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Sway Bar question - all 6th Gen Legacies?


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Beamer .. what a surprise that you have come out in support of the OP [emoji38]

 

 

 

I think the OP's statement "that these things are DANGEROUS on the highway" deserved ridicule, as have some of your previous statements .. not all, but definitately some. (Just for one example, when you complained about poor vehicle tracking but admitted that you had mismatched tires fitted?????)

 

 

 

I have no problem with you and anyone else expressing an opinion on the road holding capabilities of these vehicles, and then suggesting mods that might give them their preferred ride .... but to make a blanket statement that "these things" ... (meaning thereby ALL these cars) are "dangerous on the highway" is in my opinion, without evidence and baseless.

 

 

 

That is not to say that you haven't had problems with your car ... and I have previously said that if what you are saying is genuine, then you must have a real lemon, and like many other forum members, I can't believe why you have not ditched the car. But your individual unfortunate experience does not justify you, or the OP, to categorically state that "these things are dangerous on the highway" ..... there might well be other vehicles that perform better on the highway ( I don't know for a fact if that is true or not, but let's assume it is) ... but to label ALL these Subaru models as DANGEROUS, is with respect, stupid.

Agree with all of this.

 

And I've driven my 2016 3.6 at the ridiculous driver's license losing speed of 115, on a highway, and never once felt in danger or close to losing the car. That kind of talk is simply over exaggeration and rightfully so called out.

 

 

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

Edited by hkshooter
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Wow. IMPO you calling him out for a simple statement of his experience prior to his upgrades is.... I don't believe in labeling or putting people into boxes.

 

Beamer .. what a surprise that you have come out in support of the OP :lol:

 

I think the OP's statement "that these things are DANGEROUS on the highway" deserved ridicule, as have some of your previous statements .. not all, but definitately some. (Just for one example, when you complained about poor vehicle tracking but admitted that you had mismatched tires fitted?????)

 

I have no problem with you and anyone else expressing an opinion on the road holding capabilities of these vehicles, and then suggesting mods that might give them their preferred ride .... but to make a blanket statement that "these things" ... (meaning thereby ALL these cars) are "dangerous on the highway" is in my opinion, without evidence and baseless.

 

That is not to say that you haven't had problems with your car ... and I have previously said that if what you are saying is genuine, then you must have a real lemon, and like many other forum members, I can't believe why you have not ditched the car. But your individual unfortunate experience does not justify you, or the OP, to categorically state that "these things are dangerous on the highway" ..... there might well be other vehicles that perform better on the highway ( I don't know for a fact if that is true or not, but let's assume it is) ... but to label ALL these Subaru models as DANGEROUS, is with respect, stupid.

 

 

i am sure that on the older 13-14 cars the sensitivity of the power steering has a lot to do with it... I keep my tires at 32PSI and along with the 20mm rear bar, the twitching going down the road is gone... it will start to return as i jack up the tire pressure to 35psi.

 

 

Agree with all of this.

 

And I've driven my 2016 3.6 at the ridiculous driver's license losing speed of 115, on a highway, and never once felt in danger or close to losing the car. That kind of talk is simply over exaggeration and rightfully so called out.

 

 

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

 

 

I can neither confirm nor deny that the top speed of a 2.5 Legacy is 130mph...(let's just say the state trooper was surprised and all I got was a warning.. if it were to have happened)

Edited by YeuEmMaiMai
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19mm? Go with the 20mm STi bar and dont look back. It's under 100 dollars. If you can afford, get a set of kartboy rear endlinks with it, when you replace the stock ones with the kartboy you'll see why and thank me

 

At SubaruOnlineParts its 88.45 with the 20mm bushings. Cheaper than I found the 19mm.

https://subaruonlineparts.com/mobile/subaru-outback-rear-20mm-sway-p-3969.html

Edited by JRu17
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You're right the language was extreme, my apologies...but the tire pressure issue made the car very twitchy....and as I do drive very aggressively and came from a wrx and optima sxt, both with tighter suspension, it took me by surprise how different it was and how much it seemed to wander around.

 

The main point you should take from my post is that those upgrades were awesome and they weren't expensive. Anyone who does spirited driving should consider them.

 

Sent from my HTC U11 using Tapatalk

 

Thanks for the explanation Doug ... I get your main point, and I have no problem with it. I am not a "spirited driver" (if that means taking corners hard) but I do a lot of straight line highway driving (at allowable high speeds) and my vehicle, with no after market sway bar, drives as straight as an arrow.

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19mm? Go with the 20mm STi bar and dont look back. It's under 100 dollars. If you can afford, get a set of kartboy rear endlinks with it, when you replace the stock ones with the kartboy you'll see why and thank me

 

At SubaruOnlineParts its 88.45 with the 20mm bushings. Cheaper than I found the 19mm.

https://subaruonlineparts.com/mobile/subaru-outback-rear-20mm-sway-p-3969.html

 

https://www.kartboy.com/collections/2005-legacy/products/sti-droplinks

 

These?

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Have you seen them next to the kartboy links? When you upgrade the swaybar and leave the stock links you're only as strong as the weakest part

 

I had a 25mm (hollow) bar on my '08 STI and eventually installed Perrin pillow-ball endlinks. I had to replace them within short period because they were rattling so badly. The replacements were perfect, but my point is: not all aftermarket links are perfect.

 

To answer your question, yes, I have seen many of the aftermarket links and what you need to realize, is that there's a huge difference between what's more than adequate for the vast majority of applications (stock links) and what's possibly more than adequate for a few more applications (aftermarket links)...

 

I haven't seen any broken links, to be honest. What I have seen, is bent links. In this case, the bar is still doing its job, and the remedy is to replace that link. IIRC, these things bend only when something catastrophic happens, like hitting a pothole or something.

Edited by gathermewool

'15 FB25

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RSB, Fr. Strut Bar, Tint, STI BBS, LED er'where

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That's the reason I went kartboy. From back in my WRX days I remember other brands were noisy. I havent heard one noise or experienced any NVH from kartboy. And yes bent links mean you arent getting the full benefits from your upgrade.
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That's the reason I went kartboy. From back in my WRX days I remember other brands were noisy. I havent heard one noise or experienced any NVH from kartboy. And yes bent links mean you arent getting the full benefits from your upgrade.

 

That's if you have a problem with stock, which I haven't seen much of.

 

If the endlink is bent permanently, all it's doing is pre-loading the suspension a bit. You're still getting the benefit. It should, however, be replaced immediately due to concerns of full-on failure.

'15 FB25

Magnatec 0W-20 + FU filter (70,517 miles)

RSB, Fr. Strut Bar, Tint, STI BBS, LED er'where

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If you obey the speed limit and don't push it much in the corners or on curving onramps a sway bar upgrade is not necessary.

 

If you drive a little more aggressively, you will certainly feel the difference with the upgrade to a stiffer rear sway bar, and you will feel it immediately on your test drive after you put it on.

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Even without pushing the car, the sway bar made a huge difference for me. I came from an Alfa Romeo and 2 BMWs that always felt anchored to the road.

Since the Legacy isn't really designed as a sport sedan it feels a bit light. (Of course my wife loves her forester and always HATED driving my European cars).

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So, I had my Legacy on the highway for the first time - about 70/75 mph or so. And when I first got up to speed, there was a very odd sensation that there was a significant crosswind.

 

I don't know if it was one of these things... I'm leaning towards #3 because it seemed to get better as I drove:

 

1. Suspension "challenges" (would a sway bar change help?)

2. EyeSight messing with me

3. Simply adjusting myself to the steering sensitivity of the Legacy.

 

To be fair... my last car was a MB E350. That car just tracked and actually got better with speed.

 

So, a quick follow-up on my own post. I had the car back on the highway for a longer trip, and I think I figured out that it was #2. Turned it off, and it felt just fine to me. Disappointing though - I really like the LKAS feature in my wife's Honda (when I'm feeling lazy on long drives).

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  • 4 weeks later...
Has anyone noticed a ride detriment with the bigger 22mm swaybars? I drive some really, really rough sealcoated roads that are twisty as heck. Car still rides great but not over that garbage. Getting outhandled by Traverses and Cherokees in it.

 

Well, having stiffer set up on a very rough road is often not beneficial. With stiffer suspension, your wheels lose contact with the road when you go over imperfections easier than somewhat softer set up. That means you lose grip and that's why you're getting outhandled by SUVs which have softer set up (in relation to you).

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  • 2 weeks later...
Benefits are solely in the seat of the pants of the beholder. The rear suspension of all Gen 6 Legacys is virtually identical, so the effect of a different RSB will be the same across model years.

 

There was nothing to "correct." Subaru engineers chose what they considered to be the optimum rear roll stiffness for "average" driving environments. Some drivers prefer it to be stiffer, and Subaru just happens to have other suitable RSBs in the parts bin.

 

My advice is to keep the OE 16mm RSB for at least 6 months, then replace it only if you decide you really need something stiffer. Consider that the 19mm RSB will be twice as stiff in torsion as the OE 16mm bar.

The average passenger car is usually is also engineered to have some under-steer because under-steer is generally more forgiving than over-steer.

 

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For normal driving, this is a VERY modest upgrade. When you get on it in the twisties (take a hard turn), is when you'll notice the benefit.

 

Sway bars are ONLY for when you're turning (i.e., the suspension is loaded). A RSB will transfer grip from rear to front, minimizing oversteer, making the car feel more tail-happy. Note: there's plenty of built-in under-steer, so don't worry about the car becoming unsafe with a 20mm OEM replacement.

 

I'm not going to cover imperfections in the road, for which a thicker anti-sway bar will increase harshness slightly.

A RSB gives you more over-steer, not less.

 

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A RSB gives you more over-steer, not less.

 

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and it does nothing to transfer grip to the front, it will however transfer load from side to side and that is where the increased grip comes from as load is transferred to the unloaded side from loaded side thus dong more to keep the car level...

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and it does nothing to transfer grip to the front, it will however transfer load from side to side and that is where the increased grip comes from as load is transferred to the unloaded side from loaded side thus dong more to keep the car level...

 

It does, in fact, transfer grip to the front. The front suspension will allow loading of the outside front tire more-so than the outside rear tire, as well as make the inside front tire less-prone to lifting. This = effective transfer of grip to the front...

'15 FB25

Magnatec 0W-20 + FU filter (70,517 miles)

RSB, Fr. Strut Bar, Tint, STI BBS, LED er'where

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It does, in fact, transfer grip to the front. The front suspension will allow loading of the outside front tire more-so than the outside rear tire, as well as make the inside front tire less-prone to lifting. This = effective transfer of grip to the front...

 

 

 

 

no it does not for any meaningful purpose

 

 

the RSB will twist as it is loaded and the result is the bar will apply force to the opposite side to resist that twisting

 

 

The FRONT sway bar will act exactly the same as it is loaded...it will be put under twisting force and it will resist that by applying load to the opposite side of the car to resist twisting

 

 

 

with a bigger RSB you are effectively lessening the load on the front bar and it works better on the front suspension as one would expect. same for a bigger FSB...

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no it does not for any meaningful purpose

 

 

the RSB will twist as it is loaded and the result is the bar will apply force to the opposite side to resist that twisting

 

 

The FRONT sway bar will act exactly the same as it is loaded...it will be put under twisting force and it will resist that by applying load to the opposite side of the car to resist twisting

 

 

 

with a bigger RSB you are effectively lessening the load on the front bar and it works better on the front suspension as one would expect. same for a bigger FSB...

 

So, you think under-steer and over-steer are a completely separate dynamic from overall grip (simply front/rear for this argument), and a change in one isn't due mostly to the other?

 

 

:munch:

Edited by gathermewool

'15 FB25

Magnatec 0W-20 + FU filter (70,517 miles)

RSB, Fr. Strut Bar, Tint, STI BBS, LED er'where

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So, you think under-steer and over-steer are a completely separate dynamic from overall grip (simply front/rear for this argument), and a change in one isn't due mostly to the other?

 

 

:munch:

 

 

uh a bar that exerts force on the opposite rear wheel has any ability to transfer weight to the front of the car. May I suggest you go under the car and have a look as to what the sway bar is connected to? let me give you a hint: the left rear wheel lower arm , 2 mounts on the body and the right rear wheel lower arm... ditto for the front left front wheel suspension 2 mounting points on the body and right front wheel suspension

 

 

all a anti roll bar does is resist roll aka lean in a turn, as a result the more you resist it the better able the suspension is able to keep the contact patch on the road on the side opposite of the lean (roll) as a result the car is more responsive to steering input, no weight is transferred front to back or vice versa...you want weight transfer front to back you either accelerate or brake and that is what VDC does (individual brake) per wheel to rotate the car as needed

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I didn't say WEIGHT was transferred; I said that GRIP was transferred. Weight does transfer, but that's not what we're discussing specifically, even though weight DOES affect grip in a very large way. We're talking specifically about grip transfer, all else being equal, with stiffer sways.

 

A lot of what you're saying is true, and before I continue I want to say: I think we're talking about the same thing, but in different languages. You seem to be literally talking about HOW something like a RSB WORKS mechanically, whereas I'm describing its effect on driving dynamics, i.e., grip.

 

All else being equal:

 

Stiffer rear end = grip transfer to front = less understeer or more oversteer

 

This all has its limits: have you ever seen someone lift an inside wheel during auto-X? I have. ow much grip do you think THAT tire has? Do you think the increased contact patch of the outside tire will compensate for a tire lifted or with less weight on it?

 

The answer: depends......AND.....stiffer isn't always better. Well, unless you just want to look like one of those jackholes who's riding on the bump stops, has massive sways and super low-pro tires, etc. He or she may feel like they're driving a go-kart (quite literally if riding on bump-stops), but they likely didn't take into consderation grip and may have made their car more prone to spin out in a hard turn than if they were stock (assuming tires with same grip in all conditions).

Edited by gathermewool

'15 FB25

Magnatec 0W-20 + FU filter (70,517 miles)

RSB, Fr. Strut Bar, Tint, STI BBS, LED er'where

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  • 10 months later...
So... I am having trouble finding the 19mm and/or the 20mm STI part numbers.... could someone please help me out and help this thread? ;) thank you!!

 

Back in 2010 when I bought mine, the part number for the MY11 WRX STI rear 19mm sway bar which came supplied with the rubber bushes was p/n 20451FG020.

 

If the bushes ever need replacing the part number for the 18mm ID rubber bushes to suit that 19mm bar was p/n 20464FG020.

 

I don’t know if the above part numbers were later changed. Someone may like to confirm if they are still the same.

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