Staggered wheels

Hello all. I got my first Subaru last October and quickly became a fan wondering why I never considered one before. From the test drive I knew my '10 GT was going to be special to me. I found this fourm and have been skimming through the various topics for all the tips and tricks I can handle.

Now that spring is upon us (even tho it snowed yesterday in Toronto smh) and I want a set of shoes for my GT. I found a set of 19s fresh out the box for an amazing price, the guy at the shop is having trouble moving them due to the 5x100 bolt pattern. The only issue is they are staggered 19x8.5 front and 19x9.5 rear.

I've been digging through this amazing network for weeks looking for the best set up but everyone has a different opinion as to what is best as preference dictates all.

My question is, has anyone run a similar set up and what is the truth regarding staggered on an AWD system?

If I run 225/40/19 and 255/35/19 I will have a pretty much identical wheel size to factory and I would just add a swift spring kit to lower enough to close the gap without rubbing.

Does this make sense?

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Our cars have a viscous limited-slip center differential, which is pretty forgiving of different shaft velocities for sort durations, but pretty unhappy about it over longer durations (read: the guts will melt). Staggered setups are going to have different diameters front and rear, which is a surefire way to need to drop the transmission and replace your center diff. Stick with the same wheels and tires all-around and you'll be better off. You'll be able to rotate tires front to rear, too, which is good- RWD cars can rely on burnouts to wear the rear tires down to match the fronts, but we're cursed with too much grip

Also, I hear you on the weather- we haven't had crap for snow all winter, and possibly the biggest snowfall we've gotten was the 4-5" we got on Monday night.

According to willtheyfit it's a difference of 2.9mm on the front and 2.6mm at the back in diameter.

So 0.3mm between the 2.

I would think that normal time wear could cause this type of difference hence the need for tire rotation.

Am I right?

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What is "pretty much identical"? Subaru talks about not being more than 1/4" different in circumference. We generally don't mix the same tires that are several 32nds different.

My math tell me the front and rear will have a difference of 0.185 inches which is less than 1/4 inch. So I should be fine

As for rotation, i don't have directional tires so I can still swap rear with rear and front with front. Should get me 3-4 summers as we only get 4 months a year up here anyway lol

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Also remember that not all tires of the same spec are the same size. There can be a good bit of variation between what the "normal" spec on a website says and what you actually get. I've seen a 1/2" difference in width between two "identical" spec tires from different manufacturers. Similar to where a size 13 shoe can vary a good bit in size.

Honestly, I personally wouldn't do it. The Subaru AWD is amazing, but it's designed for all four corners to be the same. With a staggered setup, it might be fine for a while, but it's absolutely a risk to the full system. If you decide to do it, just put aside enough to replace diffs and possibly tranny.

Also remember that not all tires of the same spec are the same size. There can be a good bit of variation between what the "normal" spec on a website says and what you actually get. I've seen a 1/2" difference in width between two "identical" spec tires from different manufacturers. Similar to where a size 13 shoe can vary a good bit in size.

 

Honestly, I personally wouldn't do it. The Subaru AWD is amazing, but it's designed for all four corners to be the same. With a staggered setup, it might be fine for a while, but it's absolutely a risk to the full system. If you decide to do it, just put aside enough to replace diffs and possibly tranny.

In regards to spec variations, I assume that a tire brand would have some from of consistency in their measurements. As long as I don't mix brands I think I can trust the numbers.

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I hear you. I'm still weighing the options so I definitely appreciate the input.

In regards to spec variations, I assume that a tire brand would have some from of consistency in their measurements. As long as I don't mix brands I think I can trust the numbers.

 

 

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The two sizes you have in your post in a Michelin pilot 4s are 797 and 799 rev per mile. Close enough to be called a match. But I still wouldn't do it.

You need to match circumference not diameter. The tire diameter should be within 2/32. The easiest way would be to use the manufacturers spec for revolutions per mile and match them front to rear.

 

The two sizes you have in your post in a Michelin pilot 4s are 797 and 799 rev per mile. Close enough to be called a match. But I still wouldn't do it.

So far I've heard everyone in here say they wouldn't do it and I understand wanting to avoid the risk

I'm just waiting for someone who has indeed tried it and want to hear the results. I think actual experience is better than possibles.

In the mean time I'll continue to look for alternates.

Thanks again guys

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Thanks for checking that.

 

So far I've heard everyone in here say they wouldn't do it and I understand wanting to avoid the risk

I'm just waiting for someone who has indeed tried it and want to hear the results. I think actual experience is better than possibles.

 

In the mean time I'll continue to look for alternates.

 

Thanks again guys

 

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But seriously look at just about every Subaru with awd from drag cars to stance cars none have staggered wheel setups.

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Thanks for checking that.

 

So far I've heard everyone in here say they wouldn't do it and I understand wanting to avoid the risk

I'm just waiting for someone who has indeed tried it and want to hear the results. I think actual experience is better than possibles.

 

In the mean time I'll continue to look for alternates.

 

Thanks again guys

 

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So I think you're not really understanding the gist here. Don't do it, you'll break expensive parts of your car.

It's 'risky' like not changing your oil is risky: Maybe there's more wiggle room that SOA says that there is, but as a rule of thumb you should just follow the manufacturers recommendations... because engines are expensive.

I have an AWD that has staggered wheel and tire options from the factory (BMW X5).

The diameter difference front to rear is 0.05".

No problems with the AWD in about 50k miles.

Not an endorsement for doing it on a Subaru, just that such setups are out there on some vehicles.

Looks like the BMW has an electronically-controlled clutch-type LSD in the transfer case, and from what I've read (which isn't much, admittedly), it has a RWD bias and can send up to half of the torque to the front wheels. That sounds about like CVT Subarus, only backward, since those are about 90/10 normally. My guess is that those clutches aren't working too hard (aka not generating a lot of heat) on dry pavement, and since it's computer-controlled, there are probably speed restrictions limiting the torque split (similar to X-Mode on the new Outbacks).

Our particular flavor of Subaru manual transmission has a full-time 50/50 split- no electronics, no clutches to disengage, just some good old-fashioned gears. The goal of the viscous element is to limit the difference in output shaft speed front to rear in order to stay as close as possible to that 50/50 split. In our case, it actually biases power to the rear, since it links the diff housing to the rear output shaft, but since the speed difference between the diff housing and one output shaft is half of the difference between the two output shafts, having it there accomplishes the same goal with less stress on the coupling. If that coupling wasn't there, you could run staggered sizes no problem, but since it's there, not such a good idea.

True, the Xdrive is rear biased and computer controlled.

Interesting to note is the first gen phase 1 versions of the X5 had simpler non-computer controlled awd, but were still rear biased, and also offered with staggered wheel/tire combos.

Yea, I think I've heard enough to not risk it.

You guys are a wealth of knowledge to a newbie and I really appreciate it.

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Yea, I think I've heard enough to not risk it.

You guys are a wealth of knowledge to a newbie and I really appreciate it.

 

 

 

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Speaking of random AWD cars, I have an R32 GT-R. The AWD in the R32 to R34 do not like staggered sizes. The ATTESA is RWD and sends torque to the front axle when it detects slip via clutch packs. I got slightly larger rear tyres installed after a puncture and my system went berserk (at least I knew the 25 year old thing worked). I got matching front tyre sizes the next day.

But the R35 GT-R has 9.5" front wheels and 10.5" rears. So it depends on the setup from factory.

Bonus for identical all round is you can rotate the wheels front to back .

Update....

So after all the great advice, I changed my wheels.

Running 19x9.5 +40 w/ 255/35/19 tires

Haven't mounted them as yet and we're anticipating more hail on the weekend

So now I'm sitting on the original set trying to sell them for cheap

If anyone is looking for a staggered set up for a non AWD person, let me know

19" Niche Targa m131 Machined finish

19x8.5 +40 & 19x9.5 +40

Asking $850 obo

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Update....

 

So after all the great advice, I changed my wheels.

 

Running 19x9.5 +40 w/ 255/35/19 tires

Haven't mounted them as yet and we're anticipating more hail on the weekend

 

 

So now I'm sitting on the original set trying to sell them for cheap

 

If anyone is looking for a staggered set up for a non AWD person, let me know

 

19" Niche Targa m131 Machined finish

19x8.5 +40 & 19x9.5 +40

 

Asking $850 obo

 

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you could post that up in one of the BRZ/FRS forums. those guys run staggered setups alot

you could post that up in one of the BRZ/FRS forums. those guys run staggered setups alot

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Yea, I think I've heard enough to not risk it.

You guys are a wealth of knowledge to a newbie and I really appreciate it.

Holy crap, it's a new guy that's willing to listen. You're a breath of fresh air. Usually after a response like your earlier post (hearing lots of reasons why not, looking for someone who's done it), all the evidence in the world can't change a mind.

Props.

Holy crap, it's a new guy that's willing to listen. You're a breath of fresh air. Usually after a response like your earlier post (hearing lots of reasons why not, looking for someone who's done it), all the evidence in the world can't change a mind.

 

Props.

I'm am admitted novice.

I take information from various sources, analyze, and make a calculated decision

But hey, this is why these fourms exist. So glad I found this one

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Holy crap, it's a new guy that's willing to listen. You're a breath of fresh air. Usually after a response like your earlier post (hearing lots of reasons why not, looking for someone who's done it), all the evidence in the world can't change a mind.

 

Props.

most 4th gen noobs are 18-22 and are now able to afford these cars, and are by default retarded.

I did dumb car shit when I was that age too, and nobody could tell me different.