Tehnation's Ballin on a budget rebuild!

Yikes, that's quite dicked. I think I conjured advice from Boxkita in my mind - thought I had seen him make the suggestion but now I don't see it either. In any case, seems like you're taking the head to a machine shop to see if they can build up weld and re-cut to size. Alignment's going to be tricky. Seconded infosecdad's question - how's the journal on the head-side look?

head surface is fine, its just the underside of cap from trying to pry off the cap from the bolt, the camshaft was protecting the head side, by the time i realized I should just cut the bolt from underneath the cap my frustration had already destroyed the underside...

 

I'm just going to sand it down to deburr it and make a smooth surface, and then sand the ends of the cap to adjust the height to get the right tolerance.

Ah, yeah, I was expecting just possible damage on the outside/topside of the cap which wouldn't impact any matting surfaces. Is the camshaft still good as well?

The oil comes through the head side which is in perfect shape so the cap shouldn't really be an issue if the tolerance is right even with some dimples/low points in the cap. I'm about sick and tired of this motor..... I don't have many options for shops near me and ones that do that absurd type of work are gonna charge me 100's. People don't race cars or build things for speed around me, no race tracks, long winters, high population density so not many places to go fast without getting arrested or a ticket...

 

NYC area is like the worst area for high end machine work, people around here drive imports and economy cars mainly and no one is doing this kind of work, the demand is low so supply is even lower, I gotta drive 45 minutes to get to either 1 of 2 shops, one has all that high end equipment and does all that crazy shit but charges an arm and leg cause they can because they have little to no competition, the other shop does more basic things and charges a reasonable price but doesn't get into the madness.

 

If I gotta pay 100 or 200 dollars I would rather just grab a used head for 300 or 400 and just rebuild it myself because it seems I have less issues when I do things myself, plus learning how to diy. like 1 or 2 hundred to fix a single part versus just buying another head for 350 is a no brainer in my book.

Edited May 18, 2022 by Tehnation

Ah, yeah, I was expecting just possible damage on the outside/topside of the cap which wouldn't impact any matting surfaces. Is the camshaft still good as well?

 

Nope the camshaft pin that sets the cam gear completely sheared so its garbage, BrianCrower is sending me a new cam, free! I was like do you want the old one and they are like no, just throw that shit away lol

imperial units are the devil anyhow, in-lbs, ft-lbs, fathom-ozf, anything but base 10!

 

 

^+1000!

Gonna call the machine shop tomorrow to get some pricing.... this cap is really fucked up lol.

 

Wow, B25 heads are as low as 400-500 bucks shipped for a set of lh and rh.... hmmmm

 

BC shipped my new cam today from California, should be here tuesday.

Edited May 19, 2022 by Tehnation

found this on nasioc forum:

 

EJ25 from subaru workshop manual

 

Camshaft journal O.D. mm (in) 31.928 - 31.945 (1.2570 - 1.2577)

Camshaft journal hole I.D. (Cylinder head) mm (in) 32.000 - 32.018 (1.2598 - 1.2605)

Oil clearance mm (in)STD 0.055 - 0.090 (0.0022 - 0.0035)

Limit 0.10 (0.0039)

 

Going to smooth out the cap first and then plastigauge to see what clearance is and take it from there.

Edited May 19, 2022 by Tehnation

hmmm double checked fsm for good measure, not the same.

 

 

Edited May 19, 2022 by Tehnation

I got a variety of sand paper grits, if I can fix this problem for 10 bucks, then yea!

 

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01K22Q9R8/

 

I have the old cam and using it to test how smooth the cap journal gets. I used the intake cam and cap to get a feel of how the cap should feel against the camshaft. I'm basically trying to make sure the cap isn't grinding the camshaft. Once I get it smooth enough, going to plastigauge and see whats up.

So cam cap was salvaged, still within spec and smoothed out.

 

Also tested the valves to see if they were still sealing, sprayed some brake cleaner in the intake and exhaust to see if any came out on the other side, its sealing fine.

 

Cleaned off my pistons, its running rich for break in and base e tune, lots of buildup. So why not!

 

I also ordered a new head gasket, cam cap bolt, cam seals, oil return gasket and oil return cover(cause why not, they were like 5 bucks for both) . Figured I got through this fairly unscathed so might as well shell out the 100-150 for good measure.

 

 

What do you use to clean head and case mating surfaces again? There was some subaru recommended thing, or can we use something else? God damn google...

Edited May 24, 2022 by Tehnation

Actually I lied some of the valves are leaking a little...... hmmm

 

What compound do I need to lap these valves?

 

Actually... how do I pull apart this valve train, mainly the springs.... hmmm. Not familiar with these heads, the springs and seals are all recessed, so I am assuming I need some specialized tool for these heads. Anyone!? lol

Edited May 24, 2022 by Tehnation

Company 23 makes a valve compressor tool for our heads, and the Chinese have made knockoffs available on Amazon. Pick yer poison

Subaru recommends a green Roloc disk for mating surfaces (I posted the TSB on here somewhere) , but that's too aggressive from the one time I've tried. White roloc is better (softer), but you still need to be very careful and run the grinder at low pressure/speed and be very consistent in how you move it across the head. I've come to prefer a plastic razor blade, brake cleaner and a good rag. That should be plenty given how recently you put the motor together.

Subaru recommends a green Roloc disk for mating surfaces (I posted the TSB on here somewhere) , but that's too aggressive from the one time I've tried. White roloc is better (softer), but you still need to be very careful and run the grinder at low pressure/speed and be very consistent in how you move it across the head. I've come to prefer a plastic razor blade, brake cleaner and a good rag. That should be plenty given how recently you put the motor together.

 

Do you know what they recommend for lapping the valves? Or anyone know what to use or can you use any compound? Can we even lap these valves? Gonna check the fsm.

Edited May 24, 2022 by Tehnation

Company 23 makes a valve compressor tool for our heads, and the Chinese have made knockoffs available on Amazon. Pick yer poison

 

 

Ordered

 

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07J38YP26

 

The company 23 one is like triple the price

 

https://www.amazon.com/Company23-Valve-Spring-Compressor-Subaru/dp/B00OQOLWEO/ref=psdc_15707611_t1_B07J38YP26

fsm just states grinding compound.... no specifics. probably going to need new valve seals if i lap the valves...ordered

 

https://www.flatironstuning.com/gsc-valve-intake-and-exhaust-seal-set-ej20-ej25

 

Cause oem seals are like 6 bucks each.

 

And this compound, u can add drops of water to adjust the grit.

 

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000HBM80M

 

Seems to leak slightly from the inside or from intake and exhaust ports, but doesn't leak from the outside or the cylinder chamber side... gotta look into this more.

Edited May 24, 2022 by Tehnation

You can see the shiny spot where the valve hit something, not too bad.

 

Being that its on the inside and bottom of the dome, seems like exhaust and intake valves hit each other on both cylinders!? Either way thats better than beating my rod bearings so the sb should be unscathed.

 

 

 

 

I wonder if the orientation of that spark plug does anything?

Edited May 24, 2022 by Tehnation

Hmm , wonder if these valves are still good, seems like everything got a black eye lol. An oem intake valve is 80 dollars??? lol yea right, thats not gonna happen!

 

 

 

 

 

Opinions!?? Don't be shy now!

Edited May 24, 2022 by Tehnation

Hmm , wonder if these valves are still good, seems like everything got a black eye lol. An oem intake valve is 80 dollars??? lol yea right, thats not gonna happen!

 

[ATTACH]296236[/ATTACH]

 

[ATTACH]296237[/ATTACH]

 

[ATTACH]296238[/ATTACH]

 

[ATTACH]296239[/ATTACH]

 

Opinions!?? Don't be shy now!

I've found the best way to check for valve issues is by pouring your favorite fluid into the chamber (heads upside down) and then blow compressed air into the intake chamber with other blocked off. Then repeat on the exhaust chamber. Any bubbles means valve isn't sealing right. You can try to lap and then retest. If it still fails, get a valve job.

I've found the best way to check for valve issues is by pouring your favorite fluid into the chamber (heads upside down) and then blow compressed air into the intake chamber with other blocked off. Then repeat on the exhaust chamber. Any bubbles means valve isn't sealing right. You can try to lap and then retest. If it still fails, get a valve job.

 

I was just about to do that when my air hose decided to burst..... and now I can't reach my desk so I gotta move everything closer.... but no room , so gotta order a new extension hose.

 

 

Edited May 24, 2022 by Tehnation

That permatex valve grinding compound is good. We use it at work (but not for valves, lol).

 

If you really need a new hose for your compressor, just go down to Walmart, they normally have a selection of hoses to pick from!

That permatex valve grinding compound is good. We use it at work (but not for valves, lol).

 

If you really need a new hose for your compressor, just go down to Walmart, they normally have a selection of hoses to pick from!

 

What do you use for valves?

 

I'm to lazy and hate dealing with traffic, Amazon has spoiled me..... I usually get things next day or 2 days later. Gas is $5+ a gallon for 87 octane..... At that point its just easier and cheaper to just wait a day, no rush for me, I have plenty of other things to do lol!

Edited May 25, 2022 by Tehnation

I remember facing this dilemma with valves: if you follow the exact part number for our MY, the valves (intake or exhaust) are expensive (most likely because sodium filled). I believe in later years, they stopped doing that.

 

 

See here vs. here.

 

 

I believe when you see the stamping ID1 (for intake I think) or ED3 (for exhaust), these are sodium filled.

I've found the best way to check for valve issues is by pouring your favorite fluid into the chamber (heads upside down) and then blow compressed air into the intake chamber with other blocked off. Then repeat on the exhaust chamber. Any bubbles means valve isn't sealing right. You can try to lap and then retest. If it still fails, get a valve job.

 

So I get bubbles sometimes on certain valves, 4/8, 2 intake and 2 exhaust, when I blow air into the head, my tank regulator is at 125psi so its pretty strong air. The thing I can't remember is if that is to high? I also have to shove the thing air gun all the way into the hole, i remember that you are supposed to do it away from the intake and exhaust about an inch or 2 because at that point your basically cracking the spring with the pressure. But my springs are stiffer, but can't be that much more than oem, actually I have no idea.. Either way 4 of the 8 lets some bubbles through so I am going to lap those 4 and see what happens. 1 of them is really bad, the other 3 could probably get by.

 

 

I did basically what this video does.

Edited May 26, 2022 by Tehnation