Stewdogg's 2010 GT

My thoughts of good options:

 

Invidia catted dp ~$600

Dynotune ~$500

Total $1100

This one is easy and not very labor/time intensive for you. You get your tune all done and buttoned up in a single day and drive away.

 

Invidia catless DP ~$350

High Flow Cat ~$120

Exhaust shop to weld cat in at the downstream end of the DP (like the options out there for the 2015+ WRX) ~$50

BPV ~$170

EBCS ~$150

E-Tune ~$250

Total $1090

This is what I would do if I could have a do-over. It is much more labor/time intensive for you but you end up in a better place for a similar cost. The E-Tune involves you getting tunes via email, then testing and sending logs back to your tuner, who updates the tune and sends it back. You repeat the process until it's done. It can easily be a week between new tunes. Moving the cat farther from the turbo should help spool/response but it's hard to know how much and if it will be noticeable.

Edited June 29, 2018 by Sarang

That second option sounds like a cool idea. I wonder if it would actually only cost $50 to have someone weld the cat in? Any links to the high flow WRX cats? I did a quick search on ebay for it and didn't see any stand alone cats. I will google it next and see what I find.

I also want to look under the car and see where the cat could go and if there is a good place to put it and still set the o2 sensors hooked up.

 

I wish I was in a spot to make a decision on the exhaust with the 15% off on ebay till midnight, but I would rather be sure than save $50. I guess I will maybe buy a BPV and EBCS...

 

Thanks for the input Sarang, I really appreciate it!

I had a Vibrant Ultra Quiet Resonator welded in to my exhaust for $45 at a local shop that specializes in restoring old cars. I just left the car there for the day and Uber'd it to and from work so they were able to just fit it in whenever. I'm not sure about prices in your area of course, but you could make a few phone calls and find out.

 

Sorry, but I don't know much about cats. I did a search on Ebay and the 'high flow cats' seem to range from $80-$400. No idea what the differences are or if they matter.

 

I like your plan of taking it slow and thinking it through. There are definitely some things that I would have done differently if I hadn't gotten excited and jumped in. Like my Nameless DP which I almost want to remove and replace with the Invidia Catless + cat...

Before and after shots of the Koni/Eibach install. Not the greatest pics, but pics nonetheless.

So, a cat like this should be just fine...? This would be put in the catless down pipe in a different location than stock. Just checking to see if there's something I'm missing on why this shouldn't work fine for my needs.

 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/3-Catalytic-Converter-O2-High-Flow-for-Late-Models-/160993419534

 

Nice and cheap too.

I'd skip. It will need to be replaced within 2-3 years of that 5 year warranty.

They dont list the substrate, fabrication method or substrate cell count.

 

 

 

Do you know if you LGT is FED or CALI emissions?

 

Under the hood sticker or ECU CALID/CID give that away.

 

 

 

Restriction: Not legal in California

Restriction: Not legal in NY on OBDII equipped vehicles

Notes: For use on vehicles with Federal Emissions

 

 

 

You want one of these 400 cell metal core, OBDII and CALI/FED emissions legal bad boy:

 

 

https://vibrantperformance.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=1527_1326&products_id=2071&osCsid=0558ae75f4314e8712047a695f05ea0a

(can be had for much cheaper online, one and done on an LGT so worth the cost)

 

 

Worse-case this 300 cell metal core will do too (many catted DPs for LGTs, WRXs, etc) include these welded in.

 

https://vibrantperformance.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=1527_1470&products_id=857&osCsid=0558ae75f4314e8712047a695f05ea0a

Thanks Perscitus, that helps a ton!! I don't have a enough experience in these parts to know a turd from a gem.

 

I'm pretty sure that it is FED emissions, but I will double check today.

 

I would imagine for my power needs, the 300 cell should be just fine for me...? I only plan on a down pipe, BPV, boost controller and a tune. Plus, the cost of the 400 is close to a third of what I want to spend on the stage 2 upgrade in total, at this point anyway.

 

Thanks again!!

You're welcome. The GESI can be had for $300 if you shop around.

 

It will outlast the car and filter as well as the OE two cat setup with performance almost on par with catless.

 

 

The 300 cell is ok too but you will smell the exhaust and will likely produce a fair bit more smoke/water vapor during cold months. With a turbo up front the sound and performance will be similar, but due to high EGTs, this one will likely need replacing in 5-8 yrs time.

 

 

The turbo acts as a great muffler so either cell count and a single in-line cat will sound ok, not so on NAs where 400 cell is minimum and ideally 2 in-line are needed to elimibate throaty rasp, excess drone and volume, etc.

 

 

 

If your local emissions check is visual only, get either or, else I recommend the GESI. Do it once, do it right. Worth every $.

I live in Wi, the rust region and I'm not sure if I can fight off the rust much longer than 5-8 years anyway.

 

Would the longevity of the cat change if I put it further down the exhaust stream from the engine? Thinking that maybe the temps lower a bit down the line...?

 

Do you know of a little cheaper option over the GESI? Maybe something that would only last 5-10 years? Something closer to $150/200? My plan is to have the car 5-8 years because it's my daily.

If I lived somewhere that there was no salt or this was my summer show car, I would spend the money on the best one.

 

Thanks again Perscitus!

Magnaflow metal core cats will fit the bill.

 

 

Its not just rust (SS) but the structural integrity of the core on a turbo car.

 

You dont want it clogging, melting, collapsing or blowing out.

 

 

 

You also dont want the cat far back, it needs to heat up plenty and fast to do its work.

 

 

Keep the AF sensor in its stock location, or as close to it and its stock orientation as possible. This is critical. Even more than cat/catless and cat location.

 

 

 

Then weld the cat in anywhere downstream from that, but no further than say the end of the front diff or mid- transmission pan. In theory, the closer to turbo exhaust flange, the better. No matter what, dont go beyond mid-car.

 

 

Have your t00ner disable the rear O2 fuel learn/correcr contributions and cat efficiency DTCs and done.

I meant the car rusting underneath or body rust, but I will try my best to fight it off.

 

Cool, I'll check out the Magnaflow stuff. So, the big difference between Vibrant and Magnaflow is mainly build quality and longevity?

 

Perscitus (or anyone who wants to chime in), in your opinion, is the best location for the cat in the stock location? Do you see a benefit to the turbo spooling a tad better/quicker with a different cat location? Sarang and I were talking and he thought there might be a chance that it has a benefit to move the location of the cat, he also said there might not be a difference.

 

Thanks again, this is all very useful info that is difficult to search for.

Yeah, you cant go wrong with either Vibrant or Magnaflow.

Find the part no. that you like and google shop around for best price.

Just try to stick with metal core and at least 300-400 cell.

 

 

 

For a turbo'ed engine stick with metal core over ceramic to avoid issues.

 

Anything less than 300 cell is effectively same at catless in terms of smell, rasp and lack of emissions catalysis, so avoid that too.

 

 

On a turbo'ed Subaru you want the first cat close to the turbo for optimal cat performance but also overall exhaust performance.

 

 

On an NA it can be further back to create an effect like long headers.

 

 

On both, you dont want the cat too far back downstream of the AF sensor so it never warms up enough or does so quickly.

 

 

 

I'd vote general stock location or even closer upstream (look at some aftermarket down/jpipes from the usual suspects to get a sense of best location)

I just got back from a concert at a place called The Shitty Barn and saw Scott H. Biram, great show!

 

The venue is about an hour away. I had two options on ways to get there, one was a twisty road and the other the highway... I choose the twisties. Again, the Koni/Eibach setup impressed me. The car felt very planted in the turns and didn't seem to mind me pushing it. The tires are holding me back a bit, but the car felt great!

 

There is a stretch of road that is two lanes and I dropped to third to pass someone and noticed my fine knock and DAM pop at WOT. I imagine this is due to the stock Cobb 91 tune and I need a custom tune, which I plan to get as soon as I get my DP and other goodies.

Is there a thread or resource somewhere that I can see the values I need to see or not see for the Knock and DAM for the 5th gen? Are the values the same for all turbo vehicles?

 

The heat shield under the headders is rusted and rattling a bit, could that be the cause of the knock or not, due to the DAM numbers and the fact that it happens at WOT?

 

My fine knock was 1.40 and the DAM always sits at 1.000, but when the fine knock went off, the DAM dropped a bit to .9xx

 

I will get some logs of it this weekend.

Likely completely benign. These cars (all engine flavors) have an overly sensitive strategy and will pull timing if you look at them wrong. At the same time, the ECU will constantly test the waters by attempting to add timing back throughout the RPM/Load surface. Depending on how total timing is set and what the t00n allows on the KCA side of things, that can be just as bad as many instances of pulled timing or abrupt cell to cell timing differences...

 

 

https://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/everything-you-wanted-know-subarus-knock-prevention-strategy-254139.html

Thanks!

 

So, when should I be concerned with the timing numbers?

If I can repeat those low numbers on a WOT pull is it an issue or still benign?

 

I really appreciate the conversation/info on this stuff!

Really only a concern under WOT (100%) or sustained high throttle plate angle (say north of 60-70%%).

 

 

With steady throttle, RPM and Load, watch for decreasing FLKC

(meaning becoming more negative).

 

 

 

Under WOT, and as RPM and Load climbs,

 

watch for relatively high FKC (say <-2).

 

 

In either case, the only time to mind FKC/FLKC is say above 1.5KRPM, above 1.1g/rev, under some moderate boost, say >4psi.

 

 

Try to pull an LV from your LGT (using either RRs logger, BtSsm or LVViewer, FreeSsm maybe too) and see how your Learned Timing table looks like.

 

If you notice a decent bunch of pulled timing (especially up top in the load/RPM cells) with IAM/DAM below, well below 1, that would indicate learned knock correction under WOT at higher RPMs.

Anything in the low load, RPM cells can typically be ignored.

 

IAM/DAM being lower than 1 can be ignored as well, especially if your KCA table has low additives and total timing is fairly aggressive.

 

 

 

Looking at knock and logs really needs to be in the perspective of the tune with visibility into how its configured. Otherwise things lack context.

 

 

 

Rock solid IAM/DAM and minimal FKC blips in logs might mean nothing or just as little as constant IAM/DAM instability and lots of FKC/FLKC noise... all depends on the tune, fuel, operating conditions. Ironically the second scenario might make more or just as much hp/tq and be 'safer' for the engine.

Looks like all the log viewers are for Windows/PC, anything out there for a Mac user?

 

Thanks again, this is all making me feel better to understand it a bit more.

So, I'm trying to get all my things together for my stage 2 upgrade. I have been looking and reading a bunch about things and have a question.

 

How likely is it that I will suffer boost creep. I live in Wisconsin and well over half of the year it is colder than 60 degrees. Is it something that is guaranteed to happen due to design or is it a luck of the draw kind of thing?

Having a catted downpipe will help, but it's definitely still a possibility. Porting the wastegate seems to go a long way toward preventing it, too. That said, my downpipe has been in the box in the garage since I bought it however many years ago that was, so I'm not exactly the voice of experience. I do know first-hand that my butt dyno reads significantly higher at around 20 degrees ambient, and since a) overboost seems to be more likely in cold weather, and b) that's basically any given Tuesday between November and March, there's no shortage of opportunities for problems.

While I'm planning and working towards my stage 2 upgrade I will get side tracked along the way.

I picked up a set of wheel spacers from the stand up forum member Sarang. They are great and will hold me over till I can afford some new wheels next summer.

 

The pic with the jack is the stock set up and the driver's side is with the spacers installed.

Lookin' good!

 

Isn't it surprising how much more sporty it looks from a distance with the spacers?

Thanks man!

 

Just a 2 inch wider stance looks much meaner, for sure! I am very happy with the way it sits now, even though it probably should've looked close to that from the factory, for a sports sedan.

I finally got my AVO and Whiteline bushings installed in my LCA's and it was a bitch in those old arms. I had a seized rear bushing bolt on the driver's side that took a considerable amount of time/effort to remove, but I got it out and didn't have to break anything to do so. I even had time to give the arms a good prep and bunch of coats of paint, to get it ready for some more years of service. Pressing the actual bushing was the easy part.

 

I need to take it out on the highway and see if it got rid of my front end vibration. I think I will still need to replace the passenger side axle, but wanted to wait and see how much the new bushings helped. After that I have to get my turbo cooler lines replaced. I already have the parts for that, so I just need to find the time. The last major thing for the summer will be the stage 1 tune. I was thinking about going straight stage 2, but with the new (to me) info of having the boost creep issue in this car/turbo, I figured I would take it easy on myself and save stage 2 for next year. I have had enough time working on this car just to fix the old age items I inherited from the previous owner(s).

 

Quick question, should I install the BPV and EBCS for the stage 1 tune or just tune it stock as it sits?

Definitely install the BPV, EBCS you can leave up to the tuner's preference. Once you install that BPV and can actually hold boost, though, you may find that you're happy enough with the OTS map to skip the pro-tune until next summer's stage 2 adventures.

I ordered the BPV and EBCS today. Will I need to get an etune if I use the boost controller? At least to be useful or will the Cobb app take advantage of it?