Suspension Upgrade question:

So far, on my '05 LGT non-limited wagon, steering and suspension-wise it's pretty stock. With the exception of a 21mm rear sway bar w/poly.

 

Now, do any of the other braces I see make any sense to install? Like a front strut tower, rear tower brace, sub-frame, or even one that I saw goes under the rear bumper cover of the wagon, if you'd take it off?

 

Also, I'm wondering how that would change the cornering of the vehicle, i.e. oversteer/understeer. I wouldn't mind a bit more oversteer(within reason) but more understeer would be no bueno. I don't want to add a front strut tower brace, if it's just gonna plow off the road in snowy or slick conditions. Also, I'm not planning racing it, but sometimes I have fun. It's a daily driver, but safety is preferable at this point.

 

Thanks

As a basic rule, the stiffer you make the rear end the more it is likely to oversteer vs understeer, and likewise the stiffer you make the front the more likely it is to understeer. By putting a larger rear swaybar and keeping the stock front you are making a great move towards balancing out the car. The reason cars come with a bigger front swaybar is because that is the easiest way for manufacturers to tune in understeer which is easier to correct safely for your average driver. With upgrading the rear sway bar you should also get some rear sway bar brackets to fully take advantage of the bigger sway bar, the stock mounts are very flimsy and can be moved by just pushing on them. Avo makes brackets, I made my own brackets and I could make some for you if you are interested, it would be alot cheeper than avo. You could also make some if you know how to weld. As far as tower braces it is just going to further increase your chassis stiffness which is never bad, you just have to try and keep the stiffness balanced or rear biased from the sound of what you are looking for in driving characteristics.

As a basic rule, the stiffer you make the rear end the more it is likely to oversteer vs understeer, and likewise the stiffer you make the front the more likely it is to understeer. By putting a larger rear swaybar and keeping the stock front you are making a great move towards balancing out the car. The reason cars come with a bigger front swaybar is because that is the easiest way for manufacturers to tune in understeer which is easier to correct safely for your average driver. With upgrading the rear sway bar you should also get some rear sway bar brackets to fully take advantage of the bigger sway bar, the stock mounts are very flimsy and can be moved by just pushing on them. Avo makes brackets, I made my own brackets and I could make some for you if you are interested, it would be alot cheeper than avo. You could also make some if you know how to weld. As far as tower braces it is just going to further increase your chassis stiffness which is never bad, you just have to try and keep the stiffness balanced or rear biased from the sound of what you are looking for in driving characteristics.

 

The brackets sound good, I kinda noticed the weakness of that part when I cleaned the bushings last. As far as the strut bars go, I don't really want to cut into the carpet and floor mat in the hatch, so the front strut mount bar would be the only one I'd do, and I'm not sure if that's worth any extra understeer.

I’m actually surprised you want more oversteer.

 

I added a Jdm 20mm rear sway bar and poly bushings almost a month ago and this thing actually feels like I’m steering the car instead of it wanting to plow into oncoming traffic.

It does have a tad bit of under steering on slight corners if I’m just cruising. But add a little more gas and it’s completely neutral again.

 

But when I’m driving on some back roads having a little bit of fun. It goes whenever I steer it to. Honestly if I had any more over steering I swear my tail end would Probably completely kick out.

I'm not sure how much the s402 style rear wagon strut bars go for but I think they are a drop in replacement (could be totally wrong) and I think there are some I've seen that go in and across wagon open area. My understanding is that strut bars don't do nearly as much as other things.

 

I know this isn't what you asked about, but the car is nearly fifteen years old. What condition are your struts in? What about all the bushings rear and front? Top hats? You could do ky-b struts front, the 04 ky-b rears, and group n top hats and if you're still on all original items it'll feel like a new car. While you're in there, I'd replace any bushing you can get to and the lower control arms with mevotech ones (but maybe swap out that bushing that comes with them).

 

All new bushings and dampers will make the car feel brand new again. Going to the previous Gen rear dampers will stiffen the rear slightly and the top hats all around will stiffen everything evenly. Replace lower control arms with lighter aluminum ones and same for trailing arms in the rear and you'll lose some unsprung mass. Overall you'll get all around better suspension with no ride height change and a touch more oversteer.

 

(In theory. I have yet to do any of the things above I mention)

 

 

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I've thrown a lot at the steering except a new STI rack. I'm resigning myself to accept that the LGT wagon was designed as a touring, relaxed grocery getter. Trying to force it to do what it wasn't designed for has diminishing returns.

 

Here is a list of things I have done to steering/suspension. That might give some ideas.

 

22mm front sway bar

20mm rear sway bar

AVO rear sway bar bracket (a must if you have an upgraded swaybar)

Energy suspension greasable sway bar bushings front/rear

Kartboy Front endlinks

Whiteline adjustable rear endlinks

Whiteline steering rack bushings

Cusco Steering Rack Brace

STI Steering U-Joint knuckle (Perrin makes something similar)

KYB Excel-G front and rear struts

Stock Top hats (which I had gone group N)

King lowering springs front, Eibach springs rear

I've been seeing more about the steering. Does it make much difference? I've basically not gotten to drive my obxt and I'm coming from a completely beat civic. So even the rear wagon sway bar feels great to me.

 

Can you quantify the steering? Less floaty? Quicker lock? Does it have an issue with progressive weird feelings in hard corners as stock?

 

 

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I’m actually surprised you want more oversteer.

 

I added a Jdm 20mm rear sway bar and poly bushings almost a month ago and this thing actually feels like I’m steering the car instead of it wanting to plow into oncoming traffic.

It does have a tad bit of under steering on slight corners if I’m just cruising. But add a little more gas and it’s completely neutral again.

 

But when I’m driving on some back roads having a little bit of fun. It goes whenever I steer it to. Honestly if I had any more over steering I swear my tail end would Probably completely kick out.

 

I've never been able to get the rear loose. It just sticks(which is kinda good) and plows(understeer) before doing anything. My last ride was an old Volvo 240 wagon, so getting that thing loose wasn't too difficult. Go in hot, turn the wheel and floor it, lol.. This is all in a Winter situation, btw.

Maybe I was spoiled by the ol' Swedish meatball, but I'd love to get a bit of that fun back. That's why I'd like to find a way to dial in a bit more oversteer without having to resort to pulling the hand brake in a corner. Unless a bit more oversteer is going to turn it into an oversteer machine, maybe I don't want to encourage it?

I'm not sure how much the s402 style rear wagon strut bars go for but I think they are a drop in replacement (could be totally wrong) and I think there are some I've seen that go in and across wagon open area. My understanding is that strut bars don't do nearly as much as other things.

 

I know this isn't what you asked about, but the car is nearly fifteen years old. What condition are your struts in? What about all the bushings rear and front? Top hats? You could do ky-b struts front, the 04 ky-b rears, and group n top hats and if you're still on all original items it'll feel like a new car. While you're in there, I'd replace any bushing you can get to and the lower control arms with mevotech ones (but maybe swap out that bushing that comes with them).

 

All new bushings and dampers will make the car feel brand new again. Going to the previous Gen rear dampers will stiffen the rear slightly and the top hats all around will stiffen everything evenly. Replace lower control arms with lighter aluminum ones and same for trailing arms in the rear and you'll lose some unsprung mass. Overall you'll get all around better suspension with no ride height change and a touch more oversteer.

 

(In theory. I have yet to do any of the things above I mention)

 

 

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Everything is pretty solid. I'm not sure when all that was done last, but I just put in $1000 to the front suspension and steering. Maybe the rear needs attention? But it feels good, like a brand new car. Just a bit of understeer when I blast through a corner. And yes, I wait until after the apex..

Well you've got many more options in the lgt wagon than I do on the outback. But the basis is correct as mentioned above. Tighter rear more over steer. So if your struts are in good shape and you've got an upgraded rear sway then you may just need an overall stiffer suspension or maybe stiffer rear springs. I think all the bracing is really meant for those guys on the track. It seems the feel change is subtle on the road.

 

 

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Well you've got many more options in the lgt wagon than I do on the outback. But the basis is correct as mentioned above. Tighter rear more over steer. So if your struts are in good shape and you've got an upgraded rear sway then you may just need an overall stiffer suspension or maybe stiffer rear springs. I think all the bracing is really meant for those guys on the track. It seems the feel change is subtle on the road.

 

 

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That's a great idea. Stiffer rear springs! Are there any good brands out there? I really like the stock height. Also, are they a pain to change?

I've only done springs once and on my civic. I wasn't a fan. But it's not really that bad. I think King makes the stock height outback overload springs but I don't know about for the LGT wagon. I think you have a LOT of options. I'd start by looking for overload springs, which are great for carrying any weight in the rear. I would think those would be best for keeping stock height but I will defer to others on this.

Come to think of it, my bro(P.O) had Bilstein HD's all around and said he didn't like the ride. Way too harsh over these WI roads. So before he sold me the car, he switched them back to the stock shocks and struts. So, he said in theory, they should be pretty fresh.

 

Guess this goes to show, you can upgrade the crap out of all the suspension with HD and poly everywhere, but when the comfort gets compromised, it can be annoying. I mean, you're cruising 95% of the time, and "extreme" cornering like 5% of the time. Is it worth it? I might forego the tower braces after thinking about it.

your choice of wheels and tires will impact your overall ride.

your choice of wheels and tires will impact your overall ride.

 

Firestone Firehawk Indy 500 for Summer, Hankook Winter IPike RS for Winter

Perrin makes a lock down kit for the steering coupler that is worth adding. Tightened up the steering without adding an STi rack.

 

 

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Edited October 26, 2019 by VespaGTS

Well you've got many more options in the lgt wagon than I do on the outback. But the basis is correct as mentioned above. Tighter rear more over steer. So if your struts are in good shape and you've got an upgraded rear sway then you may just need an overall stiffer suspension or maybe stiffer rear springs. I think all the bracing is really meant for those guys on the track. It seems the feel change is subtle on the road.

 

 

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Probably 90% or more parts from the legacy are transferable to the Outbacks, I have an 05 outback with legacy coilovers, legacy bushings, legacy swaybars. For some reason when you look for parts for outback the options look slim, that's why I just put legacy gt when I am searching for parts

Probably 90% or more parts from the legacy are transferable to the Outbacks, I have an 05 outback with legacy coilovers, legacy bushings, legacy swaybars. For some reason when you look for parts for outback the options look slim, that's why I just put legacy gt when I am searching for parts

 

 

 

No for sure. I suppose I should have added in for stock or close to stock ride height. Many sites don't even list the outback and I just use the legacy. I want to see how the summer goes before lowering mine any. I get into the desert on occasion.

 

 

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