Grimmspeed TMIC for 5th Gen GT

It is with great pleasure that I can report to our little GT community that the TMIC that Grimmspeed has been developing for the past year for the 2015+WRX is in fact A DIRECT FIT for our 2010-2012 Legacy GTs. Myself and several other members here have been following the development of this for the last year or more knowing that this awesome product would likely fit our cars. Grimmspeed has spent countless hours on developing and testing this TMIC prior to bringing it to market.

 

A special thanks to mcg_ who on short notice drove over to Grimmspeed yesterday. And a big thanks also to Chase and Paul at Grimmspeed who did the test fit on mcg_'s car.

 

 

 

 

Fitment and GB Facts:

This is a direct fit for our factory intercooler. This will bolt directly to our intercooler brackets, throttle body and OEM charge pipe, RacerX charge pipe, or AVO silicone charge pipe. It fits with the factory engine cover (trimmed) and seals to our hood scoop splitter in that configuration. If you wanted to run without the engine cover and use the Grimmspeed lower splitter, you would have to custom fabricate the splitter connection between it and our hood scoop splitter. The Grimmspeed upper scoop splitter that bolts to the 2015+ WRX hood will not fit on our cars. Grimmspeed's 2015+ WRX charge pipe does not fit our cars.

 

Currently Grimmspeed is doing a Group Buy on NASIOC which ends on August 8, 2016.

 

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2799791

 

The development thread can be found here.

 

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2708711

 

 

 

http://i.imgur.com/ANlw7Ne.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/EVv9n6j.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/cBr1yow.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/VUaQgfA.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/UKWxFuK.jpg

 

I may or may not have drove over to Grimmspeed where they test fitted the 2015+ WRX TMIC on my 2010 LGT. In paraphrasing what the Grimmspeed folk said, it fit like a glove even with the stock engine cover and stock scoop duct.

 

Regarding slave cylinder contact, the Grimmspeed TMIC does not rest on the slave cylinder nor did it appear to be able to contact the slave cylinder under typical vibration. If you did physically wrench on it, it would have slight contact (which is expected).

 

Big ups to Chase & Paul (pictured) who are both super friendly and knowledgeable folks.

 

I did ask Chase whether he believes that this TMIC, despite being designed for the FA 2.0 of the 2015+ WRX, would function well with the EJ2.5 of the 2010-2012 LGT, and he said that he believes that it would.

 

Give me some internet points forum folks!!! :lol:

 

NOTE: I am in no way promoting this product for Grimmspeed or receiving compensation from Grimmspeed, I am just super excited about the existence of this piece of engineered art.

I did ask Chase whether he believes that this TMIC, despite being designed for the FA 2.0 of the 2015+ WRX, would function well with the EJ2.5 of the 2010-2012 LGT, and he said that he believes that it would.

 

 

 

Since our OEM TMIC is the exact same one as the stock 2015+WRX and stock 2014+FXT, I expect that we will see all the benefits of Grimmspeed's extensive R&D on cooling and flow that those cars see despite our slightly larger engine displacement. Remember, our redline is not as high as the FA motor which is designed and tuned for top end power.

I believe I saw Grimmspeed patrolling the forum earlier today, so perhaps they'll chime in too and invite people to join the FA20DIT GB over at NASIOC or hold one for the 5th gen LGT crowd.

I believe I saw Grimmspeed patrolling the forum earlier today, so perhaps they'll chime in too and invite people to join the FA20DIT GB over at NASIOC or hold one for the 5th gen LGT crowd.

 

Yes, they have been thanking several posts here, and I sent them a PM with a link to this thread. I doubt they will do a separate GB here, but they might.

Great news! on a side note, if I decided to sell my current, uninstalled Racer X TMIC, it would also fit the 2015+ WRX and 2014+ Forester? If so, think I'll post it up on CL and see if there's any interest.

Yup RacerX confirmed to fit FA20DITs (2015+ WRX, current-gen FXT, likely also 5th gen Legacy DIT and Levorg GT-S).

Can't thank you guys enough for pushing us to confirm fitment! Sadly I was preoccupied during the test fit, but it sounds like it went very well.

 

If you'd like to participate in the group buy and have a NASIOC login, please post up there and we'll get you sorted out. If not, please send us a PM here and we'll do our best!

 

To preempt the question, we can't sell the TMIC kits without the WRX splitters, as we manufacture them all in matching numbers and won't be stocking LGT-specific kits without splitters. Please feel free to use them creatively or discard!

 

Matt Beenen

Engineering

So much want. Looking more and more like I may have to break down and make an account on nasty sock...

Yup RacerX confirmed to fit FA20DITs (2015+ WRX, current-gen FXT, likely also 5th gen Legacy DIT and Levorg GT-S).

 

Thanks Perscitus- I also emailed Bryan and he confirmed as well. Looks like my Racer X is going up for sale on CL, next up will most likely be Grimmspeed baby!

Forgive my relative ignorance here... is the GS TMIC an upgrade over the RacerX? Thicker? Better air flow? Help me spend more money! Ha ha

Yes. The RacerX unit was thrown together quickly without any real testing to get a product for us 5th Gen GTs that was better than the OEM TMIC. Grimmspeed has been working on this for well over a year, flow testing multiple fin count cores, and designing end tanks that flow well, in order to get the best cooling and least pressure drop across the core, and running their design iterations on a Stage2 car for months at a time in different ambient temperature situations. Overall, the pressure drop across the GS TMIC is lower than the RacerX at higher boost levels, and the cooling is better as well. I encourage you to read the thread that is linked. It also links to another thread where the RacerX was the direct comparison. WGDC was much lower on the GS TMIC because of the increased efficiency.

I don't mean to sound like I am speaking bad about Bryan and the RacerX TMIC. It's just the that the reality is that while his product got us into Stage2 boost levels, and it served it's purpose in the dark ages of the 5th Gen GT aftermarket black hole, there was no data, testing or development done to back up the product. It was a bigger core than stock, yes, but it was not an optimal design.

...this was enough to pull me out of the lurk mode I've been in lately, this awesome news. Grimmspeed makes excellent products and the fitment spot on plus the engine cover still works w/a little trimming. Now I just have to get nod of approval from my better half

Link to direct testing between OEM TMIC, RacerX TMIC and KillerB TMIC.

 

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2717424

I can't believe I am the only one who has gotten in on the GB so far.

I can't believe I am the only one who has gotten in on the GB so far.

 

was hoping to unload my brembos to fund the GS TMIC, but it doenst look like that will happen before the GB ends

^^^I would gladly take those Brembos off you hands, but sadly I don't have the money right now. Someone made me buy a 1000 dollar intercooler. Damn enablers.

Hell, i'd unload just the fronts to at least mostly fund the GS TMIC

I'd gladly join in for one if the plan wasn't to go FMIC and other wild bits. Looks like it's capable of 400+ range and still efficient

I can't believe I am the only one who has gotten in on the GB so far.

 

An intercooler is a long ways off for me. Pretty low on my list of priorities right now.

An intercooler is a long ways off for me. Pretty low on my list of priorities right now.

 

im going about it in the opposite direction, looking to do everything BUT the DP and turbo Havent located my mancard to get me to that level yet

This was posted by GrimmSpeed in the GB thread to respond to some questions.

 

Realize, that this intercooler was designed with the FA20DIT ECU logic in mind. The FA20DIT uses a temperature sensor in the intake manifold, to monitor charge temps post-intercooler, our cars do not have this feature. The FA20DIT ECU pulls timing automatically when it sees high charge temps, our ECU does not.

 

But the benefits still apply to our cars. Rather than the automatic timing strategies of the FA20DIT ECU, our tuners set the timing in our maps based on when they see knock at higher boost levels. Given a cooler charge, that timing can be set more aggressively to create more power because there will be less knock present. A good intercooler will allow us to make more power, with less knock for a wider spread of rpm range.

 

The last gen alternator cover won't work unfortunately, as the bracket holding on the FA engine cover is very different. As far as us developing our own alternator cover I can neither confirm nor deny, but I will tell you that we've talked about it and thrown around some pretty good ideas and designs. No promises on its development, but I won't say it isn't a possibility.

 

 

 

We did not test it against any FMICs. If you'll notice, we didn't test it against any other TMICs though either. What we did was collect info and talk to tuners and see what the most recommended, highest performing INTERCOOLER for the FA WRX was. And there was one resounding answer, so we chose that specific intercooler to test our own against.

 

Also, a FMIC kit did not end up in our testing because it serves a different purpose when a TMIC is an option. A FMIC requires substantially more volume of tubing, a much more difficult and involved installation, and the removal of your crash beam. A FMIC definitely has an advantage, but it's when you're making the kind of horsepower figures that no one is making yet. I promise if we make a FMIC kit, we'll test it against other FMICs though.

 

I would go ahead and ask ETS what about their data for their FMIC (efficiency, pressure drop, outlet temps, etc), and you can compare it to what we've provided.

 

 

 

I got you beastly, I'm just going to split this post up so I don't miss anything.

 

 

 

The CFM rating, as measured on a flowbench, is an indicator of restriction. The industry standard pressure to measure this at is 28in of water, which is equal to only 1psi. In our testing we started all the way down at nearly 0 psi, to where our flow bench maxes out, to about 1.44psi, just to show as much data as possible. I'm going to bring this chart back just to get everything in one place:

 

http://www.grimmspeed.com/content/images/tmic_fa20dit_results_5.jpg

 

At only 1 psi, the GrimmSpeed TMIC is flowing 238CFM vs the OEM's 251CFM. So the OEM is outflowing our top mount by 13 CFM (about 5%), and showing that it has less restriction.

 

Now where I'm headed with this is here: If we were then to do the same flow bench test through the OEM intercooler, and through a straight piece of pipe, which would have the higher CFM value? The straight piece of pipe, since it offers nearly no restriction at all. So surely it would be a better choice than the intercooler, right? Well, no it wouldn't because a straight piece of pipe is a terrible heat exchanger. The restriction portion is an inherit downside of what makes an intercooler effective.

 

 

 

Now, you're not really "moving more air." You're flowing the exact same amount of air, but just with a pressure drop. The turbo is the deciding factor of how much air is going to "get moved." And a back of the envelope calculation shows that:

 

Assuming the turbo is rated for about 40 lbs/min (a good estimate), and that we're at atmospheric pressure and it's pretty cold (0 Celsius), the maximum mass of air that the turbo can move is about 540 CFM. Now recall that the CFM rating of the intercooler at ONLY 1psi was 238 CFM, and it doesnt sound so bad anymore does it

 

SOOOOOO, you're mostly right, the main upgrade here would be to move air that's colder than the stock intercooler. But it's not "more" air, and in fact it's at a slightly higher pressure drop, because that is what is required from the intercooler in order to be able to absorb (and thus reject heat).

 

http://www.grimmspeed.com/content/images/tmic_fa20dit_results_4.jpg

 

And that is EXACTLY what we're accomplishing here. We're moving air out of the intercooler that is on average 30 degrees colder than what the OEM TMIC can do. And we already know that in order to do that, we have to be more restrictive. We've seen what the difference is on the flow bench, but what is it when measured on the car?

 

http://www.grimmspeed.com/content/images/tmic_fa20dit_results_3.jpg

 

On average, only about 1/3 of a PSI.

 

Now what should you care about more, that .3 PSI, or the 30 degree difference? Well, here is where your ECU comes into play. The two most obvious things that a hotter air charge will do: Hotter air is less dense, meaning there is less of it for a given volume (ie your cylinders!), so there is less potential to make power. And two (pay close attention here, because this is the money maker) once the temperature sensor in your intake manifold sees temperatures over a certain value (I don't remember off the top of my head) it will start to remove timing in order to decrease the chances of knock (assuming it isn't already) to protect the engine. Removing timing also decreases horsepower. If you'll notice, we're literally beating the crap out of this car on the dyno, doing 3 third gear pulls in a row trying to get as much heat in the system. The outlet temps are not even to 100F on our intercooler! The outlet temperatures on the first pull of the stock intercooler are even above that.

 

 

 

Again, it isn't less airflow, it's a slightly higher restriction. A restriction of only .3 of a psi (when the turbo is making 20lbs of boost) over stock. The 30 degree lower delta (and more importantly maintaining low outlet temperatures) is more important than the .3psi of restriction you're facing while the turbo is making 20psi of boost. The huge advantage here is that you can simply tune the .3psi out, but you can't decrease the outlet temperatures without an intercooler change.

 

Now as far as a small increase in power, that's debatable. I already covered the advantages of lowering outlet temps for the ECU. It provides a substantially increased ability to maintain power levels by not reducing timing, especially when doing long multiple-gear pulls, or quick successive ones. It helps to prevent knock (which prevents engine damage). And it also provides the additional cooling NECESSARY when running higher than stock boost levels.

 

 

 

Yep, it's slightly more restrictive than stock, and I hope you understand why now

 

 

 

 

 

Chase

Engineering

It's gotta be better than the last big group buy.. Right.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

It's gotta be better than the last big group buy.. Right.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

At least it was tested. And it's not a design revision to reduce production cost.

so much want for this TMIC... thinking about getting one of those 0% interest credit lines to soften the blow...