ashwinearl Posted November 13, 2019 Share Posted November 13, 2019 (edited) I thought it time to start a dedicated thread for my short block journey. This wasn't specifically planned out, but it just seems to be happening in real time. I've almost started test driving new model WRXs and thinking about throwing the towel in, but things started happening today that moved the needle to YNANSB. I love this thing and emotionally still want to throw my money at it. 2005 Legacy GT Wagon 5MT 160k miles This is my car. It has been having some smoking issues after idle and WOT, and has always burned oil, but it seems to have plenty of power. The smoke is blue and a lot of it. My mechanic has sort of looked at it in the past, but not really dug into it. I had my car into my local mechanic for an oscillating hum that I thought was a basic wheel bearing. It turned out to be a driveshaft. While there, the mechanic said he wanted to look into the smoking. We started with the looking for oil at downpipe suspecting the turbo. Next was PCV valve, which he doesn't feel is the issue. He feels it is valves. Another owner here had similar diagnosis but it turned out to be ringlands on cylinder 2 and 4. My feeling is that regardless of what it is, the labor to pull the heads to inspect the valves might has well be used towards full short block replacement at the age on the engine. I've been trying to plan how to approach this. They are good mechanics but not Subaru turbo specialists. So have been in an internal debate on who do use for what elements of this. They were replacing the PCV with new OEM just for good measure, and every hose touched was disintegrating. They also found a crack in the Uppipe at the weld. It's not driveable till we get at least those hoses that fell apart. And might as well change all the bad hoses while its slightly apart.... Then he suggested might as well remove the heads... I said yes without thinking it through totally... So, I guess this is happening. One of my plans was to drive it to a Subaru Specialist I've been talking with in Rochester (Dialed In Performance) and have them do everything. But now that it is apart and getting more in parts, I'm deciding how to approach this reliably while minimizing finger pointing with different vendors. 1) Plan A: -Ship heads to reputable Machine shop with Subaru experience. (Head games, Eastwood, or this Subaru shop) -Source EJ257 crate motor, requisite gaskets, other parts -Having Local mechanic put it back together 2)Plan B: -Ship heads to Subaru Specialty Shop -Source Short block from them -Have them do all machining and assembling of heads with short block -Pick it up or get it shipped back local -have local mechanic put it back together 3)Plan C -trailer it as is to Specialty Shop -Have them do it all end to end Edited November 29, 2019 by ashwinearl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Capacity Posted November 13, 2019 Share Posted November 13, 2019 (edited) I kind of like plan A. With ARP head studs. Talk to the local mechanic and see if he's ok with the car being at his shop for a couple to few weeks. Let Mark Eastwood know your time frame. PM me if you need my name to tell Mark. Do you need a clutch and have the FW resurfaced ? http://www.eastwoodsautomachine.com/importperformance.html talks about how o package the heads. FWIW, that's the yellow civic in my avatar before it became a race car. The red valve cover picture is the engine. Edited November 13, 2019 by Max Capacity 305,600miles 5/2012 ej257 short block, 8/2011 installed VF52 turbo, @20.8psi, 280whp, 300ftlbs. (SOLD). CHECK your oil, these cars use it. Engine Build - Click Here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ashwinearl Posted November 14, 2019 Author Share Posted November 14, 2019 (edited) I stopped by the mechanic's tonight. He had pulled the engine and it was on the hoist. I'm never sure if I'm a pain in their rear because of all the overanalyzing Subaru quirkiness. The stuff I ask them to do is project car nonsense compared to their daily focus of keeping regular folks on the road. But the head mechanic/owner is a gear head and into it. I suggested Plan C and B and he seemed genuinely hurt that I'd think that. He wants to finish what he'd started. Right now we are going to first pull the heads and see what they need. A clutch makes sense to do now. From research here, I am leaning towards: -07-09 LGT 5MT Single Mass Fly Wheel -Exedy Stage 1 or Spec 2+ I had emailed Eastwood earlier today referencing MaxCapacity's real name. I'll call them tomorrow. I know MaxCapacity has had good luck with the Spec 2+ Edited November 14, 2019 by ashwinearl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ashwinearl Posted November 14, 2019 Author Share Posted November 14, 2019 (edited) Shopping List Work in Progress: Real-time shopping list on google sheets Edited November 17, 2019 by ashwinearl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Capacity Posted November 14, 2019 Share Posted November 14, 2019 The OEM inlet will be easy for the mechanic. The Aisin timing belt kit is cheaper. 305,600miles 5/2012 ej257 short block, 8/2011 installed VF52 turbo, @20.8psi, 280whp, 300ftlbs. (SOLD). CHECK your oil, these cars use it. Engine Build - Click Here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ashwinearl Posted November 15, 2019 Author Share Posted November 15, 2019 I reached out to Eastwood's per MaxCapacity's recommendation about head machining. They say hi by the way. This was their reply: We recondition a lot of Subaru cylinder heads here and would be happy to do yours as well. The average cost to recondition a cylinder head is $250.00.....This includes cleaning, pressure testing, 3-angle valve job, cbn resurfacing and reassembly. We charge $64.00 per head to adjust the solid shim type valve clearances. If your heads needed valve guides this could add up to $80.00 (intake & exhaust...+ cost of part) per cylinder head. You will be contacted about any expenses before we go ahead and do the work. Aside from needing anything else (ie., valves, etc.) your cost would be $315.00 per cylinder head without valve guides being replaced. There is also a $7.50 shop supply fee that is invoiced as well. Be certain to box your cylinder heads well and please provide us with your tracking number and let us know that they're on the way. You can arrange return shipping or we will be happy to ship the set back via UPS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Capacity Posted November 15, 2019 Share Posted November 15, 2019 Plan on replacing the exhaust valves, that should give you a total cost figure. these heads are hard on those valves. 305,600miles 5/2012 ej257 short block, 8/2011 installed VF52 turbo, @20.8psi, 280whp, 300ftlbs. (SOLD). CHECK your oil, these cars use it. Engine Build - Click Here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ashwinearl Posted November 17, 2019 Author Share Posted November 17, 2019 I'm working with my local shop to go through this process. I regret it sometimes when I think that a dedicated performance shop with an appointment would be a 1-2 week in/out. But in this approach, I am in an active role, thinking, researching, learning, and responsible for purchasing the parts, from the smallest thing to the big stuff. It's like I'm doing it myself, without the actual wrenching. Which in reality is best for me. Changing the oil and looking for boost leaks I can do. Getting off stuck rusty bolts, laying on my back with 2" of space to generate 50ft-lbs doesn't work well for me. I've been ordering parts and in replacement hose hell looking at the diagrams for some of the odd formed hoses of the PCV and others that are hardened and falling apart. Rolls of 1/8, 3/8, 5/32, 3/16, 1/4 tubing will get the rest. The current step is to get the heads off. We are pretty much decided on mailing them to Eastwood's. I'm resigned to, and want to do the full short block. The mechanic still wants to see how the block/pistons are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Capacity Posted November 17, 2019 Share Posted November 17, 2019 There is a theory that when you rebuild the heads and not the piston rings...the next issue to pop up later is the rings begin to not hold compression. It comes down to your love of the 15y/o car, what condition the rest of the car is in, how long you plan to drive the car... 305,600miles 5/2012 ej257 short block, 8/2011 installed VF52 turbo, @20.8psi, 280whp, 300ftlbs. (SOLD). CHECK your oil, these cars use it. Engine Build - Click Here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ashwinearl Posted November 26, 2019 Author Share Posted November 26, 2019 (edited) Heads are off. I've been ordering parts like crazy. Whoever said this ends up a nickle and dime death was right.....group N mounts, clutch parts, OEM hoses, various silicone hoses lengths, broken UP, gaskets, plastic timing belt cover pieces, oil pan, pickup.... if the block 'looks' good, does anyone ever just drop in OEM pistons/rings back in? vs going full shortblock? Edited November 29, 2019 by ashwinearl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Capacity Posted November 26, 2019 Share Posted November 26, 2019 If your doing the labor yourself and know what your doing, then yes, rebuild your block. Even my machine shop buddy told me it was cheaper for me to buy OEM ej257 then pay him to rebuild my engine. There's a lot more to it then just dropping in pistons and rings... 305,600miles 5/2012 ej257 short block, 8/2011 installed VF52 turbo, @20.8psi, 280whp, 300ftlbs. (SOLD). CHECK your oil, these cars use it. Engine Build - Click Here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ashwinearl Posted November 29, 2019 Author Share Posted November 29, 2019 (edited) I am almost done packaging the heads to ship off to Eastwoods Auto Machine. I put them into a garbage bag first, then wrapped with heavy duty cardboard and placed in one box surrounded by packaging material. That box when into a bigger box with more packaging material. Both boxes wrapped with duct tape, labels on both boxes and on the heads directly. I hope it is overkill. I keep hearing horror stories of people's heads getting dropped, or boxes coming open and one head floating in the wind with at a shipping station with no info on it. I've been buying parts, a lot. Only a few have been upgrades or luxuries. Most everything else is just stuff that needs to be fixed or things that are easier to do now while the engine is out. I am not even to a new short block decision yet, and the parts total alone is at $4k. Not including any labor yet, or the machine shop costs. Luxuries and the "might as well" things include: JMP VF52 (VF40 has suspect hot side oil seal) new tune - when it is put together Grimmspeed Uppipe, current one is cracked Exedy Stage 1 Clutch kit, OEM single mass flywheel, TSK3 (clutch is worn) group N engine and transmission mounts Killer B Oilpick up. I may go for that Killer B full pan/baffle/pickup kit ARP engine studs My hoses are hardened, oil pan, and oil cooler hardline rusted, timing plastics cracked... Hose (PCV) 99071AC020 Vacuum Hose 99071AC320 Vacuum Hose 99071AC670 Vacuum Hose 807403542 hose 99071AC720 brake booster to manifold 11861AA030 Drivers side valve cover breather to PCV pipe 99071AC240 Passenger side valve cover breather to PCV pipe 99071AC010 Drivers side valve cover breather. 99071AC230 hose 99071AC220 (1/8) SILICONE VACUUM HOSE VB-012 Black (3/8) SILICONE VACUUM HOSE VB-038 Black Turbo oil return hose 807515712 PIPE-OIL COOLER 21328AA011 COVER-BELT,FRONT 13570AA045 COVER-BELT NO.1,RIGHT 13572AA092 COVER-BELT NO.2,RIGHT 13573AA131 COVER-BELT NO.1,LEFT 13574AA094 COVER-BELT NO.2,LEFT 13575AA130 Cylinder head Half Moon camshaft plug 11051AA070 turbo inlet 14459AA340 OEM Gasket and Seal kit 10105AA720 OEM 10mm oil pump/bolts/seal/crank seal - Amazon packaged deal Spark Plugs NGK 4212 I still need to order a timing belt kit, make decision on the oil pan/pickup parts. At that point, the only thing left is the full new shortblock. After spending this much, what is another $1800 on the new SB? Is there a line to be drawn when emotions are driving the bus? Edited November 29, 2019 by ashwinearl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ashwinearl Posted December 2, 2019 Author Share Posted December 2, 2019 Heads made it to Eastwoods via FedEx. They thanked me for packaging them well. I went overboard. Now deciding on which oil pan/pickup package, whether to get a specific ancillary hose replacement set (SAMCO for WRX or ebay one for LGT/Liberty, and whether to go new shortblock or just put the refreshed heads back on existing block. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Capacity Posted December 2, 2019 Share Posted December 2, 2019 I'll have to make a stop by Eastwoods and say Hi and Happy Holidays. 305,600miles 5/2012 ej257 short block, 8/2011 installed VF52 turbo, @20.8psi, 280whp, 300ftlbs. (SOLD). CHECK your oil, these cars use it. Engine Build - Click Here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ashwinearl Posted December 2, 2019 Author Share Posted December 2, 2019 Mr. Eastwood called me today. He said they did an initial clean on them and cursory inspection. They look like good rebuildable heads and that exhaust guides will need replacement. They are taking them apart now and will let me know any more requirements. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Capacity Posted December 4, 2019 Share Posted December 4, 2019 Your heads are done. I stopped by after work today. Mark said you did a great job packing them. His brother Mike is who you talked to on the phone. They're dad Olie still works with them. He was there also, we talked about old times growing up in Somers. Olie went to school with my oldest sister. 305,600miles 5/2012 ej257 short block, 8/2011 installed VF52 turbo, @20.8psi, 280whp, 300ftlbs. (SOLD). CHECK your oil, these cars use it. Engine Build - Click Here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ashwinearl Posted December 7, 2019 Author Share Posted December 7, 2019 My heads are on their way back from Eastwoods Auto Machine Within a day of them receiving the package, they performed an initial assessment. They indicated they were in good shape and considered rebuild able. On first inspection, the exhaust valve guides on both heads needed replacement. I gave my authorization to proceed. If anything else came up major they would call. It took about a week from them receiving them for completion. I missed the Friday pickup, so they will be on their way Monday. The total cost was $772.48 This includes general recondition of 2 heads, new exhaust valve guides, adjust valve clearance, materials supplies, shipping. In the meantime I have been ordering everything under the sun, with the exception of the short block. I am almost crossing that threshold, as I don't want to have go through this again if a ringland goes in 30k. For all those planning on this, I was not prepared for all the small, and big, things that were either 1) broken and need to be fixed, and 2) 'Might as well' do it now while the engine is out. In typical fashion, I'd research and agonize over a purchase only in the end to say f** it and just get it. "Luxuries" over the basics include up pipe, turbo, clutch, new hoses (lots and $$), ARP engine studs, new e-tune, oil pan, windage tray... Uppipe with Gaskets $220.00 Downpipe/Turbo gasket 17.00 Exedy OEM Single Mass Flywheel $138.71 Exedy Stage 1 Clutch kit $523.43 EXE-15804 Tranquil TSK3 $175.00 Single Mass Flywheel Bolts $1.75 8 bolts ARP EJ25 DOHC Studs $255.00 ARP-260-4701 Engine Mounts x2 $121.50 Group N Transmission Mount $74.12 Group N Hose (PCV) $31.20 99071AC020 Vacuum Hose $5.73 99071AC320 Vacuum Hose $3.35 99071AC670 Vacuum Hose $1.41 807403542 hose $6.45 99071AC720 brake booster to manifold $20.66 11861AA030 breather to PCV pipe $5.73 99071AC240 valve cover breather to PCV pipe $7.66 99071AC010 Drivers side valve cover breather. $8.36 99071AC230 hose $6.39 99071AC220 25' 0.1250"SILICONE VACUUM HOSE $17.00 VB-012 Black 25' 0.3750" SILICONE VACUUM HOSE $58.50 VB-038 Black Turbo oil return hose $8.68 807515712 PIPE-OIL COOLER $26.95 21328AA011 COVER-BELT,FRONT $28.69 13570AA045 COVER-BELT NO.1,RIGHT $19.96 13572AA092 COVER-BELT NO.2,RIGHT $25.75 13573AA131 COVER-BELT NO.1,LEFT $21.40 13574AA094 COVER-BELT NO.2,LEFT $21.40 13575AA130 Cylinder head Half Moon $23.64 11051AA070 turbo inlet $91.46 14459AA340 OEM Gasket and Seal kit $274.66 10105AA720 "OEM 10mm oil pump combo $154.95 15010AA300 Oil Pump Bolt 800706500x7 Oil Pump Seal 10991AA000 X1 Crank Seal" 806733030 X1" Spark Plugs $51.36 "NGK 4212 JMP Modified VF52 $800.00 Timing Belt Kit $275.00 Aisin TKF-004 Thermostat $24.17 21210AA030 2006 Oil pan $114.97 11109AA151 2006 Dipstick $31.00 11140AA150 "Killer B oil pickup Killer B windage tray" $257.00 EJ25 Autobahn88 hose/clamp kit $390.41 Estimates on labor services still to come Machine Shop $772 Cryotune (if I go new block) break-in tune $180 Cryotune stage 3 stock fuel $315 Mechanic labor ??? placeholder $1500 if new short block, Most likely 2018 STi Type R/A $1800+ shipping estimate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gkinslow Posted December 13, 2019 Share Posted December 13, 2019 Your thoughts that a Subaru performance shop would be in and out in 1-2 weeks has not been my experience. It sounds like you ended up in a good place that is allowing you to participate in the process and that is rare. Hopefully it all turns out exactly as you intended. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ashwinearl Posted December 13, 2019 Author Share Posted December 13, 2019 (edited) Your thoughts that a Subaru performance shop would be in and out in 1-2 weeks has not been my experience. It sounds like you ended up in a good place that is allowing you to participate in the process and that is rare. Hopefully it all turns out exactly as you intended. I have been going back and forth on this in my mind a lot. I am an integral part of the process and in charge of researching and making decision on purchase of the parts. I've learned quite a bit about how to navigate the parts diagrams, the ins/outs of oil pans and windage trays, restrictor pill sizes for VF52s, and the differences in EJ motors. Where I worry myself, is they might not know all the quirky issues of turbo Subaru's that I armchair mechanic take notes on and I'd hope a dedicated performance shop would know, like using ARP engine studs, and using Torx T50+ and not Torx T50 on flywheel bolts. It's sort of a side project at their shop and they are excited when I bring in new performance parts like a JMP VF52 and Killer B oil pickup. But if I have a barometric pressure sensor issue we'll be in trouble. I was clueless of the "might as well" parts costs exploding. Might as well do the clutch while it is out, might as well get the full silicone hose kit replacement, might as well replace the timing plastics, might as well replace the hardened vacuum line hoses, the turbo might be suspect, might as well get that VF52 I've always wanted (oh need a tune too..), oil pan is rusted, might as well replace the pickup while in there, Up pipe is broken at the weld, might as well get the Group N engine/transmission mounts, We are not going to do the full short block to keep costs down. But I am worried about having to go through this again in 30k. Heads are back from Eastwoods, all the parts I've ordered are in. So we'll see how fast they progress. The hose replacement is going to be tedious. Edited December 13, 2019 by ashwinearl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gkinslow Posted December 13, 2019 Share Posted December 13, 2019 In my experience the performance shops will take the easiest route possible to get your build finished. They'll also be around $135/hr in shop labor. I would have done the SB in this case but I can certainly understand trying to get a handle on the cost. The "while I'm in here" costs add up very quickly, as you've found out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NORULZleggy Posted December 16, 2019 Share Posted December 16, 2019 I see your doing the same thing I am. I am my own vendor so my parts are dirt cheap, and I have the hookup at subie dealer and get heavy discount, and I also have every part under the sun including full gasket kit. I plan on keeping this car for sure unless some on offers me a crazy price for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ashwinearl Posted July 10, 2020 Author Share Posted July 10, 2020 (edited) You know, I realized I had not updated this thread sorry. It had taken awhile to come together. After picking it up, there was the requisite leaks, and blowing hoses off. I had my main hose off the back of the manifold that goes to the TMIC pop off. That one scared the heck out of me. Cryotune was great to work with. He was very patient and answered my dumb questions. It has been very fun to drive. The group N engine and transmission mounts combined with the stage 1 clutch have added some vibration and a very nice growl. The JMP VF 52 is to die for. I love it. I did have an odd CEL P0442 Evap leak. Ironically the week I was going in for inspection. I reset the ECU and got 100 miles in when I took it in. They did find a leak at a plastic T behind the alternator-see picture I've also had an rough idle after start up and clutching in. I think I have always had it and the tuner suggested looking in the Blow off valve. The stumble at 2000-2500k is still there and wish I had replaced the stock set up with an STI one. Similarly, wish I had done the TGV deletes. I haven't driven it since they found that leak. In hindsight, I would say I am happy. The amount of money I spent does seem much higher than others and I didn't do the whole shortblock, just the heads. I didn't think I went really overboard in any of the parts except custom hoses. They aren't cheap ones, but not extravagant. The clutch, flywheel and exotic hose replacement pieces added up. Key mistakes were, we never really did a proper compression test prior to him getting into the heads, so don't know for sure the state of the stock engine other than it "looked pretty good" after taking the heads off. It took a long time, and sometimes wish I had just waited longer and spent more and just go the whole short block. I didn't end up doing much to the fueling other than an aftermarket pump I have had for awhile. Next big thing will be injectors, fuel pressure regulator and TGV delete, exhaust. So I hope I can get another few years out of the wagon. She is beaut. It still has rattles, a vibrating hum that we can't track down yet, and all the other common ailments of this gen. The money is under the bridge now and I just want more, repaint, floor mats, JDM tail lights, exhaust. Edited July 10, 2020 by ashwinearl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ViscousSquirrel Posted July 25, 2020 Share Posted July 25, 2020 So I’m about to undertake this same journey and I started a very incomplete spreadsheet and it’s not going anywhere good.... what are the odds I could take a peek at your spreadsheet before I go hog wild on the “might as well while I’m here” Parts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Capacity Posted July 25, 2020 Share Posted July 25, 2020 For the stumble, remove that hose from the #4 intake runner and plug that port. Now T that hose into the hose coming off the blow off valve. Reset the ECU, that should help a lot in removing that stumble. I have done that on both my cars. There are pictures somewhere on here. 305,600miles 5/2012 ej257 short block, 8/2011 installed VF52 turbo, @20.8psi, 280whp, 300ftlbs. (SOLD). CHECK your oil, these cars use it. Engine Build - Click Here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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