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Why does new TMIC improve power?


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Why does a new/aftermarket TMIC improve power. My local tuner is adamant that it is necessary on my 2.5 stage build. I know what they do, I just don't understand why that apparently more efficient air cooling = more HP when a bigger intake, i.e. more air in to start with does not. Why is that?

 

BTW - whats the difference between a 2.5 & 3 stage build?

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Mostly because the stock intercooler will break apart at the end tanks at anything much above 18 psi. The stock turbo can push that pressure plus a little bit more. Generally that means that if you are replacing the turbo, you want to go above 18 psi in addition to higher cfm. Therefore, you need a new intercooler that will hold together above that. It's not so much that the aftermarket intercooler makes so much additional hp, it's more that it's a supporting mod to allow your turbo to make more power, more reliably.

 

The stage definitions are always a little touchy/feely. In my opinion, the half designations are really about the supporting mods. You can go stage 2 with just a downpipe and a tune. But you can make bigger, safer, more reliable power with an up, a down, a tune, an intercooler, a bpv, and an EBCS. How do you differentiate between those two. Personally, I consider the turbo swap to be the demarcation line between stage 2 and 3. If you are on the stock turbo, you are stage 2. Then 2.5 is stage 2 plus a bunch of supporting mods. Turbo swap is stage 3. Then 3.5 is turbo swap plus supporting mods (fuel pump, injectors, tgvs, headers, intake?). Built motor at stage 4.

 

If you plan to stay on the stock turbo or to just do a mild turbo upgrade (16g, VF52, etc) or are on a tight budget, check out user BarManBean for an oem intercooler bulletproofing kit. If you plan to go big someday, might as well get the intercooler now. Enjoy!

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The intake flows enough air in stock form. The TMIC will improve power if it can help to supply colder (denser) air to the cylinders. If you can get denser air to the cylinders it means there is more oxygen to burn, and therefore you can also pump in more fuel. If you are burning more fuel in a more efficient scenario you will make more power.

 

The stock TMIC flows fine for stage 2 setups and likely small stage 3 setups as well. After that, flow seems to become an issue and increased cooling can also help out.

 

The advantage of the stock TMIC is the plastic endtanks--they tend to stay cooler and avoid heatsoak that bothers aftermarket units with metal endtanks. I saw this first hand doing autocross at boxerfest this past weekend.

 

For stage 2 you have 3 options: run the stock unit until it breaks and replace it, bullet proof your stock unit and call it good, or buy an aftermarket unit. IMO, the first option is dumb, don't wait for stuff to brake. Options 2 and 3 are fine, just pick one that fits your budget. You won't make much additional power at stage 2 with an aftermarket intercooler.

"Bullet-proof" your OEM TMIC! <<Buy your kit here>>

 

Not currently in stock :(

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If you end up interested in an aftermarket TMIC, I'm going to have an AVO unit for sale after I finish my swap this weekend and go to a FMIC. Figuring I'm going to ask $375 shipped for it.

 

Nice bit about the AVO unit is that it looks nice and stock...

 

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a89/ERLoft/20140506_161240_zpsqnbvwf9o.jpg

2013 S4 - Glacier White - DSG - B&O - Tech Package - Sports Diff - Napa - RS4 Grille - Stasis Exhaust - APR Intake - KW Variant 1 - Stern Control Arms - CR-15 - Stasis RSB - Moog Endlinks - PC Hyper Black Peelers - Deval Front Lip - ECS Rear Diffuser - Carbon Imports Ducktail - ECS Mirror Caps - Relak Paddle Extensions - Autostyle Floor Mats - LED Interior - V1 - Blackvue DR900s -

 

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

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My tuner recommend an upgraded intercooler when I upgraded to a vf52 and full 3 inch exhaust. I push 21 to 22 psi and it works great. I recently installed a thermal zero turbo blanket and it seems to reduce intake temps but I am planning to wrap the downpipe to further improve this.

 

I am considering going front mount so i can run a different compressor housing and also may want to do a radiator upgrade at the same time due to reduced airflow. But that also brings the temptation to go rotated. My 5th is my main concern in this decision.

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I like how you've bolted down your engine cover instead of the little plastic clip bits. .

 

You have to use bolts on the back for an AVO IC. You would still use the plastic clips on the front...if your AVO IC actually sat straight since most don't.

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Thanks everyone for your replies. My tuner recommended a new intercooler as well and thats why I was asking. I understand how they work and what they do... now I know WHY it should be upgraded with my mods - which I should have listed to make it clear for you:

BNR 16G turbo

Perrin intake

Invidia Catless Up pipe - wrapped

CNT Catted Down pipe - wrapped

IP&T -4 High flow oil supply line and return, with 10 micron inline oil filter with filters removed from banjo bolts

All new hoses - all of them!

Not yet installed: DW 850cc injectors & DW 65C Fuel pump

Need: New TMIC

 

Oddly my tuner recommended staying with the stock bpv, and BCS. He netted me 236/273 HP/torque on too small injectors and fuel pump so I am guessing he has room. Not sure what my final numbers will be, but I will stay a 'little' conservative because I don't want to have to buy a new shortblock and internals. Because that would just lead to a bigger turbo, more exhaust, etc, etc.... been down that road.... it never ends. ;)

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Stock BPV is good up to about 18-21psi, which should still be fine for a 16g on pump gas. If you wanted to do an E85 map as well, that would run much higher boost and an aftermarket BPV would be a good idea at that point. I went with the Turbosmart Kompact. Good price, gets the job done, is 100% recirculating, which the ECU likes.

2013 S4 - Glacier White - DSG - B&O - Tech Package - Sports Diff - Napa - RS4 Grille - Stasis Exhaust - APR Intake - KW Variant 1 - Stern Control Arms - CR-15 - Stasis RSB - Moog Endlinks - PC Hyper Black Peelers - Deval Front Lip - ECS Rear Diffuser - Carbon Imports Ducktail - ECS Mirror Caps - Relak Paddle Extensions - Autostyle Floor Mats - LED Interior - V1 - Blackvue DR900s -

 

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

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My current setup and I love it! Though it is only a conservative daily driving setup, and prep for my ultimate setup which i will hopefully have soon...ish...

BNR16g

IP&T oil line and filter

Custom air intake (similar to Cobb)

ERZ/CNT catless down pipe

Invidia catless up pipe

GMS catback exhaust

DW65c fuel pump

Grim speed EBCS

GFB 50/50 BOV that's adjustible (currently full recirc)

Racer x FMIC

Cobb AP v2

Cryotuned at 17.5 peak boost roughly 260-270whp because of stock injectors

Maybe this will give you a bit of an idea for yourself.

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