At Oil Temp and Brake lights flashing and VDC light solid

Update 9/16/16 Spoiler alert!! Skip the next paragraph if you don't want to ruin the ending.

 

I wasn't able to fix my car. I sold it and bought something else. Moral of the story - if you have issues and a shop offers to replace the tranny with low mileage used for "about $2300," DO IT!

 

**** Warning super long post ****

 

TL : DR = Please tell me my car isn't completely ruined!

 

 

I have a recurring issue with my 2010 Legacy with a CVT. I have searched both this forum and Google and not been able to find anything that matches my issues. If this issue has been discussed before and I'm just a shitty searcher please direct me to the pages I need. I'll try to be as descriptive as I can be without rambling.

 

 

I have a ~$15 blue tooth OBD2 code scanner that I used with the “Torque Lite” and “Piston” apps and it didn't pull any codes.

 

 

I have dates, times and mileage for some occurrences thanks to video I recorded of the warning lights flashing.

 

 

The issues:

 

Shift interlock? (just noticed yesterday)

Constant clicking sound coming from shifter in park with engine running, can be shifted out of park WITHOUT pressing the brake pedal.

 

 

Occasional hesitation/jerky acceleration pulling away from a stop (at least once followed by the warning lights the next day)

 

 

Warning lights (has happened at least 3 documented times)

 

[Driving around town] “AT Oil Temp” and “Brake” lights flashing with the VDC symbol on solid.

 

[turn car off and back on] flashing brake light and a solid VDC light

 

[turn car off and back on] no warning lights

 

 

 

Yesterday 06/12/2016, 8:15ish pm 171,083 miles.

 

My wife and I were out driving around running some errands. I thought I noticed a slight hesitation/jerkiness while pulling away from a stop but my wife didn't notice anything. We decided to get a cold drink at the Sonic. It was around 100 F out so we had the car running with the AC on full blast while we waited what seemed like 4 hours for our order (real time 10-15 minutes). While we were waiting I noticed a constant clicking coming from the shifter so I turned off the radio. The clicking was quite annoying so I was playing around trying to figure out what it was and get it to stop. It sounded an awful lot like the shift interlock engaging and disengaging. The noise stopped when I pressed the brake pedal and started again when I let off. I set the parking brake and was able to shift out of park WITHOUT my foot on the brake pedal. We got our drinks and headed home. About halfway into the approximately 2 mile drive the warning lights came on.

 

 

06/06/2016, 5:25ish pm 170,285 miles

 

I was out of town trip for work approximately 325 miles from home. I drove down on 06/05 with no issues, found the hotel, dropped off my bags them went exploring around town. I noticed a subtle hesitation/jerky acceleration from a stop. My wife didn't notice this until I pointed it out. It occurred a handful of times. Morning 06/06 I drove approximately 6.5miles from my hotel to work with no warning lights or issues. Afternoon 06/06 I left work and went straight back to the hotel. The warning lights came on withing about a half mile of the hotel. We ventured out for dinner that night, then explored some more in the morning before we returned home 06/07 with no issues.

 

 

04/01/2016, 10:20ish pm 167,120 miles

 

I had forgotten about this occurrence that I had written off as a fluke. I actually found the video I took of the lights flashing while looking for something else in my phones gallery. No hesitation or jerky acceleration that I can remember. We were out driving around town maybe 45 minutes and the Warning lights came on. I drove to the nearest parking lot and shut it off and began Googling but I couldn't find anything useful. I started it back up the “VDC” light was on and the “Brake” light was flashing but the AT Oil Temp was off so I drove home. No warning lights after turning it off and on again at home.

 

 

02/15/2016 around 160,000 I got an unfix-able flat.

 

After about a week of driving on the tiny spare I replaced 2 tires with the same size make and model. The new tires had 11/32 and the old had 8/32. I checked with the local Subaru dealer before putting them on and the man I spoke with said the difference of 3/32 was acceptable. I also bought a rim and mounted the still good old tire so I could have a full sized spare.

 

 

Some unrecorded date several months before the two new tires.

 

My wife and made a “short trip” to meet her father half way for lunch about 100 miles out of town. After lunch we returned to our home town (100 miles) and drove around the metro area looking at houses and apartments for a possible next residence. Between houses a noticed a subtle hesitation/jerkiness that steadily increased to an un-ignorable and quite concerning harsh jerkiness while accelerating from a stop at about 10-15 or maybe 15-20 mph. The best way I can describe the feeling would be a standard auto shifting hard because its low on transmission fluid. I don't recall any warning lights after but that doesn't mean they didn't.

 

 

I'm sorry for such a long post. I'm hoping someone here will know something. Every time I called any dealer with an issue for any car I've been told “We will have to look at it, why don't you bring it in.”

Sounds like a BIU or ECU/TCU/BIU communications error.

Shifter solenoid clicking like that fairly constantly and erratic AT/CVT behavior are tell tale signs.

 

Might be something as 'simple' as one or a couple of burned out fuses, or as complicated as issues with pin outs or harnesses on one or more of the car 'computer' units (ECU/TCU/BIU).

 

The 'Christmas' lights you're getting are a standard Subaru reaction to either a DTC setting or these type of CAN bus gremlins.

 

Since you used a decent EOBDII dongle and software and didn't find any pending or set DTC codes that would point you in the right direction, then check the fuses both in the engine bay and in the driver's foot well area.

 

Monitor and log your battery voltage as well (ignition on before cold start, warm idle, min/max and average during a regular drive).

 

Take her in to a dealership and have them scan her with a SSM III or SSM IV suite, check for any faults across the different sub-systems and look for anything beyond vanilla OBDII coverage. They might find say a bad steering angle sensor, brake circuit brake short, BIU pinout issue, etc.

Are there specific fuses I should check? I know Subaru dash lights can be a bit odd if not vague and unhelpful. I topped of a half tank with E85 once and every warning light came on.

Yes, check the brake circuit fuses, shifter solenoid, BIU fuses. Owner's manual will show you which to look for and where.

 

E85 in a 2.5i with no tune (I assume).... I wouldn't recommend doing that.

Better off topping off with Ethanol-free AKI91 or AKI93. None of this will help you with the issue above though.

 

Once you sort out the fuse/CAN bus message gremlins or have the dealership replace whatever sensor (if any) broke, have them:

 

1. Update your ECU to latest CALID

2. Update your TCU to latest CALID (info on this in the How many Miles.... CVT thread)

3. Perform a full CVT re-learn using the SSM III or IV suite

 

I doubt you have a mechanical problem at this point, but if you continue to drive with the flashing lights and the transmission behaving like that, they may very well develop.

You need to get these electrical problems sorted and she should be well again.

Any rodents in the wire harness?

 

Also check battery voltage and alternator. If the voltage goes low due to a shorted battery cell then anything can happen.

It ran just fine with the E85 but the lights freaked out. I haven't tried it again.

 

The lights are not currently on. I may not have been clear enough in the description of the occurrences. The lights came on while driving, when I turned the car off and back on only the brake light was flashing and the VDC on solid (no AT OIL TEMP light) and the next time I turned it off and on all the lights stayed off.

 

Does the owners manual have a diagram of which fuses are where? I know the covers do and I'll look during my lunch break. It's about 100°F here and I don't want to spend any time outside that I don't have to.

Yup I believe it does. There are online version of the user manual too that will show you the same. Google them and you can search for the pages you need, print them out and then check the fuses when its more comfortable.

 

That behavior you're describing is well known, I understood it the first time around.

Its typical with electrical gremlins and CAN bus communication errors (without any DTCs setting).

During my lunch break I ran a quick errand and kept an eye on the voltage with the Piston app. 14.0-14.3 with the engine running. I pulled up at a gas station to return a redbox and grab a drink. When I shut the car off and it read 13.2 then dropped to 13.1, then 13.0. When I got back in the car it read 12.0! The voltage dropped to 11.0 when I started the engine. Then it was back to 14.0-14.3 when running. I parked and checked all the fuses that I thought might be related (and broke a sweat doing it) and they were all good. And the voltage was steady at 12.9.

 

I will check more fuses when I have more time. I didn't recognize several of the abbreviations.

Voltage sounds good.

 

When the car is running driving/idling and the battery is charging, it should hover between say 13.8 and 14.3V on a stock setup.

 

After shut-off there is some residual charge present and the resting state voltage will read 'high' (aka the 13.x you saw). You can remove this residual charge to see real battery voltage by pressing the brake a few times and/or even better - putting the headlights on for 30-60 seconds with the engine off. At this point the resting state voltage should be ~ accurate.

 

This is what you saw when you got back and read 12V resting voltage. Good.

 

A dip in the monitored/logged voltage when you crank is also normal, might dip as low as 9/10V and that too is normal.

 

I think you will need to see a Dealership after all - as far as I know you've exhausted all the basic checks and with their SSM III or IV suite you will be able to either a. track down any broken sensors or issues with the ECU/TCU or BIU pin outs or units themselves.

 

It would actually be best if you waited until the light come on (in any combination) and drove her over in that state, let them hook it up and perform their scans without shutting her off. Else, they should be able to figure it out either way.

12.6V is normal resting voltage but 12V isn't scary. Charging up to 15V isn't unheard of. I'm just crossing my fingers hoping its something easy like a fuse or the battery.

 

For argument sake let's say i take it to the dealer and its a worst case scenario, what am I looking at? A few hundred or a few grand?

 

I'm hoping its a cheap fix. If its high enough I might beable to convince myself to just buy something else. It needs some suspension work and I don't even want to think about that a shop would want for the work. I can do allmost any work myself but my tools and equipment are just over 200 miles away.

I spoke with the dealer and I'm taking it in after work. They offered to scan for codes for free and gave me a heads up on the $99 diagnostic fee.

They wont find codes, what they should do is what I outlined above.

 

Scan sub-systems using SSM III or IV (whichever they have), check BIU for issues,

and check for any sensor faults (steering angle position sensor, etc).

 

Then give you the latest ECU and TCU reflashes and perform the full CVT re-learn.

**** Warning super long post ****

 

TL : DR = Please tell me my car isn't completely ruined!

 

 

I have a recurring issue with my 2010 Legacy with a CVT. I have searched both this forum and Google and not been able to find anything that matches my issues. If this issue has been discussed before and I'm just a shitty searcher please direct me to the pages I need. I'll try to be as descriptive as I can be without rambling.

 

 

I have a ~$15 blue tooth OBD2 code scanner that I used with the “Torque Lite” and “Piston” apps and it didn't pull any codes.

 

 

I have dates, times and mileage for some occurrences thanks to video I recorded of the warning lights flashing.

 

 

The issues:

 

Shift interlock? (just noticed yesterday)

Constant clicking sound coming from shifter in park with engine running, can be shifted out of park WITHOUT pressing the brake pedal.

 

 

Occasional hesitation/jerky acceleration pulling away from a stop (at least once followed by the warning lights the next day)

 

 

Warning lights (has happened at least 3 documented times)

 

[Driving around town] “AT Oil Temp” and “Brake” lights flashing with the VDC symbol on solid.

 

[turn car off and back on] flashing brake light and a solid VDC light

 

[turn car off and back on] no warning lights

 

 

 

Yesterday 06/12/2016, 8:15ish pm 171,083 miles.

 

My wife and I were out driving around running some errands. I thought I noticed a slight hesitation/jerkiness while pulling away from a stop but my wife didn't notice anything. We decided to get a cold drink at the Sonic. It was around 100 F out so we had the car running with the AC on full blast while we waited what seemed like 4 hours for our order (real time 10-15 minutes). While we were waiting I noticed a constant clicking coming from the shifter so I turned off the radio. The clicking was quite annoying so I was playing around trying to figure out what it was and get it to stop. It sounded an awful lot like the shift interlock engaging and disengaging. The noise stopped when I pressed the brake pedal and started again when I let off. I set the parking brake and was able to shift out of park WITHOUT my foot on the brake pedal. We got our drinks and headed home. About halfway into the approximately 2 mile drive the warning lights came on.

 

 

06/06/2016, 5:25ish pm 170,285 miles

 

I was out of town trip for work approximately 325 miles from home. I drove down on 06/05 with no issues, found the hotel, dropped off my bags them went exploring around town. I noticed a subtle hesitation/jerky acceleration from a stop. My wife didn't notice this until I pointed it out. It occurred a handful of times. Morning 06/06 I drove approximately 6.5miles from my hotel to work with no warning lights or issues. Afternoon 06/06 I left work and went straight back to the hotel. The warning lights came on withing about a half mile of the hotel. We ventured out for dinner that night, then explored some more in the morning before we returned home 06/07 with no issues.

 

 

04/01/2016, 10:20ish pm 167,120 miles

 

I had forgotten about this occurrence that I had written off as a fluke. I actually found the video I took of the lights flashing while looking for something else in my phones gallery. No hesitation or jerky acceleration that I can remember. We were out driving around town maybe 45 minutes and the Warning lights came on. I drove to the nearest parking lot and shut it off and began Googling but I couldn't find anything useful. I started it back up the “VDC” light was on and the “Brake” light was flashing but the AT Oil Temp was off so I drove home. No warning lights after turning it off and on again at home.

 

 

02/15/2016 around 160,000 I got an unfix-able flat.

 

After about a week of driving on the tiny spare I replaced 2 tires with the same size make and model. The new tires had 11/32 and the old had 8/32. I checked with the local Subaru dealer before putting them on and the man I spoke with said the difference of 3/32 was acceptable. I also bought a rim and mounted the still good old tire so I could have a full sized spare.

 

 

Some unrecorded date several months before the two new tires.

 

My wife and made a “short trip” to meet her father half way for lunch about 100 miles out of town. After lunch we returned to our home town (100 miles) and drove around the metro area looking at houses and apartments for a possible next residence. Between houses a noticed a subtle hesitation/jerkiness that steadily increased to an un-ignorable and quite concerning harsh jerkiness while accelerating from a stop at about 10-15 or maybe 15-20 mph. The best way I can describe the feeling would be a standard auto shifting hard because its low on transmission fluid. I don't recall any warning lights after but that doesn't mean they didn't.

 

 

I'm sorry for such a long post. I'm hoping someone here will know something. Every time I called any dealer with an issue for any car I've been told “We will have to look at it, why don't you bring it in.”

 

 

 

I have a 2014 3.6R with the same issue. Three dealer services to diagnose (free) and Subaru Canada determined it was the Bluetooth adapter causing issues. I had it plugged in while driving. Try removing the adapter and see if the issue goes away -- it did for me and that was 4 months ago.

 

 

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The guy at the service counter said they'd check all the subsystems in the free scan check. When I mentioned the hesitation when accelerating he asked when the spark plugs had last been changed. Is that a legitimate cause or a BS service sales tactic? When I mentioned the clicking from the shifter he asked when the oil was last changed, BS or legit? When I said I can take it out of park without pressing the break he grimaced.

BS all the way. Both cases.

 

Either BIU itself, one or a few busted sensors, BIU/TCU/ECU pinouts, some fuse, some relay. I cant see any other option.

I have a 2014 3.6R with the same issue. Three dealer services to diagnose (free) and Subaru Canada determined it was the Bluetooth adapter causing issues. I had it plugged in while driving. Try removing the adapter and see if the issue goes away -- it did for me and that was 4 months ago.

 

Would that be a Bluetooth OBD2 scanner? My issues originated before I got mine but it had been plugged in since I got it.

 

I agreed to an oil change only bcause I am over due. I seriously considering canceling the oil change first thig in the morning because of both the high price and the attempted trickery.

 

He pointed out that the spark plugs should be changed every 60,000 and my car is "almost due for it's third set"

That could cause it too, especially if an app using it causes some CAN hiccups.

When I get it back I'll be sure to take the scanner out and stick it in the glove box. Maybe, fingers crossed, that's all it is

I called and canceled the oil change first thing this morning. I told them my wife had it changed and forgot to tell me until after I dropped it off.

 

I just got a call from the dealer service counter. They found a stored fault for the TCM having to do with a loss of power (he didn't specify what code, I'll ask when I pick the car). The tech made a note to ask me about the OBD2 plug suggesting it might contribute to the problem.

 

He did try to sell me some unrelated services and mentioned changin the transmission fluid every 75000 miles. I pointed out that the owners manual specifies it's a lifetime fluid. He countered with "we do get all four seasons here so we recommend changing the transmission fluid every 75000 miles" I guess the mileage seems reasonable but why call it a "lifetime" fluid if it needs changed?

 

The tech couldn't replicate the shifter coming out of park without pressing the break pedal but will play with it some more.

 

He pushed for a spark plug change at ~$280, is that reasonable for these? It sounds outrageous to me. I haven't looked into it but I assume with their location they would be a large pain in the back side to change them myself.

It calls for 2.2 hours labor, so 280 is a fair price. You could do it much cheaper by yourself, but it is a bit of a pain. Not too bad though.

It calls for 2.2 hours labor, so 280 is a fair price. You could do it much cheaper by yourself, but it is a bit of a pain. Not too bad though.

 

The plugs are also $20 per cylinder as well.

The plugs are also $20 per cylinder as well.

 

If I remember correctly he said that pice included the plugs. I'll look into doing them myself. I have access to some free labor that could be very helpful.

 

I'll post the info (list of suggested services) they give me when I pick up the car.

Two codes were found in the history C0045 TCM malfunction and C0042 battery supply voltage. They completed diagnostic procedures for the codes, the programming was correct for the vehicle, voltage Supply from Battery to the TCM unit was good. The TCM unit resistance was within specs. They cleared the memory for the TCM and test-drove car and when they returned there were no codes stored.

 

They were unable to replicate any of the issues I experienced. I was not surprised as the issues where intermittent.

 

They suggested I resurface front and rear brake rotors have the power steering system fluid change transmission fluid changed rotate the tires new spark plugs for a total of $1,420.89. For each repair item there is a paragraph describing the service and what will happen if they don't perform the service. Each paragraph includes pictures of worst case before and best case after for the parts involved.

 

If you would like I can take pictures of the invoice and the suggested service paperwork.

^^^Ah yes, the famous line " It is within spec" My favorite

almost $1500 in services? do they have a boat payment due?

 

Jeez that is Lexus pricing territory there.....