Ethics and morals

I haven't started a thread for quite a while so I thought I would bring up something that has been bothering me quite a lot lately. My reason is because of reading about a number of people that are completely unhappy with their cars due to problems, and in some cases, self-induced problems.

 

As always, most of the threads are started by people having issues with their 4th Gens and some of them are small, some large, some ridiculous, some absolutely real, and of course, everyone jumps in to help and that is a terrific. It proves how much most of the members care to help out people that need guidance and explanations. I saw a thread where a member actually went to the efforts and made a video specifically to help someone out and that's why we are all involved here. It's what makes this forum so far ahead of the alphabet forums.

 

That being said, I also see a number of people that run into issues and basically berate the car, say it's junk, and then what's the next course of action? Of course, to fix it as minimally as possible and then trade it in or sell it. We have all seen how many threads? where someone says "I just bought the car and the turbo blew up" or "I bought this and driving it home, it started knocking" and when you consider how much of a bind that puts someone in, did they "get stuck" with someone's minimally repaired vehicle they traded in? How does that make the person that traded it in/sold it feel? I would have difficulty living with myself.

 

It's a huge ethical issue that seems to be fine with some people-the car is blowing up or has a transmission that's failing or has a turbo making noise or has a cylinder with low compression-so I'll stick some unsuspecting poor sap with my junk that failed and I'll go off into the sunset happy while their ass is burned completely, souring them forever on these cars.

 

I don't get along well with this idea and frankly it pains me to see how many people seem to say "it will be someone else's problem now" and then dump the car. I know that if I happened to buy one of these cars, i would be extremely pissed if it blew up or had major problems, especially if I had to finance it.

 

I ask everyone to stop and think about putting themselves in the buyer's position before they just decide to drop their problems into someone else's lap. It's truly unethical to yourself, to whomever ends up with the car. It's unfair, it's costly to the point of putting some people in true financial jeopardy, and it's basically making people hate Subaru, Legacy GT's, turbo cars in general, and the forums.

 

I do also hope the people that have "been stuck" with someone else's junk will chime in as to how much it's damaged their initial attraction to Subaru's, specifically Legacy GT's, and let us all know how much it did hurt, both in their opinions of a fine car and also how drastically they were hurt financially in trying to repair something they thought was a fine car.

 

Again, not pointing fingers, but honesty is something I cherish. I work hard to make sure that everyone I'm involved with knows exactly where I come from and they KNOW that what I tell them is the truth.

 

Off my soap box now. Let the comments or if you feel you can actually justify this kind of behavior, attempt to flame me. I promise if you do attempt this, I WILL fire back and it won't be very pretty.

I knew I was buying a time bomb before I flew down to colorado to pick up my 2006 outback xt limited 5mt in black on black with 100k on the clock. I knew how many owners it had and I knew I was potentially buying someone elses problem. Every single car I have owned I have been suspicious of as I have bought them all used. That is just the fact of used car culture that we live in today. Unless the car has the honda/toyota/hyundai badge you need to expect problems after 100k. All Turbo cars have the same issues and in many ways is worse for other makes. I do not blame other people selling their used cars because they no longer want to put money into it. And frankly it's on the buyer in all cases to have their future purchase inspected by a third party. That's the culture that exists and it has little to do with morals.

 

If we were moral people we would bring homeless people into our homes and treat them like family until they were back on their feet. Culture makes it acceptable to not look them in eye while they beg for their daily bread or money that they may spend on drugs to escape their psychological pain or the harshness of living on the streets. But culture says it ok to do otherwise and we do.

 

Now on the other hand if you have a car that is going to explode any minute and you sell it to someone without at least slightly implying they should get it checked out, well yeah that makes the seller a shitbag, but again the responsibility exists on the buyers behalf.

 

We buy new cars to avoid these issues.

Its stuff like this I see daily on facebook and other more up and coming social media sites... even nastysock lately. makes me frustrated to the point where my wife tells me to take a break

 

I am often frustrated by the amount of people that are buying these cars that are just plain uneducated; and unwilling to put in the time to gain the amount of knowledge needed BEFORE they make a purchase or a decision on a change/mod to the car. Everyone just wants the quick answer and won't take the time to research.

 

Honestly, this is about the last forum I frequent that has such a solid member base and I enjoy reading all of these posts (ok.. most of them, lol). But how many new members might join and post the same old story over and over again before we give up? I don't know... I just hope the forums stay up. A local ohio subaru forum Ive been part of since 2008 shut down due to inactivity (aka everyone's now on facebook).

This is a tough one and is the number one reason I won't buy/sell cars with anyone I know personally.

 

These types of deals are "as-is." The phrase "buyer beware" comes to mind. Anyone investing in a vehicle should budget to also have that vehicle inspected by their own mechanic before completing the purchase. It is your responsibility to understand what you are buying.

 

So, I will take the low road here and say that as long as you are not buying/trading the car with SAFETY issues, then you are free of responsibility for performance/functional issues and have no moral obligation to disclose them or let them influence your price... it just makes you a giant chode if you go that route.

 

Obviously, if you are truly unaware that there are issues and/or they just happen to come up immediately after purchase... that's life I guess.

 

If you knowingly sell a car that has safety issues, you are a dick and if someone gets hurt, you have the blood on your hands as far as I am concerned. If you refuse to disclose issues you know of but don't outright lie, yeah, you are a douchebag but that is as far as it goes. However, if you intentionally lie in order to get the sale... that's just wrong and you deserve whatever ill comes your way.

 

That being said, I do believe most people are open and honest about the condition of their car. If someone can't or won't tell you the pros and cons of the car in writing, or won't let you have it inspected... run away. That is just being a smart consumer. Protect yourself at all times and don't trust anything someone selling something says.

 

Just my .02

Its stuff like this I see daily on facebook and other more up and coming social media sites... even nastysock lately. makes me frustrated to the point where my wife tells me to take a break

 

I am often frustrated by the amount of people that are buying these cars that are just plain uneducated; and unwilling to put in the time to gain the amount of knowledge needed BEFORE they make a purchase or a decision on a change/mod to the car. Everyone just wants the quick answer and won't take the time to research.

 

Honestly, this is about the last forum I frequent that has such a solid member base and I enjoy reading all of these posts (ok.. most of them, lol). But how many new members might join and post the same old story over and over again before we give up? I don't know... I just hope the forums stay up. A local ohio subaru forum Ive been part of since 2008 shut down due to inactivity (aka everyone's now on facebook).

 

Which one was that? F4's NEOSOC?

I had so many opportunities to ditch my car "as is" to knowing sound parties and take on another unknown car just to be back on the road again. I already know the flaws of what I got and don't want to take on someone else hidden issues.

Which one was that? F4's NEOSOC?

I was talking about centralohiosubarus actually, since I lived in Columbus for a while and was very active on there for a long time.

I blew up my car the first time I shook it down. Top of 3rd gear the oil pump let loose, maybe 8 hours after I bought it. I'm pretty sure the oil pick up tube was cracked.

 

I knew something wasn't quite right with the car when I bought it but I made sure to cover my ass and get very detailed warranty information.

 

The dealer I bought it from did a full rebuild with a new oem short block and 50k, 5 years later I haven't had any issues with it.

 

It's all about knowing your rights as a buyer before you buy the car.

The old saying of "do unto others" is really what things should be all about. There are far too many people in this would that don't look out for anybody but themselves. I don't understand how somebody can be ok with screwing other people over, and then have the balls to question other people's integrity. As far as I'm concerned, if you are shitty enough to take advantage of somebody for a little extra $, you deserve all the shitty karma that comes your way.

The old saying of "do unto others" is really what things should be all about. There are far too many people in this would that don't look out for anybody but themselves. I don't understand how somebody can be ok with screwing other people over, and then have the balls to question other people's integrity. As far as I'm concerned, if you are shitty enough to take advantage of somebody for a little extra $, you deserve all the shitty karma that comes your way.

 

Reason I been on a buy new vs gently used or leased 3 year old cars. GM didn't make it any better cutting the warranty period and free oil changes down in the 2016 models.

My car has been on and off the road since 07. Not even a month into ownership did I not have vac leaks at the blue T and tuner issues.

Car sales, both private party and dealership, are the one business where morals and ethics are thrown out the window. I sold cars in my former life, so I had a front row seat to the absolute worst that humanity has to offer. The level that people will stoop to for a sale, would make your blood boil. It's the same with private party sales. Sadly, there are still a lot of states that don't have adequate consumer protection laws in place. This allows the seller to list a vehicle "as is", tell the buyer it leaks a little oil, sell the car, and never have to lift a finger when the car is dead in a couple days. Getting an independent third party pre buy inspection at a trusted shop is a must now days. Even the smaller local dealers that have a full time "mechanic", will only do so much on a vehicle before they put it on the lot for sale. Usually new tires, oil change, and a quick cleaning. 1. Be diligent. 2. Do your research. 3. Do even more research. 4. Don't be in a hurry to buy. 5. Google can be your friend, use it to find common problems, BEFORE YOU BUY, so you can be at least somewhat educated before doing a car deal. 6. Don't be afraid to say "no thanks", and walk away.

I've bought a number of used cars privately and with only one exception all I had to throw money and repairs at before they passed the Ontario Safety Standards test. I just assume anything sold as-is is broken, be it cars, guitars, amplifiers, lawnmowers, etc.

If I know of a major issue then I also tell about it.

 

Minor issues like dash rattles and stuff that don't matter for the usability is no big deal.

 

If you tell about something then it's not going to come back and bite you later. You never know if the person you sell your car to is the son of your future manager.

lets see I don't hate my car i knew when I got the car it was not going to be long after the issue came since it was far from stock.. and on the stock tune..

 

I had countless people tell me I should sell my car.. my biggest joy is coming home and seeing it sitting in the parking space not because it's down but because I love it and I know how it was to drive when it was running and I can't wait to get back in it.

 

The biggest hurt was I put on all 4 new tires and I got less then 100 miles on them before the motor went..

I'm with JmP. I feel sorry for young folks with little money trying to scoop of a cheap/fast turbo subaru. It simply won't be reliable. Hell, I had a well running car and it's been down for 6 months now because of a cracked radiator and my overly indulgent "maintenance." Whoops [emoji38]

 

If I sell me car, I'll be the first to pay for the compression test before even listing it up for sale. Carfax? Eff that, you want the compression numbers!

I sold Hicksta's car to a 19 year old female. Granted, I had fixed a lot including turbo, suspensions, some boost leaks, loose bolts, electrical, etc. But I certainly felt a little uneasy knowing the risk with these cars. Fortunately, it seems to have worked out OK. I get MyCarfax emails every time she takes it in for service asking me to review the garage used. She's put over 10k miles without any major repairs...just tires and oil changes.

 

I'm with the ethical crowd. I won't sell a car that has a hidden flaw. I can fix most things so why be lazy and shady?

Some of the nicest, most well taken care of Legacy's I have seen, we're owned by women.

lets see I don't hate my car i knew when I got the car it was not going to be long after the issue came since it was far from stock.. and on the stock tune..

 

I had countless people tell me I should sell my car.. my biggest joy is coming home and seeing it sitting in the parking space not because it's down but because I love it and I know how it was to drive when it was running and I can't wait to get back in it.

 

The biggest hurt was I put on all 4 new tires and I got less then 100 miles on them before the motor went..

 

LOL I know that feel! I had 4 bald tires that winter and finally put all 4 on. You can still see the red green yellow lines int he treads years later. I had 1 person said they saw my car sitting w/o an engine and wanted to ask if I wanted to sell it. I totally know that I wanted a price he wasn't gonna pay so I didn't even let it happen. Totally could have had a nice for sale thread full of new parts and goodies.