13k/year, now it's more 6-7k/year.

-around 30 (forget exactly), Cobb stage 1 (VF 40)

-38k or so, TDC stage 2 (gutted pipes)

-63k, bnr16g + dw650 + walbro + GST tune

-95 or 100k, Tuning Alliance opensource, with several revisions. At 127k now.

-considering E85 flex fuel tune..

 

I will contact Mike and see if he has any concerns about track usage. Also, maybe a milder fuel cutoff setting in case I forget to shift.

 

Re oil: The latest change got whatever synthetic Firestone uses. I've been topping it off with Rotella. But I've used Pennzoil Platinum about 85% of the time.

 

Thanks for the offer, Franz. Where do you tend to hang out? I'm mostly in Fremont and Sunnyvale/Mountain View.

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I am in the same boat as you hadvw, looking to start more track days.

However, my recommendation is pads, fluids, tires and go. Drive what you have first 1-2 times. See what you don't like. Build from there.

 

KWV2s for $800

http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/full-part-out-pa-2005-bsm-legacy-gt-sedan-261030.html

 

I rode in Franz's car briefly, the KWs felt pretty good. Curious how they feel on the 880 though, which is basically terrible.

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I am in the same boat as you hadvw, looking to start more track days.

However, my recommendation is pads, fluids, tires and go. Drive what you have first 1-2 times. See what you don't like. Build from there.

 

KWV2s for $800

http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/full-part-out-pa-2005-bsm-legacy-gt-sedan-261030.html

 

Thanks. I already know I don't like my brakes. Even for the street. So they'd probably get upgraded regardless.

 

It's a deal, but those have 50k miles on 'em. Probably ready for a rebuild..

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They seem to fade very quickly - one to two longer stops on the street, and I notice they're fading. Also, at times during harder braking, it seems the car pulls to one side. I tried the stoptech pads, liked them in between HPS (which sucked) and Bobcats (my favorite so far).

 

In general, the brakes seem worse than any of the brakes I had on any of my VWs. I'm a "brake overkill" kind of guy.

 

Part of it is the ease of swapping pads as well - not having to unscrew each caliper seems like it would make pad swapping significantly easier.

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Thanks need bb and Franz.

 

My tune is opensource from Tuning Alliance, with some massaging by throttlehappy for better 5EAT torque tables. But I've gone through several different tunes. I used to drive 12-13k/year, now it's more 6-7k/year.

-around 30 (forget exactly), Cobb stage 1 (VF 40)

-38k or so, TDC stage 2 (gutted pipes)

-63k, bnr16g + dw650 + walbro + GST tune

-95 or 100k, Tuning Alliance opensource, with several revisions. At 127k now.

-considering E85 flex fuel tune..

 

I will contact Mike and see if he has any concerns about track usage. Also, maybe a milder fuel cutoff setting in case I forget to shift.

 

Re oil: The latest change got whatever synthetic Firestone uses. I've been topping it off with Rotella. But I've used Pennzoil Platinum about 85% of the time.

 

Thanks for the offer, Franz. Where do you tend to hang out? I'm mostly in Fremont and Sunnyvale/Mountain View.

 

Were you unhappy with the GST tune or just needed a retune and wanted to save some money? I'm a big fan of a soft rev limit before a hard rev limit. I ran my car with 7200 RPM hard limit all the time on the stock engine and was not afraid to take it above 7k on track. I'm deciding if I want to just pay for dyno time and do my own speed density tune or turn it over to Mike at GST and let him do it. I've tuned a lot of Subarus on MAF just not on speed density yet. E85 is awesome stuff but most tracks do not have it nearby and lugging multiple gas cans of it does not appeal to me. I know some people do that though..

You already did your timing belt replacement yes?

 

I bounce between Oakland or Danville.

 

How are your front lower control arm bushings? If the car pulls to the side during hard braking, this can be a cause and they are notorious for failing often.

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I wasn't totally happy with the GST tune - I was having stalling issues in some cases. Plus, it was on a Cobb v1, which was quite limited - I'd heard OS was an improvement over that. TA tune was much cheaper. My absolute favorite tune was the TDC stage 2 - lightning reflexes in town.. But, of course, the vf40 ran out of steam at ~5000 rpm..

 

Yeah, I'm looking at doing a soft rev limit at some point. I've never done any of my own tuning. Does speed density require any hardware mods, or just tune re-writing?

 

For E85, this is why I wanted to do the flex fuel - I've got an E85 station around the corner from my house, and our '15 Chrysler T&C is a FFV. I use it whenever possible.

 

Had the LCAs done at like 50k, along with the Cobb sways and Koni shocks. Am wondering if they're still good, though. Have thought about doing all the Whiteline front-end stuff.. Could also probably use new motor/trans mounts.

 

Are you coming to the meet?

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Got some feedback from my tuner. He sent me a map with a softer rev limit ('05s don't upshift in manual mode).

 

Regarding a track tune, he said: Regarding a track tune, pump fuel in these engines is not designed for prolonged high load conditions, the cylinders will heat up and knock will occur regardless of how conservative it is. That being said I would recommend adding some oxygenated race gas, to give you a few additional octane points. A few gallons of 104 or so in a half a tank of pump should get you there.

 

I've also, once again, batted around the idea of buying another LGT so that I have one that's more DD, one that I can take apart and can work on.. First world problems for sure :lol:

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heh-heh, these are my favorite kinds of threads. I really need to make a sticky so I can paste it in.

 

You, the driver:

Take a driver skills class first. The Audi & Porsche clubs in your area teach them. They are well worth the money for teaching you the basics you need on track. Its far easier to learn braking, cornering and vision techniques at 50 mph than at 120mph.

 

If you haven't read Ross Bentley's speed secrets books yet, get one. They are on kindle. He does pod casts too.

 

Being on track is 90% mental / 10% everything else.

 

Safety gear:

Helmet: Get a full face SA2015 helmet. Get the lightest one you can afford. After a couple high-g corners the $50/100 you saved on the heavier one won't be worth it. Keep in mind, this is a hobby. You need to be able to walk away from an accident with your brain intact. Helmet should fit snug and cover your chin. A dark visor is good for glare reduction. If it has room for radio, so much the better. Sensa makes a nice bluetooth headset for talking to your instructor.

 

Head Restraint/seat belt system: Simpson makes one that works with 3-point belts. Spendy, but worth it if/when you have an off. Or get a HANS, and use a 4/5 point belt system from Schroth. The added restraint from the Schroth will make it easier to retain control of your car. The HANS will work correct with the Schroth, too.

 

If you spin or have a hard hit, your unrestrained head can exceed the strength of your neck muscles.

 

Gloves: your hands get slippery on the wheel, and fatigued. Buy something fire proof (resistant) with pre-curved fingers. I use OMP Evo 1 (really expensive, still good 5 years later).

 

Shoes: The LGT requires a thicker shoe, not sure why (miata was better thin soled shoes). I used Piloti driving shoes as the thicker sole was less fatiguing.

 

Driving Suit: Depends on how geeky you want to be. Until my car caught fire, it wasn't on my list. Afterwards, I always wear it. A 2 layer suit is $800-1000. The gold standard is about $1900. http://www.ompamerica.com/category.php/cPath/1_4 anything "that says F1 tech" is good. Fit is important, be sure wear it like you would at the track and sit in a driving seat for 20-30 minutes. If it irriates you before then, on the track it will totally suck.

 

Cooling unit: Southern California gets hot, especially on track. inside car temps can be 20 degrees over ambient. A cool suit will keep you cooler longer. More of a race item than street car, however, you still get hot in the street car after while. A/C and track don't go together.

 

Car:

Oil: I ran Chevron 15/40 turbo diesel oil. Eventually going to Redline 40w synthetic. The Redline was only for days I was going to run all day. Otherwise it was too expensive. Change your oil & filter before you go (like a day or 2 before), change your oil when you get home. Send the track day oil to Blackstone for analysis.

 

Add an extra half quart at the start of the day. Check your oil before every session. Check your oil after every session. Once it turns black, your track time is pretty much over. If it gets gritty, you're done. If it gets silvery, call a tow truck.

 

I brought a gallon or two of the oil I was using (don't mix brands, types, weights).

 

If you have money, get an extra deep oil pan. KillerB, Moroso, etc. A windage tray will help, too.

 

Don't use the Grimmspeed AOS, it'll cause you to rebuild sooner than later.

 

Cooling:

Radiator: I ran the OEM unit the whole time. Its cooler in the Seattle area. If you overheat on the street, you'll overheat on the track. Upgrade to a bigger/better unit. Koyo/Mishimoto are 2 good brands. You'll need the hoses for them. Use the stock radiator cap. Flush the motor before putting on the new radiator.

 

Use only water on the track. Antifreeze, if spilled, will turn the track into a ice rink. You may have to pay for clean up costs. If someone wrecks because of your anit-freeze, you may get sued.

 

Transmission cooling: yes. Your transmission is going to get hot. Add a cooler and mount in the air stream. You might want to add a thermostat so it doesn't over cool.

 

Tires/Wheels:

Tires: get a track tire or at least a max summer tire. Only use them on the track. Put them on their wheels. Get tire covers, not plastic bags. Store them in a cool dry place until you need them.

 

Wheels: 4 wheels are good enough. Lighter weight is good. 17x8 +45 is a good wheel spec. TR Motorsports or Enkei are good. Enkei PF01 has an interior rough zone that holds the bead better so the tires don't spin on the wheel. The racecar has them.

 

If you drop a wheel and crack it, you'll have other damage too. Call a tow truck.

 

Towing: Get a AAA membership that includes enough miles to get towed to your shop or home. Cheap insurance. Never try drive a broken car home.

 

Suspension: For a newbie, I'd suggest your stock setup. However, you already changed it. You want something you are comfortable with. Dont make the track day the first time you've driven the suspension in anger. Find a cloverleaf and get up to speed so the tires are howling. That's the track sound you'll be hearing. Also consider how hard that line is too hold.

 

Brakes: Yes, you need them. Change your brake fluid to RBF600 or equivalent. Teach your kids how to press the brake pedal. Its not hard to bleed.

SS brake lines - you need them if only because 12 year old car. Stoptech or Goodridge are good.

Pads - don't overthink this. Any pad will fade eventually. Its a heating issue. Add brake ducts and they will keep them cooler. A track pad is only useful on the track. If you find all pads suck, it might be your technique. Braking on track is more of 60% intial brake pedal travel leading to 100% and tapering back to zero. If you use the first 1/2 inch of travel, you are braking incorrectly.

 

Shameless plug: If you never read my trials and tribulations of taking a ~100k mile wagon to the track, it might save you some pain and dollars. To do over again, I'd have bought a spec miata racecar and skipped the whole "mod the wagon into a track car" ordeal. If you have 30-40k lying around, look into Lucky Dog racing. You can get on a team for $500-1000 dollars and go enduarance racing on a weekend. At the end, you'll either love it or hate it. If you love it, a spec miata is $5000-10,000. You can go racing all year.

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Thanks for all the input, Boxkita.

 

I did the Exotics Racing thing in Vegas, and really liked it.

 

First, I decided to try it this way, rather than a dedicated race car, because I have kids, and almost all trips involve family for part of it, etc. And because I'm not 100% convinced of how far I want to go.

 

I find even the LGT cramped (I'm not that tall, but I'm all legs or something) - would love for the seat to go back 2-3 more inches. So I might not like how I fit in a Miata at all. Plus, with a 4-door, I can take the family around town and get used to the car, suspension, etc. Miata would mostly just sit. Your May 2013 schedule is what I HOPE to find time for in 2-3 years. And I don't mean in 2020, but over a period of 2-3 full years of me "doing track days".

 

With only a racecar, I'd drive it 3-4 days a month max, and then, mostly in stop-and-go traffic - not exactly the time I wish I had a manual. ALL my seat time would be on the track, which would be horrible for actually getting used to it. That's why I'm trying to do this with my current car - I'm used to it, it can take the family, etc. Plus, it's older and not worth that much. If I write it off, I'm not that upset.

 

If my odds of success (success being: surviving 3 or 4 HPDE events this year without a major disaster/breakdown) are less than 75%, then maybe I need to rethink the whole thing and just scrap the entire idea of track days entirely.

 

-Coolant vs water: I had thought about this - does everyone here who does track days switch to water for every track day? Or just run water all year (NorCal, we rarely see freezing)? Cooling shouldn't be as much of an issue - the car has only gotten hot once, when going up to Tahoe in 85+ weather a couple of years ago. Then again, what do I know? :lol:

 

-Have Ross Bentley's book. Have read a few chapters. Most of it seems to be about how to improve your existing technique. Smooth is fast, etc. I'm not even there yet - I don't have an existing technique. But I should get back to reading more.

 

-belts: does everyone here use additional/replacement seat belts?

 

-helmet: had planned on that, thanks for the hints. I usually wear glasses - are there helmets that can accommodate that? I do have contacts that I wore for Exotics and generally for sports, so I could also do that. I can get 3-4 hours max on those, and don't see well up close when they're in, so I guess I'd have to cycle back and forth if I need to do any field repairs..

 

-cooling/fire suit: does everyone use one? Or just highly recommended?

 

-shoes: not there yet.

 

-Lucky Dog Racing - is that $500-1000 per weekend?

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Boxkita's advise is super conservative, but it's because if something can go wrong, it will go wrong for him. But, he also has the most experience of anyone where everything goes wrong....

 

In this area track days are usually 85+, if you overheated on the way to Tahoe, you will probably start to overheat at the track. I can consistently almost overheat my car driving over the Sierra's in 96+ degrees. During my track day (years ago), by the late afternoon my car couldn't dump enough heat and my overflow tank puked some coolant. So, maybe bump up removing anti-freeze and running straight water :D.

 

However, wpMarky and Element899 all have decent experience tracking in this area and might be able to provide some more targeted guidance.

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I was in the same shoes as you for awhile, hadvw. LGT was my only car and I wanted to enjoy it on long trips and still have fun on track. It worked well while the car was under 340 whp and I kept an eye on things like the oil level, ECU learning, etc. Now I have a different car for a daily so the LGT is more extreme. :lol:

 

Good info from boxkita. Some of it is overkill for HPDE if you just want to get your feet wet.

 

Seat time with instruction: #1 track mod

 

I use the stock seat belt, sometimes with a CG lock. If I don't run the CG lock, I pull the belt tight around my lap so it locks. My seat belt lock still seems strong. I also bought a Simpson neck support to reduce fatigue (https://www.pegasusautoracing.com/productselection.asp?Product=2120). If I was running a harness, I'd definitely run a Hans.

 

Helmet: You can wear glasses depending on the style of the frame. Open face helmets make it easier to wear glasses, but no chin protection. If you were wheel to wheel racing, I'd say run a full face helmet, no question. For HPDE, open face with SA2015 rating is good assuming your stock safety equipment is in place (airbags).

 

for 20-30 min. sessions I haven't felt the need to run a cool suit for a 90 degree day. I run FR racing gloves (great mod) and racing shoes. Through work I have FR pants and shirt I can wear too, so may do that instead of a full racing suit.

 

Hottest track day I did was close to 90 degrees ambient. Car ran 50/50 mix antifreeze and the overflow tank puked. I now run a Koyo radiator with more power and no problems so far.

 

Boxkita, do you run any additive with pure water in the radiator to prevent corrosion?

 

Throwing in a few gallons of race gas definitely helps. I'm sure that helped promote my stock engine's longevity with track use. If you're lacking cats, you can run 110 octane, otherwise 100 octane is ok.

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I wasn't totally happy with the GST tune - I was having stalling issues in some cases. Plus, it was on a Cobb v1, which was quite limited - I'd heard OS was an improvement over that. TA tune was much cheaper. My absolute favorite tune was the TDC stage 2 - lightning reflexes in town.. But, of course, the vf40 ran out of steam at ~5000 rpm..

 

Yeah, I'm looking at doing a soft rev limit at some point. I've never done any of my own tuning. Does speed density require any hardware mods, or just tune re-writing?

 

For E85, this is why I wanted to do the flex fuel - I've got an E85 station around the corner from my house, and our '15 Chrysler T&C is a FFV. I use it whenever possible.

 

Had the LCAs done at like 50k, along with the Cobb sways and Koni shocks. Am wondering if they're still good, though. Have thought about doing all the Whiteline front-end stuff.. Could also probably use new motor/trans mounts.

 

Are you coming to the meet?

 

I missed this post. Speed density needs a relocated IAT sensor and upgraded MAP sensor plus the software changes. Yeah E85 is just down the street from me too. Sadly my ID1000's are too small for my current turbo to get the most benefit.

 

I'm planning to attend the meet depending on the date and time (going to beer fest April 8 evening).

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I was in the same shoes as you for awhile, hadvw. LGT was my only car and I wanted to enjoy it on long trips and still have fun on track. It worked well while the car was under 340 whp and I kept an eye on things like the oil level, ECU learning, etc. Now I have a different car for a daily so the LGT is more extreme. :lol:

 

Good info from boxkita. Some of it is overkill for HPDE if you just want to get your feet wet.

 

Seat time with instruction: #1 track mod

 

I use the stock seat belt, sometimes with a CG lock. If I don't run the CG lock, I pull the belt tight around my lap so it locks. My seat belt lock still seems strong. I also bought a Simpson neck support to reduce fatigue (https://www.pegasusautoracing.com/productselection.asp?Product=2120). If I was running a harness, I'd definitely run a Hans.

 

Helmet: You can wear glasses depending on the style of the frame. Open face helmets make it easier to wear glasses, but no chin protection. If you were wheel to wheel racing, I'd say run a full face helmet, no question. For HPDE, open face with SA2015 rating is good assuming your stock safety equipment is in place (airbags).

 

for 20-30 min. sessions I haven't felt the need to run a cool suit for a 90 degree day. I run FR racing gloves (great mod) and racing shoes. Through work I have FR pants and shirt I can wear too, so may do that instead of a full racing suit.

 

Hottest track day I did was close to 90 degrees ambient. Car ran 50/50 mix antifreeze and the overflow tank puked. I now run a Koyo radiator with more power and no problems so far.

 

Boxkita, do you run any additive with pure water in the radiator to prevent corrosion?

 

Throwing in a few gallons of race gas definitely helps. I'm sure that helped promote my stock engine's longevity with track use. If you're lacking cats, you can run 110 octane, otherwise 100 octane is ok.

 

The note about antifreeze should be in the supps for the track event. I would be surprised if it was allowed as a spill shuts down the track until its cleaned up. That's the Seattle area standard at any rate.

 

Antifreeze doesn't help, much, on track. If you need improved water, "Water Wetter" https://www.redlineoil.com/Products.aspx?pcid=10 is the goto product.

 

I used to run race gas everytime I could get it. My street car is tuned on 96 with that assumption. VP Racing & TurboBlue sell race gas is various configurations. Any race supply shop should be able to get it. You want to get it from a fresh barrel as it does have a shelf life unlike pump gas. Expect to pay ~10/gallon for race gas.

 

In order to get the right ratio on octanes you need a mixing chart. This article gets into details of octane and includes a mixing chart - http://www.superchevy.com/how-to/car-care/1509-everything-you-need-to-know-about-octane/ . Sunoco provides the math & phone number for help - http://www.sunocoracefuels.com/tech-article/mixing-fuels-calculating-octane . This page has details so you can use Sunoco's page - http://www.serioussolutions.com/evo/octcalc.htm . This is a pretty good chart and looks alot like the one I used - http://www.gnttype.org/techarea/misc/Octanemix.html .

 

I bought 5 gallon jugs of race gas and would haul them to the track. I'd fill up at a local pump that had pretty good 93 octane. Then add race gas thru out the day. I figured gas mileage at 10mpg in the early days and 7mpg towards the end (driving faster). I brought cash and would buy from the more serious people who brought their own barrels. If I had to revert to pump gas, I'd drive the car easier.

 

Yeah, my list is overkill. However, my track day adventures have been educational. Which is how I ended buying a race car.

 

=================

 

Starting out, you want a car that runs all day with no issues. If you are working on your car in the pits you can't be on track. A solid well put together car is more important than a fast car.

 

You've started making mods to your car for track days. Stop. Until you get a few days under your belt, you won't know what you need or don't need. Tires & brakes are the essentials. If your cooling system has problems on the road, you'll definitely have issues on the track.

 

The Ross Bentley books are to give you a common language with your instructors. The terminology used is confusing as heck, but important.

 

Your first couple of days, get an instructor for all day. Find one you can talk to and is not an asshole. If you can't along in the 5 minute introduction, you'll never make it in the car. If possible, get a ride in their car before you go out. Ask them to "talk" you thru the laps. It'll be overload for you, however, if they use the same words when you drive it will make sense faster.

 

Leave the transmission in Auto. Learning the course and where your car needs to be at a given time is far more important than shifting.

 

Driving fast down the straightaways is fun. Do it a couple of times. The rev limiter should kick in about 140mph. After that, forget about going fast on the straights. All straights end and require heavy braking to slow down, causing the brakes to overheat faster. I used a 100mph max speed on straights until I got the hang of the corners. Let everyone pass you. Its not a race. Your instructor should be able to help you get clear, or pull in the hot pits and ask control to give you some room.

 

Tires - anything will work. I did my first days on snow tires. If you are going to buy tires, look for something with large tread blocks on the outside. Or thin ones (Michelin Super Sports). The tread blocks get destroyed in track driving. Or get shaved tires (Toyo RA1 shaved to 4/32 is a good option). There's a science to tires on track. Forget the science, take the advice.

 

Tire pressure measuring - this important. Buy a small air compressor that plugs into your cigarrette lighter. $15 at Harbor Freight. Get their little tire gauge $4. or get a Longacre super duper gauge - http://www.longacreracing.com/products.aspx?itemid=1640 . I used the HF for the first year. Then I bought a Longacre liquid filled 4inch glow in the dark analog with bleed valve. The important part of this is "only use 1 gauge, ever". Swapping gauges doesn't make it more accurate, it just obsoletes your old data. The HF is pretty good.

 

Tire pressure setting - Tires cost money. It'll be your single biggest on-going expense, until you decide to make your car faster. Learning how to set the tire pressures to the optimal setting for tire life is important. Its the difference between tires every track day and every 20 track days. The LGT is heavy and stresses the tires. You'll have to overinflate (higher than the stated pressures) to cut down on rollover. Ask the locals what they use. For reference, my outside front corner was 51 cold, and the inside back corner was 38. This gave me 4 days on average on street tires. Get tire chalk, check your pressures before & after every session. Find the old geezer in the paddock who checks his tire pressures all the time. Bug him until he tells you how he does it. At ~$1000/set of tires, you're saving money.

 

Oil - learn from me. Check it all the time. A motor is expensive.

 

===================

 

Learning to be a better driver - all of the above are useless unless you improve as a driver. There's an old saying "a fast driver in a slow car will always be faster than a slow driver in a fast car". Don't be a slow driver -

. With that out of the way, get a track day app for your smart phone (Harry's laptimer for iphone and traqmate for Android). Install it and drive a loop around town to learn how to use it. When you have exceeded the limits of that system, get a gopro & an Aim Solo https://www.pegasusautoracing.com/productdetails.asp?RecId=8780&utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=MC-570&gclid=CN6qka2pgdMCFQyAfgodB-gLaw . Befriend Roger Caddell on FB, he's the national training instructor for AIM and teaches all over on how to use the AIM system. When this is not enough, you won't be getting advice from a LGT forum post.

 

Ride with every instructor you can find. Ask them questions about why they drive the course the way they do. Ask them to ride in your car and give suggestions. Don't try to impress them. Just show them how smooth you are.

 

Watch videos of people driving on the track you are going to. Try to find someone in a car like yours. Ask the local LGT drivers. They'll have a video or two.

 

===================

 

It's a track day. There's no money on the line. Go out and have fun. Don't worry about the rest of the stuff. In time, if you keep at it, you'll get plenty of advice on what to do/change/improve. You have at least 3 locals who have lots of experience to help you.

 

Good luck. post videos after you run.

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Boxkita, thanks again for all your advice.

 

I do feel you're giving me a bit of a mixed message here, though:

"you want a car that runs all day with no issues"

"-you've started making mods for track days. Stop. Tires & brakes are the essentials."

 

So far, I've proposed the following:

-wheels/tires

-brakes

-transmission cooler

-suspension

 

Outside of suspension, in my mind, all of those are to address either the "you need tires/brakes" and/or "you want a car that runs all day". I don't want to overheat my brakes after 10 minutes, first thing out, because I hit one turn too hard (I plan to be incredibly cautious/slow, but things happen). I don't expect to set track records. I plan to try to be smooth and learn a lot. But I'd rather know that my brakes are "decent" instead of "barely enough on the street". If I'm getting new lines anyway, the labor to add new calipers isn't much more (will probably have someone do this), and I'm (hopefully) getting the front brakes for a good price from Franz. For the rears, I want to upgrade because there's a better choice of pads, like RS4s, for example, and easier to swap pads and new calipers are more reliable than 12 year old calipers, generally.

 

Suspension is more because I know it's getting up there in age, and my general mechanic (not race oriented) mentioned that it looks like the shocks are getting weak. I will try cranking the Konis up to 11 to see if that changes anything - once in a while I bottom out going over speed bumps back driver's side with kids in the car. Might be a blown shock, but they all have 75k miles on 'em. Probably due for a new set. AFAIK, the KW V2 kit is considered a good-enough entry level coilover kit that it won't actually be worse than new Konis + springs and is acceptable for the track.

 

You can certainly talk me into:

-skip the KWs, get the Koni sport kit on sale for around $700, save $1k

-get a new Koyo rad (I had the OEM one replaced ~5 years ago, IIRC) instead with water + water wetter and replace any suspect hoses. Totally understand the cooling problem. Does the Koyo have higher cooling capacity compared to OEM?

 

As far as tires: I currently have some Pilot Sport AS3+ on the car (225/45/17, OEM wheels). They are at 2-3/32s as of last oil change all around. I.e. need a new set SOON. Ok to take to the track with the understanding that they'll pretty much end their life there? Or is that too far gone and could get dangerous? Either way, I'll need ANOTHER set of wheels/tires just in case I totally shred them.

 

They have, once again, worn out super fast (~20k or less, with a 45k guarantee, IIRC), because I do 90% city driving, or stop-and-go, and I'm not exactly easy on the tires. Last set, they gave me the pro-rated refund, and for something like $150-170, I was out the door with a new set. Should I get Pilot Sports this time, and use those for the track? Or get another set of wheels, as I proposed, and get tires for those and some more AS3s for the OEM wheels? I do need a set of tires that isn't destroyed for DD. Which is why I proposed some wider wheels/tires - if I'm buying wheels anyway, the TR Motorsports at $170 each aren't that much more than used OEM wheels.

 

Just to make it clear - I'm doing this:

1) I want to see if I like track days

2) We're probably keeping the LGT as a 3rd car when I buy another car in the next year or so. Depending on how much I like track days, that car may be something like an STI/Charger SRT/CTS-V to be more track focused, or if I decide I'm not "all in", maybe buy that Tesla 3 I put $1k down on when it becomes available and build the LGT up a little more for the track. Or don't do anymore to the LGT and forget about track.

3) I would probably do the brake/suspension upgrades as part of keeping the LGT anyway, because I've always disliked the brakes on the car and the suspension needs some work. If I decide to buy a T3 and build up the LGT more, I don't want to do it twice, which is why I'm asking about Koni vs KW, brake upgrade advice, etc.

 

--

 

Weekend project: adding a donut gasked to my CNT DP (not sure what happened to the OEM gasket - put the CNT back on last weekend), replacing all the exhaust hangers and if time, re-installing the GS TMIC.

 

Thanks again for everyone's input/advice. Most likely nothing will happen as far as actually getting to a track until after my vacation in June, but unless I start planning ASAP, the car won't be ready by then either..

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Boxkita, thanks again for all your advice.

 

I do feel you're giving me a bit of a mixed message here, though:

"you want a car that runs all day with no issues"

"-you've started making mods for track days. Stop. Tires & brakes are the essentials."

 

So far, I've proposed the following:

-wheels/tires

-brakes

-transmission cooler

-suspension

 

Wasn't trying to confuse. However, changing car parts to make a car more suitable for the track when its also a DD with kids is a waste of money. Set the car up so your kids have a decent ride. It'll still be ok for the track.

 

Track days are hard on tires, brakes, engines. If you are replacing OEM because its worn out, that's a good idea. Get good quality items that improve your 95% usage scenarios. Driving a track oriented car on the street is brutal.

 

Outside of suspension, in my mind, all of those are to address either the "you need tires/brakes" and/or "you want a car that runs all day". I don't want to overheat my brakes after 10 minutes, first thing out, because I hit one turn too hard (I plan to be incredibly cautious/slow, but things happen). I don't expect to set track records. I plan to try to be smooth and learn a lot. But I'd rather know that my brakes are "decent" instead of "barely enough on the street". If I'm getting new lines anyway, the labor to add new calipers isn't much more (will probably have someone do this), and I'm (hopefully) getting the front brakes for a good price from Franz. For the rears, I want to upgrade because there's a better choice of pads, like RS4s, for example, and easier to swap pads and new calipers are more reliable than 12 year old calipers, generally.

 

Suspension is more because I know it's getting up there in age, and my general mechanic (not race oriented) mentioned that it looks like the shocks are getting weak. I will try cranking the Konis up to 11 to see if that changes anything - once in a while I bottom out going over speed bumps back driver's side with kids in the car. Might be a blown shock, but they all have 75k miles on 'em. Probably due for a new set. AFAIK, the KW V2 kit is considered a good-enough entry level coilover kit that it won't actually be worse than new Konis + springs and is acceptable for the track.

 

You can certainly talk me into:

-skip the KWs, get the Koni sport kit on sale for around $700, save $1k

-get a new Koyo rad (I had the OEM one replaced ~5 years ago, IIRC) instead with water + water wetter and replace any suspect hoses. Totally understand the cooling problem. Does the Koyo have higher cooling capacity compared to OEM?

Brakes. I started on all OEM parts. I was several days in before replacing the lines (6 years ago). The pads were next and went for pads that worked well on the street. As my driving got better, I had to upgrade pads. Track pads on the street are a bad idea as they have to very hot relative to OEM pads before they work. The calipers are very good. Swapping pads quickly seems like a 5% solution, using better pads would be a better plan.

 

Skip the c/o. Get the Koni sport kit. Replace any suspension bits that are old or cracked or worn. Going to the Whiteline/Energy/etc bushing will improve the responsiveness but increase Noise Vibration & Harshness (NVH), meaning your kids might complain more.

 

Gex has a Koyo and swears by it. I have a mishimoto because my race shop suggested it. I used the original OEM radiator the entire time, even after the rebuild. YMMV. If you overheat on the street, get that issue fixed.

 

As far as tires: I currently have some Pilot Sport AS3+ on the car (225/45/17, OEM wheels). They are at 2-3/32s as of last oil change all around. I.e. need a new set SOON. Ok to take to the track with the understanding that they'll pretty much end their life there? Or is that too far gone and could get dangerous? Either way, I'll need ANOTHER set of wheels/tires just in case I totally shred them.

 

They have, once again, worn out super fast (~20k or less, with a 45k guarantee, IIRC), because I do 90% city driving, or stop-and-go, and I'm not exactly easy on the tires. Last set, they gave me the pro-rated refund, and for something like $150-170, I was out the door with a new set. Should I get Pilot Sports this time, and use those for the track? Or get another set of wheels, as I proposed, and get tires for those and some more AS3s for the OEM wheels? I do need a set of tires that isn't destroyed for DD. Which is why I proposed some wider wheels/tires - if I'm buying wheels anyway, the TR Motorsports at $170 each aren't that much more than used OEM wheels.

 

Tires used on track don't have warranties. You can make tires last longer on the track, but it takes work. If you drive the same tires on the street as you do on track, expect higher wear. I used Michelin Super Sports because they were a good tire for how I drive. I never got the rated 30k out of them. I averaged 15-18k per set. Get tires suitable for your 95% scenarios.

 

If you have money, after you decide you like going to the track, get a second set of tires & wheels. At 4x per year, there's no value now.

 

Wider tires don't make you faster on track. I used 17x8 & 18x8 rims. Either 235 or 225 tires. 235 was on a race slick. The 225 was the super sport. Both sizes were more about fitting the tire to the rim to prevent rollover.

 

Allseason tires are a compromise. In general, they suck in all conditions. I had a wheel/tire set for winter (blizzak) and a summer set (usually last year's best autox tire).

 

Just to make it clear - I'm doing this:

1) I want to see if I like track days

2) We're probably keeping the LGT as a 3rd car when I buy another car in the next year or so. Depending on how much I like track days, that car may be something like an STI/Charger SRT/CTS-V to be more track focused, or if I decide I'm not "all in", maybe buy that Tesla 3 I put $1k down on when it becomes available and build the LGT up a little more for the track. Or don't do anymore to the LGT and forget about track.

3) I would probably do the brake/suspension upgrades as part of keeping the LGT anyway, because I've always disliked the brakes on the car and the suspension needs some work. If I decide to buy a T3 and build up the LGT more, I don't want to do it twice, which is why I'm asking about Koni vs KW, brake upgrade advice, etc.

 

--

 

Weekend project: adding a donut gasked to my CNT DP (not sure what happened to the OEM gasket - put the CNT back on last weekend), replacing all the exhaust hangers and if time, re-installing the GS TMIC.

 

Thanks again for everyone's input/advice. Most likely nothing will happen as far as actually getting to a track until after my vacation in June, but unless I start planning ASAP, the car won't be ready by then either..

 

"I want to see if I like track days" - track days run nearly every weekend year-round. Get a free membership on motorsportreg.com. It lists all most track days in your area. Sign up for the Audi Golden Gate chapter. They have driver skills days - http://www.audiclubgoldengate.org/ . Also look at Hooked On Driving - https://www.hookedondriving.com/hooked-on-driving-region/California as they have driver skills built into their events.

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Thanks, that sounds more reasonable. I agree with what you said about brakes/pads. I plan to start with the RS4 pads all around (not available for LGT calipers, AFAIK), and good fluid + stainless lines. Then upgrade to better pads as needed. The part about swapping pads being easier is because I don't have all the time in the world - saving an hour the night before (or at the track) to change in racing pads is definitely worth some $$ to me. Maybe I'm overestimating it, but I've always hated trying to find something to rest the caliper on to avoid stressing it while swapping pads.

 

Ok, Konis + HR + new tophats it is. Are the KYB tophats decent? They're half the price of OEM, IIRC.

 

Don't really need a winter tire around here, just something that won't slip/slide in the rain (this winter we got a TON of rain), which is why the AS3+s - have always had good luck with Michelin and they're fine for me on the street - I don't drive THAT insane on the street - too much traffic most of the time. Haven't ever reached the limits of the AS3s/AS3+s.

 

Here, I've always just had the one set of wheels/tires and driven them year round. I know all about "no-season" tires - I grew up in south-western Ontario where we always had 2 sets of tires, always drove Z-rated UHP tires in the summer and snow tires in the winter. Did some all-night winter rallies in my Corrado VR6 + supercharger + Quaife + Bilstein PSS9s + GTI VR6 brakes. The STI with the all-season tires was the first one stuck in the snow bank.. (loved my Pilot Alpin snow tires!)

 

If I go to PSS tires this time around, I will probably need a set of tires that are better in the rain for the fall, so then I'm on to a second set of wheels/tires already, if not now, in the fall. Might as well get a better/lighter wheel + tire for the summer.

 

I don't overheat on the street now, except that one time going up to Tahoe (0 to ~7000 feet) on a really hot day. Other than that, have never seen the temp go above middle. On the other hand, both Koyo and Mishimoto are MT only, so I would definitely need the transmission cooler to get hooked up (which I would anyway).

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I went from OEM suspension to BC c/o. So have no experience with anything else. Which is why I know track cars suck as street cars. :-)

 

Based on what you have, I'd take it out as planned. suspension + brakes + a tire. You'll put alot of wear on the AS3 during a track day. Can't find the pics of mine. But the tread blocks were destroyed after a couple of days.

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More great info from boxkita :) Lots of nuances and things to learn

 

Koni's+springs are a great value. I ran Bilsteins+pinks for the longest time and they were great for DD and good entry for track. KW V2's ride nicely if you soften the damping a little bit for street.

 

An alignment helps prolong tire life. Around -1.25 degrees of camber up front will not cause much wear on the inside of the tire for street driving, especially if you are city driving and taking turns. The rear only needs a little bit of negative camber, and there isn't much adjustment anyway. 0 toe or a little toe out up front if you want.

 

Run a performance summer tire. My Hankook RS3's have done great in the rain, even at low tread depth and they are tolerable on the street too. I ran them for this track day and it was very damp:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YhvCRcoqAeI

 

Michelin are very good tires although expensive. Bridgestone or Hankook are comparable in performance at lower price.

 

My advice, run a 225/45/17 tire on a 17x8 or 17x8.5 wheel. The best performance summer tires have stiffer sidewall for less roll over/flex also. I run a 245/40/17 on 17x8.5 and you can see the rollover of the sidewall in this video:

 

Focus on the mods that improve driver feedback. Brakes and suspension fall into this category. Sometimes stiffer suspension helps you feel weight transfer better and the car responds quicker. Same with brakes and steering. When you feel when the tires are close to locking up or the car is at the limit, it helps you go faster.

 

Also the rear brakes don't do a whole lot on these cars. You can leave a stock pad or bobcat or whatever is back there and still run RS4 or track pad up front.

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Thanks Franz.

 

Ok:

-upgraded brakes on the front - when can I get them from you? :lol:

-stainless lines all around

-Bobcat pads on the rear? Or EBC Yellow stuff? RS4s on the front.

-RBF600 fluid? Or is there a better bang-for-buck?

-Konis + H&Rs + top hats

-17x8 wheels

-tires: Edit: Pilot Super Sports in 225-45/17 are $135 right now at Tire Rack - that's less than Hankook RS4s, and basically cheaper than any Bridgestone.. (same as S04, everything else is more). Which Bridgestone model?

-trans cooler

-replace various hoses/etc.

-water + water wetter

-lots of oil

 

-helmet

-gloves

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+1 to everyone's advice, just fix what you think is broken for now. You have good enough power mods already. Don't change suspension until there are things about the car's handling you want to adjust specifically beyond "omg teh understeer, gimme moar RSB". The way the car settles in between turns, the way it reacts to mid turn adjustments, the way it turns in, you won't feel that stuff until you a) get used to driving at an hpde, pointing people by, looking for corner workers, turns become second nature, etc, b) learn the line at that track and c) learn how car handles in each turn.

 

Get an instructor to sit with you so they can point out where you can improve.

 

I guarantee you won't be pushing it 10/10ths on day 1. It might feel super fast, but you'll only be hitting 50-60% of the max of your car.

 

kyb tophats are probly fine.

 

I use a mishimoto on my auto, works fine. No cooling issues when fluids are topped off.

 

motul or ATE synthetic brake fluid - i have a ton extra if you need some.

 

Bridgestone RE-71's are top notch if you can afford em.

 

skip the e85, none of our local tracks provide it at the track. You'd have to bring multiple jugs of it with you to last a day. I just add a couple things of octane booster to my tank just in case. Or you can do like others say and add a couple gallons of the 104+ octane.

 

Try to find a dry day in the spring to go out, summers can be brutally hot.

 

FWIW I may be selling my RCE coils with 9k/9k springs when you're ready for them down the line.

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Thanks Franz.

 

Ok:

-upgraded brakes on the front - when can I get them from you? :lol:

-stainless lines all around

-Bobcat pads on the rear? Or EBC Yellow stuff? RS4s on the front.

-RBF600 fluid? Or is there a better bang-for-buck?

-Konis + H&Rs + top hats

-17x8 wheels

-tires: Edit: Pilot Super Sports in 225-45/17 are $135 right now at Tire Rack - that's less than Hankook RS4s, and basically cheaper than any Bridgestone.. (same as S04, everything else is more). Which Bridgestone model?

-trans cooler

-replace various hoses/etc.

-water + water wetter

-lots of oil

 

-helmet

-gloves

 

I'll bring the front brake kit to the meet for you to check them out.

I'm not a fan of EBC brake pads. Carbotech pads are great. Bobcats would be a good rear choice with the front R4S.

 

ATE brake fluid is a great value. I also really like Prospeed RS683. It's the least compressible brake fluid I've found under $50/bottle.

 

Thats a great price for the Michelins. Bridgestone RE71 are the other ones. I need to buy a new set of wheels and tires for street and put my slicks on the SSR comps.

 

You may also want to replace the turbo oil feed line to a braided line if you haven't already done that. Cheap insurance since I have heard of the stock hard line fatiguing and cracking. Oil pressure gauge is nice to have if you don't already have one.

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