Nameless Performance Posted December 2, 2016 Share Posted December 2, 2016 I could, but I don't see how that conversation would go. My problem is that I only have what's posted in this thread, which is all second-hand (from their perspective of me engaging them), and I lack a lot of details that Nameless would undoubtedly want in order to determine what the problem is. We think the issue is the join of the dump pipe to the main exhaust pipe. But I have no evidence of this other than "only a little more than a handful of people installed the downpipe, some said they overboost, and others said they didn't, and you changed the design." I'm not going to win anything with that argument because they're going to ask a bunch of questions about the install and the tune that I'm unable to answer. The way I see it, I have two options: start to get on their case about testing the revised downpipe on Ryan's car... or just have them install my downpipe on my car. If we can get them involved directly in an install (and I'm willing to wave money in their face once I have it set aside to encourage that), then we cut out a lot of the questions they would otherwise ask. And with a local protuner involved, it should make communication easier to identify and hopefully solve any issues that arise. This is why I'm not really upset about the situation, yet. I'm disappointed, sure. And I am a little frustrated that there's some feet dragging on testing the revised downpipe on Ryan's car. But I'm not ready to revolt because I don't yet have enough details to be able to really press my case. If they rebuff my attempts to engage them AND rebuff Ryan's attempts to get the revised downpipe tested, then my tolerance for this will start disappearing pretty quickly. Just spoke with one of the owners about you since you are local. We want you to go and do the normal install then take it straight to English racing for the tune by Aaron. If there are any issues after the tune about the issues you guys are talking about here on the forums we will then take over your car and do what is necessary to figure it out. Let me know your thoughts. Nameless Performance, Inc. 1061 Dale St Woodland, WA 98674 (360) 263-5001 http://www.namelessperformance.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nameless Performance Posted December 2, 2016 Share Posted December 2, 2016 Steven, yes we are familiar with several owners over the years that had overboost issues with Invidia catless. Their fixes were either to go back to the Invidia catted, port the wastegate, this usually cured the boost spikes. In extreme situations they had bigger plans for the car, they had custom exhaust manifolds designed and built with external wastegates. OK then why is no one doing those same fixes like porting the wastegate to combat the already known issue with these cars overboosting? Nameless Performance, Inc. 1061 Dale St Woodland, WA 98674 (360) 263-5001 http://www.namelessperformance.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GTEASER Posted December 2, 2016 Share Posted December 2, 2016 OK then why is no one doing those same fixes like porting the wastegate to combat the already known issue with these cars overboosting? Because Fischbach doesn't have a ported wastegate, so we shouldn't necessarily need to do it if your original DP is equal to the redesigned DP. I actually own one of your original downpipes with the S bend (I bought Swannee's when he sold his car) and one of the GB downpipes, two of them. Just haven't had the money to investigate myself or the money to invest with my tuner, and was waiting on other Stage2 parts like the new Grimmspeed 2015+WRX TMIC. GTEASER's 2012 Legacy GT - Sold GTEASER's 2009 XTeaser - Sold GTEASER's 1992 Legacy SS - Sold Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FLlegacy Posted December 2, 2016 Share Posted December 2, 2016 To be fair, should you include those who got the non-group buy part? The wastegate dump doesn't merge the same as the group buy part does. We all know who got which part there is no hiding that. Until someone can pinpoint that as the issue let's keep it simple. When there is a trend then look deeper into it. You can't cherry pick data, use it all to follow the causes and effects. Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadow_419 Posted December 2, 2016 Share Posted December 2, 2016 OK then why is no one doing those same fixes like porting the wastegate to combat the already known issue with these cars overboosting? http://legacygt.com/forums/showpost.php?p=5454591&postcount=860 Your description said no boost creep. The boost creep others had were with catless units. Your produt isn't catless. Porting the turbo exhaust housing is in no way insinuated as necessary. A tune is expected. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nameless Performance Posted December 2, 2016 Share Posted December 2, 2016 Because Fischbach doesn't have a ported wastegate, so we shouldn't necessarily need to do it if your original DP is equal to the redesigned DP. I actually own one of your original downpipes with the S bend (I bought Swannee's when he sold his car) and one of the GB downpipes, two of them. Just haven't had the money to investigate myself or the money to invest with my tuner, and was waiting on other Stage2 parts like the new Grimmspeed 2015+WRX TMIC. OK I understand that argument by visually looking at the two parts side by side. One looking slightly different still doesn't prove one is superior over the other and still doesn't explain the 5 other people with the group by part that didn't port it and didn't have over boost. This is why I continue to stress its a tuning related issue. Nameless Performance, Inc. 1061 Dale St Woodland, WA 98674 (360) 263-5001 http://www.namelessperformance.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nameless Performance Posted December 2, 2016 Share Posted December 2, 2016 http://legacygt.com/forums/showpost.php?p=5454591&postcount=860 Your description said no boost creep. The boost creep others had were with catless units. Your produt isn't catless. Porting the turbo exhaust housing is in no way insinuated as necessary. A tune is expected. Again there have been multiple people who have installed this with a correct tune and not have had an over boost issue. Simple facts stated by you guys in this forum. Nameless Performance, Inc. 1061 Dale St Woodland, WA 98674 (360) 263-5001 http://www.namelessperformance.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jojorios Posted December 2, 2016 Share Posted December 2, 2016 (edited) That's why. The highlighted section is what was supposed to differentiate this DP from any other. But, according to your statement, this DP is prone to exactly the issues it was supposed to be made to avoid. Plus, now there's a set of supporting mods that are needed? The way I read it, is that the words "Boost Creep" and "Nameless Divorced Wastgate DP" should never even of be in the same thread. I had an Invida DP which was creeping. I bought this specifically because of the highlighted. And since you guys want logs from tuners to prove something is wrong, would it be wrong for you guys to supply us with any data/logs from the tests ran when changing the design? Edited December 2, 2016 by jojorios Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nameless Performance Posted December 2, 2016 Share Posted December 2, 2016 That's why. The highlighted section is what was supposed to differentiate this DP from any other. But, according to your statement, this DP is prone to exactly the issues it was supposed to be made to avoid. Plus, now there's a set of supporting mods that are needed? I had an Invida DP which was creeping. I bought this specifically because of the highlighted. Did you install ours and have an over boost issue like you had with the Indvida? If so can you please provide me with logs. Nameless Performance, Inc. 1061 Dale St Woodland, WA 98674 (360) 263-5001 http://www.namelessperformance.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jojorios Posted December 2, 2016 Share Posted December 2, 2016 Did you install ours and have an over boost issue like you had with the Indvida? If so can you please provide me with logs. No, I haven't. I don't have the time nor the money to take a chance to go out and spend on a dyno/tune to find out I am overboosting. I already lost money doing that once and am not planning on paying again to test someones product. Now, if we are talking reimbursing all cash that is used (dyno/tune/install) if overboost occurs, then I may. Either way I am just waiting to see how this gets resolved if it does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FLlegacy Posted December 2, 2016 Share Posted December 2, 2016 (edited) This argument just goes in circles...here is the issue I see, people who bought the GB DP have already condemned Nameless because the DP worked on one car but a revised didn't work on theirs. Nameless is questioning the tuning and supporting mods because the DP did work on Fischbachs car and their experience tells them the revised should work also. Meanwhile neither side has made an apple to apples comparison. And another source has also made the same claim about the differences in turbo housing castings. Somehow someway a true comparison needs to be made between the two parts. And both sides of this need to be prepared to be wrong and adjust their perception and attitude pretty quick to find a resolution. What if Fischbachs car runs exactly the same with both DPs? Neither side should be making claims without complete data to work with. Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Tapatalk Edited December 2, 2016 by FLlegacy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Humble Rumble Posted December 2, 2016 Share Posted December 2, 2016 3.6 owner over here just like 2012 Legacy 3.6R Build Thread 5th Gen Legacy BM/BR Body Kit Compendium Thread Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nameless Performance Posted December 2, 2016 Share Posted December 2, 2016 No, I haven't. I don't have the time nor the money to take a chance to go out and spend on a dyno/tune to find out I am overboosting. I already lost money doing that once and am not planning on paying again to test someones product. Now, if we are talking reimbursing all cash that is used (dyno/tune/install) if overboost occurs, then I may. Either way I am just waiting to see how this gets resolved if it does. This is exactly my point you are basing you thoughts on someone else who had an issue. When there have been others on this forum who have not had the issue. You are not doing any testing for us as there are multiple cars out there with this same DP right now running around enjoying it. Nameless Performance, Inc. 1061 Dale St Woodland, WA 98674 (360) 263-5001 http://www.namelessperformance.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nameless Performance Posted December 2, 2016 Share Posted December 2, 2016 This argument just goes in circles...here is the issue I see, people who bought the GB DP have already condemned Nameless because the DP worked on one car but a revised didn't work on theirs. Nameless is questioning the tuning and supporting mods because the DP did work on Fischbachs car and their experience tells them the revised should work also. Meanwhile neither side has made an apple to apples comparison. And another source has also made the same claim about the differences in turbo housing castings. Somehow someway a true comparison needs to be made between the two parts. And both sides of this need to be prepared to be wrong and adjust their perception and attitude pretty quick to find a resolution. What if Fischbachs car runs exactly the same with both DPs? Neither side should be making claims without complete data to work with. Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Tapatalk Exactly why I'm here trying to gather as much data as possible. So we can come to a resolution on this! No where did we say there couldn't be an issue here but from our perspective there have been more successful installs than failures. Nameless Performance, Inc. 1061 Dale St Woodland, WA 98674 (360) 263-5001 http://www.namelessperformance.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nameless Performance Posted December 2, 2016 Share Posted December 2, 2016 Guys I want to make this simple. I feel like im beating a dead horse here. Help me HELP you! I've spent all day gathering logs and speaking with tuners for you to get this sorted. All day reading this forum and other forums about similar issues on these cars. Im doing my home work. Im not here to argue with you. Just doing my research to find the facts not stories so again if you have not installed this on your car in fear of it overboosted please do not chime in right now. We just want to hear from people who have the first hand experience please. PS. Sorry if im posting to much in a single day not sure if their are rules on that in this forum but im devoting almost all my time to this so it can be resolved quickly. We are all ready to get this over with as much as you. Nameless Performance, Inc. 1061 Dale St Woodland, WA 98674 (360) 263-5001 http://www.namelessperformance.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FLlegacy Posted December 3, 2016 Share Posted December 3, 2016 I will just add this last bit of advice, if you have a 2010 or 2011 legacy there is no reason not to put the downpipe on and load a cobb ots map for strictly a trial run, you have the AP use it to log and watch your knock and DAM. Your car will not blow up with a single run with knock. You will see right away if you will have overboost. My car felt neutered on the cobb stage 2 tune and well it was. But there was no knock or changes in DAM. It will take you half a day at most to install and then removal is even easier once the bolts have been freed up. Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellesedil Posted December 3, 2016 Share Posted December 3, 2016 (edited) Just spoke with one of the owners about you since you are local. We want you to go and do the normal install then take it straight to English racing for the tune by Aaron. If there are any issues after the tune about the issues you guys are talking about here on the forums we will then take over your car and do what is necessary to figure it out. Let me know your thoughts. This works for me. I'm looking at a January or February time-frame to have the budget for this. I have one question: Do you guys want to do the install? I'm interested in eliminating as many variables as possible, and having a different garage do the install introduces some. I have no power mods except for an AccessPort and my entire intake system is also currently stock, including all of my intercolor piping (I do have AVO pieces in my garage waiting to install). The Nameless parts I own are the full TBE with 5" double walled axlebacks and the 2015 WRX BPV with the 1" adapter hose. Essentially, I should have pretty much the exact same setup as Ryan, except I have an AccessPort for tuning and logging instead of open source and I have the revised downpipe design. Hell, our cars are even the same color. Mine is just two years younger. Edited December 3, 2016 by Ellesedil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FLlegacy Posted December 3, 2016 Share Posted December 3, 2016 Here are my latest logs if they can be of any help.datalog3.csvdatalog2.csv Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eckseleven Posted December 3, 2016 Author Share Posted December 3, 2016 (edited) Eckselven. Over bossted on his TBE with fitment issue. Got the fitment issues resolved then took the CBE off reverted to stock and have no overboost issue until you installed a Cobb intake. Was your car re tuned for that intake or did you just slap it on? Do you have logs you can send? Yeah, I just slapped that intake on without a tune Here is what happened in full: Got DP installed by independent shop. Drove 3 hours to tuner. Car would overboost beyond all control. Tuner discovered interference issues with flapper. I called NP that day and just got the usual "push it forward" line. Tuner reinstalled DP as requested but issue remained. I drove 3 hours back home. This was after being at the tuner's shop from 9AM-7PM I left with a temp map that allowed me to just run spring pressure and -$400(+?) in failed tuning/troubleshooting costs. Tuner sent pictures and details to NP via facebook. I don't think it went anywhere after that. Removed DP myself and tapped dump tube with hammer to make clearance with wastegate flapper. Overboost solved for the time being. Over the next few months I tried various exhaust configurations. Full TBE, stock CBE, and axle backs. In ALL configurations I could exceed wastegate spring pressure; as in 15-18 psi peak. Keep in mind I still had the temp tune with WGDC set to 0% across the board. ...several months pass trying to figure out how to enjoy my car again....discussion on this thread continues with no clear sign of a solution through NP. My original tuner closed shop and left to work for Cobb. I figured things were "as good as they can be" so I went to TA next for an etune. Also added an intake at this time. Car ran fine initially when it was 100+ degrees but as soon as it dropped 70s-80s it would overboost. TA sent me a revised map and things were good for awhile. Then again, as it got colder (30s-40s), I saw boost creeping to 21. I asked for another map revision and that's what she sits now. This was a week ago and haven't had a chance to test again. Hard to believe it has been over a year. I was the first one to have real issues with this DP and initially got a lot of push back on this forum (no offense, guys) that something must be wrong with my tune, my boost control system, etc. No one accepted at first that the DP was to blame. We all wanted to believe what was promised, including myself despite my issues. I spent countless hours under my car changing things, inspecting things for the rest of the group. I spent a couple hundred in new tools to help diagnose as well as new exhaust parts. My car was on jack-stands for days while I got rides to work. Where it is now it seems fine but I honestly don't have a lot of confidence in it. I think jojorios hit the nail on the head. If I had bought a different DP I'd be willing to accept the chaos I've had to deal with. But what I had to deal with was not what I, or anyone else, expected with this product. Edited December 3, 2016 by eckseleven forgot to mention hammer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
s2baru Posted December 3, 2016 Share Posted December 3, 2016 Why should the members here provide you with the data, when technically you have no data with it(redesign) to prove wether something is right or wrong? You only have the original design tested. So yes the people here and the company are just going to do a figure 8 with one another. You have the advantage over the members because have a controlled test with no other variables. That being Fischbachs car and the English racing. The only variable is simply the redesign. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FLlegacy Posted December 3, 2016 Share Posted December 3, 2016 (edited) Why should the members here provide you with the data, when technically you have no data with it(redesign) to prove wether something is right or wrong? You only have the original design tested. So yes the people here and the company are just going to do a figure 8 with one another. You have the advantage over the members because have a controlled test with no other variables. That being Fischbachs car and the English racing. The only variable is simply the redesign. Technically that isn't true and it has been stated more than once by not just Nameless but also Fahr-side, the turbo housing castings are not all identical and a few millimeters here and there can affect flow a lot. This is why I think it would be more prudent to take a car with overboost and put the original DP on it and see if it alleviates the problem. If it doesn't then back to the inconsistencies inherent to mass produced cast parts. Eckseleven do you have any logs from when you were overboosting, those would be nice to see what your WGDC was set at to compare to mine. Edited December 3, 2016 by FLlegacy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
s2baru Posted December 3, 2016 Share Posted December 3, 2016 I was thinking of a more direct approach ...then working into all the other possibilities that mayyyyy be causing issue(s) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FLlegacy Posted December 3, 2016 Share Posted December 3, 2016 (edited) I was thinking of a more direct approach ...then working into all the other possibilities that mayyyyy be causing issue(s) What could be more direct than starting with a car that overboosts on a GB DP, and then doing nothing else but swap the DP and see what happens. This is exactly the issue being claimed, the GB DP being the problem. That eliminates the possibility of Fishbach having a more free-flowing casting in his turbo that works fine with either DP. Im almost ready to just unbolt my axle backs and see what happens myself, in fact I might on my next day off. If you really want to nitpick Nameless could decide to do an install and tune ,post logs showing no overboost and tell everyone to go fly a kite and kick rocks. Edited December 3, 2016 by FLlegacy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BBPeik Posted December 3, 2016 Share Posted December 3, 2016 Hey you two. Take it to the shack already. My someday I will be done with it thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GTEASER Posted December 3, 2016 Share Posted December 3, 2016 3.6 owner over here just like If you're happy with your power, go ahead and eat all the popcorn you want. GTEASER's 2012 Legacy GT - Sold GTEASER's 2009 XTeaser - Sold GTEASER's 1992 Legacy SS - Sold Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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