Questions for 3.6R owners

So here is the deal. My wife's '14 Crosstrek is due to be turned in at the end of November (lease). The current plan is for her to get my '10 Outback and I will get a new (to me) car. I have whittled it down to 2 cars, 10-12 GTI or 10-12 Legacy 3.6R. Totally different cars I know, but I have fallen for Subaru ever since we got my wife's Crosstrek. So much so, that I sold my Wrangler and bought the Outback.

 

I want a more performance oriented car, and as much as I would love to lower a 3.6R wagon, it's not going to happen ($$). I have not driven a 3.6R Legacy yet since the closest one is about 45 min away.

 

The Q's:

Are you happy with the 3.6R?

Would you rather have purchased a GT or 3.6R Outback?

How bad is the lag on the auto shifting? Will a tune fix this?

Hey Falcor,

 

The 5th gen 3.6R Legacy and 3.6R Outback are very similar in terms of handling and performance. You can try either one to get an idea of how you like them... with the main caveat being the suspension/steering differences introduces with the 2013+ facelift.

 

If you can afford it, consider picking up a 2013-2014 3.6R instead of the earlier model years. Otherwise, a 2010-12 3.6R might a. have the shimmy b. need new shocks/springs (at least the 2013+ OE combo) and as a result will not handle as well as a 2013-14 without some modifications ($$$). 2010-12s will also benefit from the latest ECU and TCU reflashes available from the Dealership (if not already applied). A fair amount has changed, even in the ECU mapping between 2010-12 and 2013-14 3.6Rs

 

To answer your questions:

 

1. Yes, very much so. Your 'mileage' might vary as its a personal choice/preference.

Primary use: DD, weekend fun car, project car, highway cruiser, any towing duty.

NA vs Turbo, Manual vs Auto vs CVT (on the 6th gen 3.6R).

Less/more mod-friendly, selection of aftermarket parts, maintenance concerns, etc.

 

2. Two different animals. Both great in their own respect.

I wish Subaru had offered us a 4th gen Legacy wagon with the EJ25 or FA20DIT and SI-drive like they did in other markets

or a 5th gen Legacy 3.6R with the JDM front suspension, a 6-speed manual and different gearing/final drive ratios.

Sadly, that never happened.

 

3. Yes, its fairly bad out of the box and with a stock tune. TCU ROM updates (again 2013s/14s come with them from the factory) and Rallitek 5EAT bushing insert have helped with this, but the biggest difference come from an in-direct tune (ECU changes that in-directly affect TCU and valve-body operation). XRT is the man to get this sorted for you.

I'll chime in as well

 

I agree with Perscitus, try to get a 2013-2014 model. While they are the "same" car, the 13 got a revised suspension that the 2010-2012 desperately needed. (Bigger bars, revised springs and struts, steering dampening ect)

 

1) Mileage is pretty good, tunes actually improve it. I get 18-20 city and 26-30 highway (at 75mph) . For a hulking AWD 6 cylinder thats pretty good.

 

Mods are getting a bit more common, with the emergence of R&D from some guys and learning that most of the suspension bits from a 5th Gen GT will fit right on up.

 

2) I am quite happy with the car, and unlike a lot of 6 cylinder cars there is torque in spades (especially if you go aftermarket route) so Daily driving in low RPMs is a bit easier then a GT. There are days I wish I got a GT, and there are days I am glad I didn't.

 

GT Pros

- 6 speed manual (duh)

- aftermarket for engine which can be derived from the 08-14 WRX

GT cons

- REQUIRES premium (though once you tune youre going to put premium in anyway so its a wash)

- has the same issues other 25EJ have including timing belts and some of the headgasket issues

 

3.6R Pros

- durable motor

- little maintenance

- no timing belt

- no headgasket issues

- no manual transmission option (thats both pro and con)

 

3.6R negatives

- aftermarket isn't nearly as big as GT but performance parts do exist

- stock 5EAT transmission shifting is goofy and leaves much to be desired

- outside of basic oil changes, when you do need to do work it can be a pain. for example spark plugs are a bear to change by yourself as they are under the motor

 

3) As Perscitus said, the autoshifting is pretty..well meh out of the box but with a proper tune (XRT recommended), that goes away pretty fast. I got the 2013/14 TCU Rom updates from Perscitus but to be honest the biggest change was the aftermarket tune.

 

Out of the box, the GT is definitely the better performer and the 6 speed helps, but with tunes and parts it becomes more of what do you want out of your car.

Can you do the tune where premium fuel is not needed? Where basically the shifting is fixed/improved.

You need to contact XRT (west_minist) and ask him, it should be possible to do.

 

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Can you do the tune where premium fuel is not needed? Where basically the shifting is fixed/improved.

 

I guess in theory you could de-tune the engine to run less boost/timing and therefore not have to work about knock but in that case I would just stick to the 2.5i

 

Shifting feel is improved more so by things like a short throw, bushing, shift kit, etc.

I guess in theory you could de-tune the engine to run less boost/timing and therefore not have to work about knock but in that case I would just stick to the 2.5i

 

Shifting feel is improved more so by things like a short throw, bushing, shift kit, etc.

 

H6 manual says we can run 87, the car does prefer better gas but its not going to kill it. I think hes looking more for the TCM updates (smoother and slicker shifts) and not the true power upgrades some of us want when we go to a tuner.

Option 3 that no one mentioned. Find a functioning 3.0R with the 6MT swap. Boost it. Everybody's happy.

H6 manual says we can run 87, the car does prefer better gas but its not going to kill it. I think hes looking more for the TCM updates (smoother and slicker shifts) and not the true power upgrades some of us want when we go to a tuner.

 

The power would be great. Just need to make the wife happy with halfway decent gas mileage. It is sounding like quite a bit needs to be done to the 3.6 to get it to where I would like.

 

Springs, Swaybars, Tune.......adds up pretty quick.

Falcor youve been pm'd

 

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Option 3 that no one mentioned. Find a functioning 3.0R with the 6MT swap. Boost it. Everybody's happy.

 

A cheaper route than doing an engine swap and then boosting said engine is to simply just boost the 3.6 engine you already have. There's a few people running around on these forums with supercharged 3.6Rs.

A cheaper route then doing an engine swap and then boosting said engine is to simply just boost the 3.6 engine you already have. There's a few people running around on these forums with supercharged 3.6Rs.

Go Porsche or go home

 

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Has anyone on this forum been ballsy enough to turbo a 3.6? I know some aussie channel (name escapes me atm) turbo'd the EZ36 and threw it in a first gen Legacy, but I'm wondering about on a 5th gen?

Has anyone on this forum been ballsy enough to turbo a 3.6? I know some aussie channel (name escapes me atm) turbo'd the EZ36 and threw it in a first gen Legacy, but I'm wondering about on a 5th gen?

It's more a money issue then anything...and you're thinking of supergramps from mighty car mods.

 

The H6 in it's stock form isn't good to boost. It'll need internal upgrades to turbo it, but if you want possibilities look at the twin turbo 3.6 Porsche builds

 

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I think the main issue would be packaging, with the 3.6 there would be no room for a turbo unless you did a remote mount turbo system. I imagine the 3.6 bay is pretty cramped as it is, especially with the special powertrain mounting points on the 5th gen.

1- Happy with the 3.6 YES

2-Nope, done rowing gears.

3- You learn what it will do and won't but will always want more.

 

Averaged 28~31 mpg at 85 mph in this heat and in the little mountains we have here on the East Coast with trunk stuffed and back seat carrying overflow. You want to pass going uphill doing 85 she'll take you to 100 no problem. The wife yelled at me a few times.

Are you happy with the 3.6R?

Overall yes, it's a very capable highway cruiser that anyone can pickup and drive and not be surprised by it. It has more than enough torque and acceleration for a DD and having a manual mode with 5 speeds still allows for fun.

 

Would you rather have purchased a GT or 3.6R Outback?

There are days where I wish it had a turbo and a 6 speed but that's not my purpose for owning this car. This is a grown up car compared to my 2002 WRX (which I still own). For it's intended purpose I'm impressed with the car.

 

How bad is the lag on the auto shifting? Will a tune fix this?

When I first got the car it was ATROCIOUS! However as you drive it it seems to learn how you want to drive it and just does it, after an ECU reset I've found it takes some time to relearn. The manual mode shifting is still pretty slow but I've found in auto mode that it responds better to small throttle inputs better than if you just mash the gas. A tune should fix this and possibly valve body mods but there is some differences with the 2010 5EAT and the earlier ones.

 

Overall I love this car but I did need some bushings to fix immediate issues. I got whiteline rear subframe bushings, RalliTek trans mount insert (go with the soft), and the Perrin Steering lockdown kit (http://perrinperformance.com/i-22342620-steering-dampener-lockdown.html). The bushings helped with engine braking and acceleration and the lockdown kit made the steering feel much more centered.

 

Also before you buy one drive it on the highway from 60-72 on a smooth road to see if it has the shimmy. I found that the lockdown kit didn't make mine any worse and that tire selection is the biggest factor that can be easily changed to mitigate the issue.

 

I've had the 3.6r for 2.5 years now and I average 18-22 city and 25-27 on the highway (By my own calculation, not the car's). It's easier to hit the upper end of those with higher octane fuel and the car also seems to run better on it so there's plenty of headroom for a tune on these.

 

EDIT: Changed mind on RalliTek bushing

I feel that if you don't want to go full out performance and don't care about NVH (Noise, Vibration, Harshness) that the hard RalliTek bushing will give you more engine noise in the cabin. I didn't want to put a cat-back or anything on yet but still wanted more motor noise and found that I was able to obtain this with the hard 5EAT bushing. It wasn't the reason I purchased it (the RalliTek page defaults to hard so triple check before ordering) but found that it gave me this unintended side effect. That's a plus to me but YMMV.

Are you happy with the 3.6R?

Overall yes, it's a very capable highway cruiser that anyone can pickup and drive and not be surprised by it. It has more than enough torque and acceleration for a DD and having a manual mode with 5 speeds still allows for fun.

 

Would you rather have purchased a GT or 3.6R Outback?

There are days where I wish it had a turbo and a 6 speed but that's not my purpose for owning this car. This is a grown up car compared to my 2002 WRX (which I still own). For it's intended purpose I'm impressed with the car.

 

How bad is the lag on the auto shifting? Will a tune fix this?

When I first got the car it was ATROCIOUS! However as you drive it it seems to learn how you want to drive it and just does it, after an ECU reset I've found it takes some time to relearn. The manual mode shifting is still pretty slow but I've found in auto mode that it responds better to small throttle inputs better than if you just mash the gas. A tune should fix this and possibly valve body mods but there is some differences with the 2010 5EAT and the earlier ones.

 

Overall I love this car but I did need some bushings to fix immediate issues. I got whiteline rear subframe bushings, RalliTek trans mount insert (go with the soft, I regret getting the hard one), and the Perrin Steering lockdown kit (http://perrinperformance.com/i-22342620-steering-dampener-lockdown.html). The bushings helped with engine braking and acceleration and the lockdown kit made the steering feel much more centered.

 

Also before you buy one drive it on the highway from 60-72 on a smooth road to see if it has the shimmy. I found that the lockdown kit didn't make mine any worse and that tire selection is the biggest factor that can be easily changed to mitigate the issue.

 

I've had the 3.6r for 2.5 years now and I average 18-22 city and 25-27 on the highway (By my own calculation, not the car's). It's easier to hit the upper end of those with higher octane fuel and the car also seems to run better on it so there's plenty of headroom for a tune on these.

Stupid amounts of headroom, esp with a few bolt ons. Tune fixes all lags, the weird bog at 4k and even the 5EAT shifting a bit slow or odd. Premium gas helps too

 

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Also before you buy one drive it on the highway from 60-72 on a smooth road to see if it has the shimmy. I found that the lockdown kit didn't make mine any worse and that tire selection is the biggest factor that can be easily changed to mitigate the issue.

 

I have the shimmy in my Outback. A tire a little out of balance will make it worse. I had the tires re-balanced and it helped a lot. Still noticeable, but I have learned to deal with it.

Yes I am happy and will be happier once I get it tuned by XRT. Already have Tactrix. Will schedule to make sure I have all updated ECU and TCM updates. Then eTuning.

 

At first I wanted the GT, but wife was pregnant and doesn't drive stick. So I chose 3.6R as I've seen what can be done with them performance wise and suspension wise. If you do in stages I would say with around $2-3k you could have a car that handles and peforms between a V6 G37 and a 6cyl M3. *rant*. I am thinking of going 13-14 Outback 3.6R. In wholesale distribution so having a truck would be ideal, but I think the added storage of the Outback could work. Or I might just buy a truck and keep both. Work truck, and night/weekend car.

 

The auto shifting could be better, but it is leaps and bound better than most paddle shifter cars I've personally driven. The tune I've only heard positive reviews, so as stated above I do look forward to it. Also XRT stated they could tune for better MPG under 3k RPMs. I know car can easily doe 90mph under 3k. I currently average 23-25 combined. I hope with re-tune I can average 26-28 mpg.

 

Conclusion: I highly recommended. First mods should be rear sway and stiffer shocks if you go 10-12. Plenty of power to enjoy stock for a while.

Can you do the tune where premium fuel is not needed? Where basically the shifting is fixed/improved.

I'm also tuned by xrt. Love it! I started out being tuned for 87 octane, but after a few rom revisions, we went to 91. The benefits were worth the $4 extra per tank.

 

Xrt also offers a transmission only tuning package, but trust me, you'll want to do the ecu as well. The car is so much more fun to drive.

 

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I have the shimmy in my Outback. A tire a little out of balance will make it worse. I had the tires re-balanced and it helped a lot. Still noticeable, but I have learned to deal with it.

 

This. For 2010-12 I guess it's hit or miss. I actually didn't notice it, believe it or not, when I had winter tires on. It was when I went back to the stock Bridgestone Turanza's it would randomly show it's ugly face. It's almost as the shimmy happens when it wants. Tends to be on very cold nights that the shimmy happens. Roadforce Balance just about clears it up. I think once I get new wheels/tires it'll be taken care of. I also think the Perrin Steering Damper Lockdown might have cleared it up a tad too.

 

Yes I am happy and will be happier once I get it tuned by XRT. Already have Tactrix. Will schedule to make sure I have all updated ECU and TCM updates. Then eTuning.

 

Also XRT stated they could tune for better MPG under 3k RPMs. I know car can easily doe 90mph under 3k. I currently average 23-25 combined. I hope with re-tune I can average 26-28 mpg.

 

You'll laugh like a little kid once you get tuned. I highly suggest working out the suspension and getting the 5EAT "soft" bushing insert before you raptor the hell out of it. Oh and brakes. Don't forget those Those stop signs will appear out of nowhere.

 

I do get decent gas on the highway if I set it to cruise but if you have a lead foot expect to pay for it.

 

I'm also tuned by xrt. Love it! I started out being tuned for 87 octane, but after a few rom revisions, we went to 91. The benefits were worth the $4 extra per tank.

 

Xrt also offers a transmission only tuning package, but trust me, you'll want to do the ecu as well. The car is so much more fun to drive.

 

I went with 93 octane because 91 is actually harder to find around here than 93. Not actually sure if it's worth it with stock exhaust. I'm gonna be excited when the day comes to do a cat back exhaust. I said I was gonna keep this car stock until the warranty was up lolwut

You'll laugh like a little kid once you get tuned. I highly suggest working out the suspension and getting the 5EAT "soft" bushing insert before you raptor the hell out of it. Oh and brakes. Don't forget those Those stop signs will appear out of nowhere.

 

Had a situation on my way to work today that secured in the need for this in my mind. Was coming up to a street, had to turn right, was in the left lane, slow car in front of me, line of tailgating slow cars next to me (and the generally dickheaded attitude of most Illinois drivers). Lead car of the tail gate pack slowed enough to make a gap, sped up a bit and took it, had plenty of time to stop before the stopped car I was coming up to, but even under like 80%-90% braking, it was still a bit too close for comfort haha. Get brakes.

Regarding above comment. If you don't plan on tracking the car, I would suggest upgrading the pads and brake lines. The OEM rotors will work fine. I upgraded to Hawk Performance Ceramic and Hawk Sector 7 rotors, but honestly wish I bought S/S lines. Will have to tackle that step in near future.

There's also the cusco master cylinder brace to help. I put on the centric premium rotors (people use them for track duty even though they are below the stoptech ones) and centric posi quiet ceramic pads. But the hawks are next whenever these goes

 

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