Built Spec B Rebuild 3rd Time

I'm starting this thread to document my first rebuild of this car's Spec B engine, but it's actually the cars third built engine.

I have another thread in the 4th Gen forum on my race car, and a bit about me, please feel free to read it too. http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/cool-article-05-scca-wagons-floating-around-still-73859.html

My car was formally Drew888s 2008 Spec B. Here in the LGT forum and even more so on NAISIOC he documented rebuilding his engine twice with forged internals and a whole lot of ANGST. I'm not going to go into detail what happened the first two times, if you really want to delve into the past rebuilds here's the links:

First Build: http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2264719

Second Build: http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2425429 This build was completed May 2013. The car has been street driven since then, never been to a road track or drag strip.

When I bought the car it came with a spare longblock left over from the first build. Here's the build sheets:

Build #2 and what is in the Spec B today:

Electronics/Tuning

Cobb Tuning AccessPort v2 (AP-SUB-003)

Delicious Stg4 Tune 330whp/336wtq performed at Infamous Performance

GrimmSpeed EBCS

Innovative MTX-L Wideband o2 – This sits in an AVO gauge pod on the dash.

Turbo/Induction/Exhaust

Tomioka 20G /TD05H – Maybe 60k mi and no shaft play as of when the engine went in.

RacerX FMIC Piping w/ Larger Custom Core Tomioka EL Header + Up pipe (DEI Titanium Heat Wrapped)

Turbo XS Catted DP (DEI Titanium Heat Wrapped)

Perrin, Mid-Ypipe, Prodrive Mufflers – The famous Prodrives.

KS-Tech 73mm CAI

AEM Dry Flow Filter

GoFastBits Respons Recirculating BPV (Black)

GrimmSpeed 8mm Phenolic Spacers

Perrin Performance Turbo Inlet Hose (Black)

Infamous Performance Turbo/AVCS Oil Supply Line v2

Crawford AOS- Air Oil Separator V2

Engine/Fueling

Stage 4 – Forged Manley pistons 9.2:1 - Instead of 8.2:1? So there is more torque off boost.

ACL Race Bearings

ARP Head Studs

OEM STI 11mm Oil Pump (shimmed)

Gates Racing Timing Kit

Cosworth “like” Heads – 2007 STI V25B modified and purchased from BallPeenHamr (a Cosworth employee whose job is to build all Cosworth heads) on NASIOC.com. Much more detail is there from pictures to before/after specs.

5 angle valve job

Ported/Polished/Seat/Bowl blend/Ferrea dual valve springs hardened spring seats and locks, titanium retainers, Stock STI cams.

OEM valves and seals

OEM WRX Water Pump

OEM STI Head Gasket

Killer B Motorsports Oil Pick Up

Killer B Motorsports Windage Tray

Killer B Motorsports Oil Pan

Fumoto Oil Drain Plug/Valve

Brisk Silver Spark Plugs

Custom DW 65c fuel pump assembly – With IP&T Pump Housing Bracket

Deatschwerks 850cc Fuel Injectors

More details on the heads in Build #2:

Head Details:BallPeenHamr on NASIOC

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2407476

Rebuilt V25B Cylinder Heads (from 07 STi) - Sensibly modified, assembled and ready to run!

The V25B casting is exclusive to the USDM 2007 Sti from the factory. They are essentially the same heads found on a 2008+ Sti (W25 casting) but with single AVCS.

These V25B's will also bolt up and run on any 2004-2006 USDM Sti (which comes with B25 castings) EJ257 engines as well. With a few oil lines and 07 head gaskets you can buy from your dealership, and some aftermarket caps to block off the air ports on the back, you'll be pretty much set to go.

This is a "001" V25B head set which is particularly unique since they require the plastic half-moon gaskets (which I included) on the back like the B25 heads. My guess is Subaru used the machine tooling from the previous model year. This feature isn't good or bad by any means, just rare.

Soda blasted and thoroughly washed

Hardness checked 91-93 rockwell "E" scale - same as new

Guides checked - hardly worn

Newen (CNC) valve job - 5 angle intake, 4 angle+ radius exhaust. Stock valve diameters.

Port work - Seat/Bowl blend and mild short turn reshape int and exh, .020" removed from intake floor to increase cross-sectional area. Thats all!

Stock OEM valves - refaced and back-cut, tipped to fine tune lash

Flow benched - SuperFlow SF-1020 @ 28" test pressure. CFM

Regular numbers = before service,Bold numbers = after service

lift /Intake /Str Exh/ Dog-leg exh

.050" /44-43 /36-37/ 37-37

.100" /89-89 /78-78/ 76-77

.200" /177-180 /154-174/ 148-159

.300" /226-241 /184-217/ 167-185

.400" /237-255 /194-225/ 172-190

.500" /241-259 /197-226/ 175-191

AVG. /169-178 /141-160/ 130-140

Deck faces fly-cut and lapped

Assembled with brand new OEM valve stem seals,Ferrea dual valve springs. hardened spring seats and locks, titanium retainers

Stock STi cams - single AVCS

Valve lash is done - All but 4 buckets are brand new. They are setup to yield .008" intake, .013" exhaust when torqued to the block. (OEM spec)

The Spare LongBlock from Build #1:

Manley forged 9.2:1's, ACL Race Bearings, ARP Head Studs, OEM STI 11mm Oil Pump, heads have all new OEM parts except for a 3 angle.

Now the why of the 3rd rebuild:

I went to ORP for the Team Continental - ORP instructor training today. The Spec B I bought from Drew a couple of months ago had been running well, so I flushed the brake fluid, put in track pads, topped up the oil and radiator, and headed to ORP.

The car lasted 20 minutes on the track. The first clue something was wrong I noticed the water temp at 245....so I slowed down to let it cool off and the slower quieter speed I heard some strange sounds..., bad strange sounds.

I made it back the pits.....there I heard the dreaded noise of a spun bearing/rod knock. Maybe it's not a spun bearing/rod knock, but it sounds exactly like all the YouTube videos of Subaru spun bearing failures.

Dagnabit!

I'm not sure yet what I'll do to fix it. The car came with a spare longblock with forged internals but of dubious condition. I will probably take the longblock apart and have it inspected, then use it as a base for the new engine in the Spec B.

Or maybe I'll do a MR Tris OEM #ynansb.

Then I'll see what can be salvaged from the spun bearing longblock. Hopefully the fancy ported heads are fine!

I'm tempted to convert the Spec B motor to as close to a clone of the race car engine as possible to make it an easy swap when the race engine fails. That would mean converting to an OEM shortblock, STI metal intake, 1000cc injectors, composite TGV deletes, a Blouch 1.5XTR...and a lot more stuff. It would also mean having a lot of parts to sell. Probably not worth it.

I also now have a spare Forced Performance 18g from the race car I could use in the build. The Tomioka 20g has a lot of lag then comes on like a freight train for a street car.

Lots of possible options...

First I'd like to solicit your opinions and input. Then I'll choose a coarse and document the whole re-build here.

For now I'm off to ORP to put the car in my trailer and bring her home. I'll take some pics, a video of the sounds, and post them up tonight.

Hmmm...you want to buy my car?

I have enough drama for now.....

I'm tempted to convert the Spec B motor to as close to a clone of the race car engine as possible to make it an easy swap when the race engine fails. That would mean converting to an OEM shortblock, STI metal intake, 1000cc injectors, composite TGV deletes, a Blouch 1.5XTR...and a lot more stuff. It would also mean having a lot of parts to sell. Probably not worth it.

I'll give you my worthless thoughts and questions sort of in no particular order -

things I know nothing about - do you have some sort of agreement with your sponsors that you will race X amount of races in a season or that you will be at particular races? If so having a spare engine to swap in quickly seems to be more important to not lose a sponsorship.

Rebuilding a second race engine to go in a DD is expensive - would that money be better spent on the race car? is having that money tied up in the Spec.B worth not spending 6-8k on the race engine?

How much is ease of swapping it worth? Is it really important to be able to lift and drop in the engine without changing out headers, turbo, manifold, etc, etc?

Does it make more sense to build two separate engines?

1. Race longbock - use what you can from rebuild 1s engine. Build a race engine to the same spec as the current race cars engine. But leave off headers / turbo / manifold etc. Basically build this with any of the new parts that would need extensive cleaning / replacement if your current race engine failed (new oil pickup, pan, oil cooler, etc). But not as a 100% drop in replacement.

2. Rebuild Spec.B into a fun daily driver. Sell what makes sense, lower the performance of it. Don't spend a lot of extra money on the engine. Just enough to get it running reliably.

or - cost wise

if you combine 1 and 2 into one build is it about the same price?

Honestly, I know this is nothing you haven't thought about before and I am probably wasting your time...But hey, that's why we are on legacy GT right?

I guess I look at it as what's your goal?

I am assuming it's - have the money and a working car in order to race for the season without missing any races. And that the rebuild of Drew's car should be done with that in mind. If you rebuild the Spec.B into a race ready swap - if you ever need to make that swap you are in the same place as you are now. What to do for an engine for the Spec.B.

I almost think, thinking of them as a completely separate platform might be the way to go.

OB2.5XT I like your thinking, I am going along those same lines.

Your point about the Spec B being made a reliable DD is a good one. Right now it's more of a street monster than a refined GT. Between the competition clutch and the turbo coming on like gangbusters at 4K, it's just a little too much track car and not enough street GT for my tastes. I already have a race car, I don't need a street legal track car!

My current plan, which is of course subject to change at a whim:

1) Buy an OEM shortblock. Use the stock heads off Build #1 on the OEM block and drop it in the Spec B. I'll also demod/detune the Spec B to a more street GT state. Meaning take off the FMIC, the Tomioka 20G, the Crawford AOS, the competition clutch, and probably some other parts. Save some of those parts, sell some of those parts. Obtain a used TMIC, and either use the FP 18g or obtain a rebuilt stock turbo. The goal will be a smooth but fast DD/GT car.

2) Use the shortblock from Build #1 as the base for a spare race engine. It has forged pistons and other stuff that might be useful in the race engine. Put on the ported heads from Build #2 (currently on the Spec B, but would be wasted on the new goal above), along with the Killer B pan, Cosworth scraper, and an STI or Moroso pickup. I'll probably stop there. If the race engine fails I'll use the fuel rails/injectors/coils/intake mani ....off it. I should be able to make the parts exchange/swap off an engine stand and into the race car in a week no problem.

At least that's what I woke up thinking at 5:00 AM!

Thanks for your input!

Sounds like a good plan. With regards the spare motor, would you ever try to swap the motor on a race weekend?

We both know, it can be done.

Sounds like a good plan. With regards the spare motor, would you ever try to swap the motor on a race weekend?

That would mean having it with me. Which means I'd need a bigger trailer. And more tools in the trailer like an engine picker/hoist. I've seen it done, but not with the space I have available.

For something like the 25 hours of Thunderhill it might be worth the effort, but not for a regular ICSCC race weekend.

Unless you want to be on my crew and bring the engine and tools in your wagon!

That would mean having it with me. Which means I'd need a bigger trailer. And more tools in the trailer like an engine picker/hoist. I've seen it done, but not with the space I have available.

For something like the 25 hours of Thunderhill it might be worth the effort, but not for a regular ICSCC race weekend.

 

Unless you want to be on my crew and bring the engine and tools in your wagon!

Well, I wouldn't mind being on the crew. . . I come with a crane and stand..

Well, I wouldn't mind being on the crew. . . I come with a crane and stand..

Thanks, I'll post up the list of events in the PacNW forum!

Well, I wouldn't mind being on the crew. . . I come with a crane and stand..

Every pit stop will begin with the comment "ynansb"

Hey Gator...well this was a tough read. I can't say I would have expected that. I have beaten on it and it was never let me down but I also had never put it in a track environment and certainly not seen 245*. I would be really curious if the source could be pinned down.

Sounds like this is a solid plan. Looking forward to updates and to see light at the end of the tunnel.

OB2.5XT I like your thinking, I am going along those same lines.

 

Your point about the Spec B being made a reliable DD is a good one. Right now it's more of a street monster than a refined GT. Between the competition clutch and the turbo coming on like gangbusters at 4K, it's just a little too much track car and not enough street GT for my tastes. I already have a race car, I don't need a street legal track car!

 

My current plan, which is of course subject to change at a whim:

 

1) Buy an OEM shortblock. Use the stock heads off Build #1 on the OEM block and drop it in the Spec B. I'll also demod/detune the Spec B to a more street GT state. Meaning take off the FMIC, the Tomioka 20G, the Crawford AOS, the competition clutch, and probably some other parts. Save some of those parts, sell some of those parts. Obtain a used TMIC, and either use the FP 18g or obtain a rebuilt stock turbo. The goal will be a smooth but fast DD/GT car.

 

2) Use the shortblock from Build #1 as the base for a spare race engine. It has forged pistons and other stuff that might be useful in the race engine. Put on the ported heads from Build #2 (currently on the Spec B, but would be wasted on the new goal above), along with the Killer B pan, Cosworth scraper, and an STI or Moroso pickup. I'll probably stop there. If the race engine fails I'll use the fuel rails/injectors/coils/intake mani ....off it. I should be able to make the parts exchange/swap off an engine stand and into the race car in a week no problem.

 

At least that's what I woke up thinking at 5:00 AM!

 

Thanks for your input!

Hey Gator...well this was a tough read. I can't say I would have expected that. I have beaten on it and it was never let me down but I also had never put it in a track environment and certainly not seen 245*. I would be really curious if the source could be pinned down.

 

Sounds like this is a solid plan. Looking forward to updates and to see light at the end of the tunnel.

No problem Drew! I knew what could happen when I bought your car and took it out to the track. I will of course post up pics and document as I go to help others here avoid these issues, although with track cars it's simply going to happen, especially heavily modded ones.

No problem Drew! I knew what could happen when I bought your car and took it out to the track. I will of course post up pics and document as I go to help others here avoid these issues, although with track cars it's simply going to happen, especially heavily modded ones.

"If something doesn't break, you weren't trying hard enough"

I took the heads off the Build 1 spare longblock tonight. Drew only ran this build with these heads for a couple of months, he saw his temp climbing, pulled over and started over with build #2. The shortblock had gone q about a year with a different set of heads.

I don't see any signs of headgasket failure. The headgaskets, block, and heads were all in good shape. I tried to check for warpage but realized I need a finer feeler guage, none of mine go down to .002mm.

Ya'll please have a look at these pics and let me know what you think. Is the carbonizing excessive on the piston tops? Do I need to split the case halves and pull the pistons out for ring inspection?

Thoughts and Opinions Please!

................

Thanks!

http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/boxkita-hg-radiator-replacement-233455p13.html has some pics from my engine.

This one

looks like not enough carbonisation. Mine that looked like that had a leaking valve that was washing oil in and keeping it clean.

You need to fill some of those holes...

more pics with heads & matching cylinders - http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/boxkita-hg-radiator-replacement-233455p15.html

You need to fill some of those holes...

Are you being serious?

Are you being serious?

Yeah. I have a semi-closed deck. For a racekor engine, you want that.

http://www.outfrontmotorsports.com/engine_blocks.htm

Yeah. I have a semi-closed deck. For a racekor engine, you want that.

http://www.outfrontmotorsports.com/engine_blocks.htm

It is a semi-closed deck.

And technically even the Open deck in this image is semi-closed because it's connected on the sides. A true open deck is only connected between the cylinders.

All Rallispec shortblocks are semi closed Subaru oem blocks. The difference is in their high end race motors they install Darton sleeves:

Rallispec block:

..

Note they don't sleeve them until 650 Hp+ !

Outfront does tjem in house. however a competent machine shop should be able to do it

You had me going because I knew the Outfront makes closed deck blocks. I edited the above post with new info and images at the same time your were also responding.

And did you see this thread about cracked Outfront closed deck blocks?

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2426096

http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/boxkita-hg-radiator-replacement-233455p13.html has some pics from my engine.

 

This one

looks like not enough carbonisation. Mine that looked like that had a leaking valve that was washing oil in and keeping it clean.

The cylinder on the left looks almost normal except for that orange shit, was there any high octane fuel used?

The cylinder on the right is far too clean. Car wasnt consuming coolant?

The cylinder on the left looks almost normal except for that orange shit, was there any high octane fuel used?

 

The cylinder on the right is far too clean. Car wasn't consuming coolant?

It probably was. Drew only ran this build with these heads for a short period, the car began to overheat one day, so he pulled over and let it cool off, drove home and ordered up a new built engine. So yes, it probably was leaking coolant across the HG but he caught the problem quick enough to prevent any lasting marks that a long term leakage would leave evidence of.

The orange stuff looks like what Torco Accelerator does. I'm not sure if Drew was running any octane booster. He'll probably answer that question shortly.

The cylinder on the left looks almost normal except for that orange shit, was there any high octane fuel used?

 

The cylinder on the right is far too clean. Car wasnt consuming coolant?

You were right AMileHighLGT!

I went to do some cleanup today and re-inspect the extra clean cylinder. It's cracked.

I'll be trashing these case halves. I guess I need two OEM shortblocks now! I'll probably sell the forged Pistons/Rods and Crank if they look OK. And I'll re-use the ARP studs on the builds.

FYI, from the ARP website:

Are ARP bolts and studs re-usable?

Yes. As long as the fasteners have been installed and torqued correctly, and show no visible signs of damage, they can be re-used. If they show any signs of thread galling or corrosion, they should be replaced. In the case of rod bolts, if any of them have taken a permanent set and have stretched by .001” or longer, you should replace them immediately. See page 29 in the catalog for more detailed information on this critical measurement.