Losing Coolant- I hope not Head Gasket!

Hi again to everyone here,

 

After the vibrating issue that now is completely fixed I now have found another problem- I'm losing Coolant-, around 250ml per 100km- so quite alot!

 

I can't see any obvious leaks, I do see the bottom big radiator hose very dry and brittle with cracking starting, although it doesn't look like it has been breached yet. The radiator cap does seem a little too easy to screw on/off, and it doesn't feel like a very tight fit, but I can't see or hear any gas or water coming out by this route.

 

There is no engine overheating that I have experienced so far and no white smoke except for just a little bit on start-up on cold mornings, which I didn't think as anything unusual.

 

I'm guessing that if it was the radiator cap it would be fairly obvious, right?

 

I'm worried it could be the dreaded head gasket, I can't see any symptoms such as oil turning milky or bubbles in reservoir tank, but I have also read that these problems can start subtly.

My last coolant problem took a couple weeks to find. It turned out to be leaking around the shaft of the water pump. Then the timing covers would carry the liquid over near the oil filter before it dripped on the ground. It would only drip for a little while after shutdown. I finally had to just lay under there after a shutdown until it dripped.

 

But mine is a 2.2 SOHC, so the heads are somewhat less likely to leak.

There is no residue at all around the radiator cap, so guessing that is not the problem, looks like I will give it a good run and then spend some time underneath the car looking to see if I can find anything there. I have marked the level on the reservoir so I should be able to see exactly how much is being lost. Still haven't noticed any white smoke, bubbles in coolant or emulsifying of oil.

 

Hopefully I'm just being paranoid, but after all the reading I have done on EJ25's I know blown head gaskets can be hard to diagnose without clear signs until the situation is critical.

You're ahead of the game because you are aware of coolant loss and looking for it. Most people ignore it until it starts misfiring and everything is warped and burned. There are a number of small coolant hoses that feed the heater, and the throttle body that could leak. Probably not the heater core or you would smell it and probably not the cast crossover pipe. Could also be the radiator cap letting too much too hot into the overflow tank and spilling from the vent. Something will turn up.

Hi again Doublechaz, I want to thank you again for your time and patience with me.

 

Today I spent a couple of hours trying to find the problem, and it turns out (hopefully) that this whole coolant leak thing might have just been a big case of paranoia on my part.

 

It looks like you are completely right! The "leak" is the coolant being vented from the little vent hole in the expansion tank. I am not sure at this stage if it is a problem with the radiator cap, because I think that I have been vastly over-filling it. After looking carefully I can now see the "F" mark on the expansion tank (I presume that is F for FULL), and it really surprised me that the F mark is so low down! I don't think I have ever seen an expansion tank with the F so low down. Just out of interest is it normal for the expansion tank level to change so much from when the engine is cold to hot and vice versa?

 

If the "problem" is not really a problem and in fact just my own stupidity I will take that as a good result!

 

The big radiator hose will need replacing some time soon as it looks in bad shape, but for now it seems like it is intact.

I don't recall where the lines are on the expansion tank. Seems like they are usually about 1/3 from the bottom for full cold and 2/3 from the bottom for full hot. anyway, it is a pretty big difference between the two, and there is usually a deal of space above full hot for further expansion. Overfilling is a pretty common thing in the world so don't feel bad if that turns out to be what's going on. As far as I know we are all born car morons. Sadly most people never make an effort to learn anything about how they work, or even that they can have a problem at all. You are way ahead of the norm by having an interest in how to care for and feed your car.

 

Best for level checking is to check it cold so there is no danger of a severe scalding burn. Check the reservoir for full cold. Take off the radiator cap and check that it is full, no more room for coolant. Those two things checking out and you are good. Only other thing is to make sure the radiator cap is fully and correctly back in place or it will spew.

Before you go any further trying to guess where the coolant leak may or may not be, be smart and spend $20 on a dye kit. You put it in the radiator when you top off, drive for a bit and use a black light to find the leak. Diagnosed a failing head gasket on my Forester in under an hour. Makes no sense to guess when the tools are easily accessible.

 

If you want just one bottle: https://amzn.to/2oeUZq1

A whole kit: https://amzn.to/2MQLcUY

Blacklight: https://amzn.to/2Pbub5b

 

If it is an internal head gasket leak and it's severe enough, your tail pipe will be coated in UV dye and will glow bright green under the blacklight.

Im not sure if you could rent this tool for free from a parts store where you live

 

 

but you need a "cooling system pressure tester"

 

Basically you attach it to the radiator fill area and use a hand pump to push 16 - 20lbs in the system. you really only need to put the radiator cap pressure as that is all the system should ever see.

 

then you wait and monitor how many psi has drained off in 10 minutes, 30 minutes etc. This will also cause coolant to leak at the same rate it would on a hot moving engine. You can literally leave this tool on overnight and a small hard to find leak would drip onto the ground.

 

you could check your oil level before leaving it for the night. if it rises the coolant is likely getting into the crank case.

 

if after removing the tool and starting the car you get a big puff of white smoke its getting into the cylinder.

 

That would help you distinguish a head gasket leak if no leaks occur onto the ground.

 

 

Also if your measuring the coolant in the plastic overflow bottle it is not air tight and will evaporate over time. normal for that level to go down over time. if your rad is low when you check it that's an legitimate issue

Excellent advice! Where I am 'renting' the tool means you buy it, use it, and return it for full refund. That is the actual policy of the parts stores. That way if you fail to return the rental the store isn't out any money. Only down side to the user is they charge you the money instantly, but it takes two or three days for them to put it back.

Good advice,

 

After some more driving and more checking, it looks like I am only losing a minimal amount of coolant, the level in the expansion tank was about 1cm under the Full mark last time I checked, but the radiator needed topping up just a little bit.

 

I will need to get the O2 sensors done asap, I have been clocking the mileage and I am only getting around 210 miles to a full tank while driving conservatively. I am guessing that I should be getting 300 minimum

More good news, I ran a bottle of injector cleaner in the tank and now I am getting aprox 300miles to a tank, so it looks like i am doing well with my mpg, I am driving like an old man though as I have become very fond of this car so I want to look after it as best as I can.

Update,

 

The car went in for its annual test, it has failed on brake balancing and also visual SMOKE FROM THE EXHAUST (they don't do emmisions testing until the smoke has been resolved) so i guess that means that maybe there is an issue with the head gasket???

 

Also as bad luck comes in 3's I have developed quite a large coolant leak on the way back from the test centre.

 

It is at the back of the engine at the top under the air intake pipe, i phoned tge mechanic and he said that all tge exhaust manifold will have to be taken off to check it out and see exactly what the problem is.

 

Feeling pretty depressed with this car at the moment, I think its a great car, but it seems that i like the car more than the car likes me at the moment.

I tried to upload a photo of where tge leak is but i got "upload failed" its difficult to see exactly where its coming from, but there is like a bung type thing on the back top of the engine under what looks like a big air pipe, this morning i could see drops dripping down onto this bung area, so it must be coming from one of the pipes or something above that. Any ideas?

The location of the leak is directly below what i assume to be a small plastic sensor box with connector just before the air intake enters into the engine block

There are small coolant hoses that go to the throttle body. That is a fairly likely place to leak on cars our age because probably no one has ever replaced them. They are kinda hard to get at. I replaced all mine about two years ago while I had the intake off. There are also the heater hoses near where you are talking about. They are much easier to replace.

Thanks Doublechaz, the leak is now fixed, it was one of those little hoses (difficult to get to), the mechanic changed both because if one had a leak the other might be ready to go as well. Leaves my pocket 100 dollars lighter, was this an ok price for that job?

 

Now I still have to sort the smoke issue, the mechanic says a "NO SMOKE" additive can be put in the oil to stop it from smoking so much and this often works to get cars through their annual test, but im guessing IF this is head gasket problems putting additive in oil wont work.

 

Im starting to receive some temper tantrums from my wife over this car, so im hoping its going to work out ok. If its not going to be a cheap fix im going to have a headache.

 

Just to add, the small water pipe that was causing the leak (it had a visual small split where it the clip goes)looked like it was in such a bad state it looked like it was almost blocked up, the other little pipe looked ok and completely clear.

I haven't been to a "professional" mechanic in more than 20 years. I think that is a pretty darn good price for those hoses given how anoying they are to get to and what has happened to prices over the years. And yes, if you are in there certainly replace both so you don't have to do the job again right away.

 

It's hard to talk about the smoke over the net. If it is really oil smoke a no smoke additive may very well do it, but it depends on how oil is getting in there to burn. If it is steam from coolant burning from a head gasket only a head job will fix it.

 

I'm pretty sure the small tube you are talking about is the one that goes to the throttle body. I'm sure you will be fine with it plugged. I have mine bypassed, so the heat into the throttle body is clearly not needed (in AZ). If you were talking about a heater pipe, then that would weaken your passenger heat.

The Mechanic seems to think that its worn rings causing the smoke and not a head gasket, we will have to see.

 

After revising the oil type that was put in on the recent oil change the mechanic said that in retrospect if the smoke had drawn his attention he would have put a thicker oil type in.

 

Anyway we will have to see. Hopefully I will get time tomorrow to see the mechanic again and hopefully start to get this sorted. He seems pretty confident that the brake issue will be an easy fix. So fingers crossed

Update-

 

I have been too busy with work to get the no smoke additive and go for the re-test.

 

However it is too early to say for certain, but I think that I am not losing any coolant anymore. I have not done many miles since those little hoses were replaced, but it does seem like for the first time since I bought this car that I am not losing any coolant at all!

 

However the lead to the left front spark plug has popped off a couple more times, this time I can tell instantly from how the car is running that it has popped out so I can pull over straight away and pop it back on. It is an extremely loose fit, and it only kind of loosely pops in, so I was wondering if there is any way i can easily tighten the fit to stop it popping off so easy?

 

Another thing is that when I picked the car up i don't remember there being any noticeable smoke out of the exhaust at all, maybe this has come after the oil change, and the new oil is not thick enough to prevent smoking of a 21 year old car???

 

I guess we will see, my mechanic says that the additive thickens the oil, and that an oil change (after the car passes emmisions) after the additive is recommended, but many people don't bother.

What are you running in it? Mine would use a small fraction of a quart over an oil change if I ran 10-30, but would not lose it if I ran 10-40, so I did. You could be in the same boat.

Im not exactly sure what oil was put in it, unfortunately they didn't write it on the next service reminder thing, another day of driving around town and still no coolant loss, also checked oil level and its fine, as is the transmission fluid level, plus the other little dipstick level that I have no idea what the fluid is for, well anyway coolant level not dropping and all 3 dipsticks all reading full as they should be, so that is comforting to know.

Good news. Is the third one steering fluid up front, or perhaps front diff on the auto trans?

First one - engine oil - good level and no emulsion present

Second one - clean pink fluid and full- guessing this is transmission fluid?

The third one is kind of hidden behind the engine, full and clean- clear looking oil - guessing this is the front diff oil?

If it is a manual trans the third is both trans and front diff.

 

The power steering takes Dexron ATF fluid, so color won't tell. If it is on a little can on the top passenger side of the engine it is steering. I don't know where the auto trans stick is since I have a manual, but it would be behind the engine and lower down.

However the lead to the left front spark plug has popped off a couple more times, this time I can tell instantly from how the car is running that it has popped out so I can pull over straight away and pop it back on. It is an extremely loose fit, and it only kind of loosely pops in, so I was wondering if there is any way i can easily tighten the fit to stop it popping off so easy?

 

which side is it popping of of? if spark plug side, get some needle nose pliers and pinch the tabs a bit closer together. if on coil side, depends on whether you have the innie or outie coil but they can both be tightened to fit the points better. and the boot, use a pick tool to pull the side while putting it on so it doesnt trap air and push itself off. i adjusted mine to where they are tight enough to stay on regardless of trapped air.