If you HAD to replace your wagon today...

Hey guys, I haven’t spent much time here lately, but I wanted to check in and say hi again, and ask a bit of an odd question. (and if this has been asked before my apologies and would greatly appreciate a link to said thread )

Quick background: I’ve owned my Canadian-spec 2006 LGT Wagon 5mt Ltd since June 2009. It’s been the perfect vehicle and I’ve loved it as my daily-and-only driver since then. I live in Vancouver and I don’t commute for work that much these days so the car is mostly my roadtrip and ski- / surf-mobile. It’s at about 110k miles and I am, begrudgingly, starting to consider its replacement.

As we all know there are very few - if any - cars that combine the performance, value, reliability, versatility, and all-weather capability of these LGT’s, but my question is, as our cars get up there in years/miles, what, if any, other cars have you considered as a potential replacement?

I'm looking for a sporty, reliable-ish, >180" length, non-German (because maintenance costs), AWD wagon. Right now I’m thinking used Volvo V60 wagon (with the proven 5- or 6-cyl motors), the new Acura RDX (even though I dislike CUV’s), or possibly a base model Kia Stinger AWD. I know the Forester XT may be the most logical, but I find the seats way too flat and unsupportive and the ride/handling way too CUV-like (indeed, maybe the RDX will be the same way, but fingers crossed it's better).

What other vehicles would you consider? Any feedback/thoughts most welcomed - and yeah, you can also just tell me that there IS no replacement, I should continue driving mine accordingly, and I should be banished for my insolence

Cheers, Dan

The new 2019 Volvo V60 looks absolutely stunning and has had some great reviews. 2018 Honda Accord Sport 2.0t with 6mt seems to be a great fun car also (no AWD though).

Thanks, yeah, the new V60 looks amazing. but I'd more likely go the used/cpo route. Then again it's so enticing a package, I may have to test drive one anyway when does arrive!

New Accord very impressive but, yeah, kinda want AWD for the slick PNW winter highways. I know I can get by with good tires on FWD, but Subaru awd has kinda ruined me at this point for anything but AWD.

CPO 328I Xdrive wagon, KIA Stinger AWD, Vulva S60 Wagon, Audi Allroad, that new Buick wagon thing Regal Tour X seems promising. That's a start. Be hard to replace the wagon. If I'm replacing mine I have been looking at CPO Panameras but they are not gearhead wrench friendly at all. Stupid fancy Germans.

Off topic but I once considered a Porsche 928. Beautiful car and in the 90s could still be had for a decent price in decent condition. Then I looked at maintenance costs and talked to a few owners. The water pumps needed to be replace every 30k miles or so. The pumps were weak and no one made better replacements (too small a market). Problem was not the part price, but the fact the engine had to be removed to replace the water pump. So a $500 part replacement became a $3k job. No thanks!

Fancy yet stupid German engineering. Oh, the manual transmission was crap; it felt like a bad truck tranny. No wonder everyone got them with autos.

Oh, and I replaced my LGT wagon with a 350Z

Thanks for all the feedback guys - much appreciated! (Responses below)

I was in the same boat. I had a 2003 Outback H6 VDC and thought there was something better out there. After looking at my options' date=' I ended up with a low mileage 2008 OBXT (MT). Getting that addressed the only two shortcomings of the previous outback - the transmission and the power. And I guess to an extent, replacement parts will be more abundant since the same engine and transmissions were used in way more cars than the 3.0H6 and the 4EAT with 1st gen VDC. End of the day, I couldn't be happier with my choice![/quote']

 

Congrats on finding a sweet OBXT/MT! As much as I have enjoyed this platform, though, I'm really looking for a newer platform, e.g. something maybe 2012 or newer.

 

CPO 328I Xdrive wagon, KIA Stinger AWD, Vulva S60 Wagon, Audi Allroad, that new Buick wagon thing Regal Tour X seems promising. That's a start. Be hard to replace the wagon. If I'm replacing mine I have been looking at CPO Panameras but they are not gearhead wrench friendly at all. Stupid fancy Germans.

 

The Buick is definitely intriguing (actually we don't et the TourX up here, only the Regal Sportback, but I would certainly consider that one). I'm sure it's likely dynamically not as good as the German stuff, but I would imagine the running costs would be quite a bit lower.

 

Ha, yeah, Panameras don't seem terribly DIY-friendly, but I admit I've considered them as well! Something like a 2011 or 2012 Panamera 4 V6. But darn if the resale on those babies is still pretty high! My impression, however, is that of all the Germans, the Panamera may be the most reliable/dependable, given how well-built they seem to be. But I'm sure running costs are sure to be up there, nevertheless. Anyway I may have to take one for a test drive, at least to see what I'm missing!

 

Off topic but I once considered a Porsche 928. Beautiful car and in the 90s could still be had for a decent price in decent condition. Then I looked at maintenance costs and talked to a few owners. The water pumps needed to be replace every 30k miles or so. The pumps were weak and no one made better replacements (too small a market). Problem was not the part price, but the fact the engine had to be removed to replace the water pump. So a $500 part replacement became a $3k job. No thanks!

 

Fancy yet stupid German engineering. Oh, the manual transmission was crap; it felt like a bad truck tranny. No wonder everyone got them with autos.

 

Oh, and I replaced my LGT wagon with a 350Z

 

Ha, that 350Z is a heckuva cool replacement! Not sure if the 350 would work for me at this point, but would certainly love one as a 2nd car.

 

Interesting about the 928. Beautiful cars, those. You don't see too many on the road, and I'm sure those running costs had something to do with it.

 

That's true' date=' but if you're looking at new or newer cars, isn't maintenance included? Not sure if that carries to a second owner though.[/quote']

 

I understand BMW does offer free maintenance for the first 4 years of a lease, yeah, not sure about a CPO purchase though?

 

For what it's worth, I love the 3-series wagon and Allroad, but new ones are a bit out of budget, used ones are nice but I'm not keen on the maintenance costs after the warranty runs out, and I don't love run-flat tires (BMW). That said, never say never, and if the right one of those came along, i might consider (can always swap out runflats, etc.)

I believe the Buick Regal is just a badge engineered Opel. So it is definitely very European.

I actually drove the previous gen Regal as a rental as well, also the 2.0T awd. I was pretty impressed. It felt like a budget A4 - in a good way.

Even though it's a "German" car, I also understand from the recent reviews that it's still a bit bigger and a bit less of a dynamic champ compared to the A4/3-series/C-class. The uplevel GS, however, with the N/A 3.6 does intrigue me, (especially that it runs on 87 ). Definitely worth a test, you're right. I would maybe consider a used one as it seems like one of the benefits of buying something American would be getting it lightly used and taking advantage of US cars' typically steeper depreciation.

At this point, I would just go German. There are a few (rare!) manual 3-series tourings to be had on the used market. For something newer, I would just skip the MT and go for an Allroad.

I would also consider a CX-5, Forester, Outback, etc, with a manual and slam it to the ground.

Stinger looks like a solid option, though with limited cargo space (compared to a real wagon).

I've been thinking about this a lot lately, not because I'm in the market, but because my wagon is such a rust bucket (thanks, Cleveland) that I'm not sure how many more years I have with it before the damage just becomes too expensive to fix. I would love another awd, manual, wagon, but there are just so few options in this category that also carry the uniqueness of the Legacy. Not to mention the fourth gen Legacy just has the best overall proportions on any subie, in my opinion.

Despite all that, I've really been considering a Chevy SS in the future. And I can always dream about a CTS-V or E63 AMG wagon. It would be bananas to own a TrackHawk, but maybe as a second vehicle and not a daily. Too bad they no longer make the S4 Avant. Maybe a Focus RS? Now that they fixed the hg issue. Every now and then I catch a glimpse of a Golf R and it doesn't look so boring.. but it still kinda does. Who knows, maybe the next gen STI will have a hatch again or they'll bring the Levorg over here (yeah right). I really like the Ford Flex as well and it's no slouch with the EcoBoost package. I like the option of the Regal TourX, but have heard the transmission is a dog. And I've always loved Volvo (even had a '99 V70 with a 5 speed), but only an auto and the 4cyl seems out of place is such a big car as the V90. Would definitely look at the last gen V60 polestar though.. My speed3 was fun but I couldn't stand the FWD. When it comes down to it, I guess I'm holding out for miraculously finding another 05 manual LGT wagon that someone has kept in a garage all these years. A man can dream.

Sorry for rambling on.. I think in circles about this on a daily basis without ever coming any closer to a solution haha

Hey guys, thank you again for all the feedback. As far as the other vehicles mentioned, I have considered most of them and glad to know I am on the right track with like-minded wagon/Subaru fans. If I am being honest, what I really should have titled the thread was, “I am going crazy, obsessing over every possible permutation of a replacement vehicle – have I missed any, and are any of you similarly obsessed/afflicted”

Further responses below:

At this point, I would just go German. There are a few (rare!) manual 3-series tourings to be had on the used market. For something newer, I would just skip the MT and go for an Allroad.

 

I would also consider a CX-5, Forester, Outback, etc, with a manual and slam it to the ground.

 

Stinger looks like a solid option, though with limited cargo space (compared to a real wagon).

To be honest as much as I have enjoyed having a manual (never owned an automatic), I’d be perfectly happy with a good and responsive A/T, if the other criteria are met. As a bonus it would also expedite the requirement of a second, MT sports car, haha.

Yup, really like the Allroad and the 3-series wagon. I may just have to bite the bullet and pay-to-play with Ze Germans. Philosophically, having been spoiled by a fairly reliable Subaru, it does irk me that even after potentially spending considerable $$ for the initial purchase of a used German car, I am expected to pay premium German maintenance costs. On the one hand, the choices are what they are now, and of course conventional wisdom tells us “well, you’ve gotta pay to play”.

On the other hand, with new offerings like the Stinger and Regal, perhaps we don't have to pay THAT much anymore.

Anyway, still all over the place. I've gotta start test driving stuff and getting real-world pricing to see what really appeals.

And yeah, I’ve also considered the idea of getting a used sporty SUV and lowering it. Do you know anyone who has done this, and are they happy with the results? It won’t be quite the same as a proper wagon I imagine, but maybe close enough. There’s someone in my neighborhood who has a previous generation Audi SQ5 on some sort of lowering kit – not sure if full coilovers or just springs – and it does look awesome, something like 2 inches lower than stock. Need to track down the guy and ask him.

BTW Stinger cargo space for me would be fine, I think – skis are the main thing I’d be transporting so for me it’s more the length of the cargo area (seats folded) than the height or clearance, though wagon always beats hatch.

I've been thinking about this a lot lately, not because I'm in the market, but because my wagon is such a rust bucket (thanks, Cleveland) that I'm not sure how many more years I have with it before the damage just becomes too expensive to fix. I would love another awd, manual, wagon, but there are just so few options in this category that also carry the uniqueness of the Legacy. Not to mention the fourth gen Legacy just has the best overall proportions on any subie, in my opinion.

 

Despite all that, I've really been considering a Chevy SS in the future. And I can always dream about a CTS-V or E63 AMG wagon. It would be bananas to own a TrackHawk, but maybe as a second vehicle and not a daily. Too bad they no longer make the S4 Avant. Maybe a Focus RS? Now that they fixed the hg issue. Every now and then I catch a glimpse of a Golf R and it doesn't look so boring.. but it still kinda does. Who knows, maybe the next gen STI will have a hatch again or they'll bring the Levorg over here (yeah right). I really like the Ford Flex as well and it's no slouch with the EcoBoost package. I like the option of the Regal TourX, but have heard the transmission is a dog. And I've always loved Volvo (even had a '99 V70 with a 5 speed), but only an auto and the 4cyl seems out of place is such a big car as the V90. Would definitely look at the last gen V60 polestar though.. My speed3 was fun but I couldn't stand the FWD. When it comes down to it, I guess I'm holding out for miraculously finding another 05 manual LGT wagon that someone has kept in a garage all these years. A man can dream.

 

Sorry for rambling on.. I think in circles about this on a daily basis without ever coming any closer to a solution haha

Web94, seems we have parallel thinking here. I have considered many of the cars you list as well. Love the Flex, but it seems too big/overkill for me (single guy). And I'm glad to know I’m not the only one suffering from a bit of analysis paralysis, haha, and if you’re “rambling,” I don’t even know what to describe what I’m doing!

The SS is a sweet piece, that’s for sure. I think I’ve only seen a handful on the road up here. Love all the new Volvo’s coming out but yeah, agree the new 4-cylinders' longevity is a big question mark. But man I’ve seen a few V90 CC’s milling about here, and they are GORGEOUS.

Re: the CTS and SS, yeah sometimes I think I could take a big, comfy, sporty-ish sedan w/fold-down seats, and the trunkspace might be good enough (could of course always just get a ski box). All I really need is a big footprint, lengthwise, and AWD.

If I’m feeling masochistic then something like a used Audi A6 with that sweet 3.0 S/C’d engine could be ticket. On the other hand, I do want to hold on to this next car for a good long while, and I'd love for it to be as close as possible to what I really want (e.g. hatch over a trunk). So, like you, no closer to a solution, it seems!

2010-2014 Lexus IS 350 AWD or Acrua TL same years.

I have no idea what I would buy new. Thats another process totally.

If your big item that you need to carry is skis' date=' you'd be able to get away with a longer sporty car that can fold down the rear seats (as you mentioned). I also have a G37 coupe, and with the rear seat folded, I can fit my snowboards, or electric bass guitar in a hard case. People fit bicycles in the back of their G37s with the wheels taken off. The thing is that all of these items can be packed flat and can fit in a slot, which is pretty much all you'll have with a car if you fold down the seats. But if that would work for you, you'd have much sportier options, and a lot of sporty cars come in AWD these days.[/quote']

 

Good point and food for thought, thanks! That G37 is a sweet car. The hatch thing is indeed something I will need to decide on how important it is. I mean, a sedan with fold-down seats is of course perfectly serviceable as a ski car. On the other hand, not to belabor the skiing thing, but with the hatch it's that much easier to put on boots/take them off, sitting under the cover of an open hatch vs. a trunk, especially if it's snowing hard in the parking lot. Really enjoy that with my Subaru. Crucially, also, under an open hatch is an ideal perch on which to enjoy post-ski adult beverages. Again, this is beyond frivolous stuff, haha, but if I'm using the car primarily as a ski-mobile, I gotta decide how frivolous it really is!

Skis. Ever heard of a roof rack?

Roof....rack? Yeah it sounds vaguely familiar - do you mean those things that expose your multiple pairs of $800 boards to road debris and city thievery?

Jokes aside, I spend a lot of [far too much, haha] money on skis, as a lot of people do around here, and obsess over their condition. Slapping them on a rack is doable, just far from ideal.

Meanwhile, a roof *box* - the good ones go for $1000 Cdn - is an option, but inside the car is better still.

You mean the enclosed roof racks? Buy them with real dollars and they are cheaper. I owned four pairs of skis when I was young since I raced. They all went on the roof and survived. My racing kart was towed on an open trailer, too. Again, survived!!! Prima donna.

Montreal must be a dangerous place! I would love to get mugged in French.

PS - I had a 1973 Honda Civic. Weighed 1500 lbs. I took two friends skiing in it and fit all our equipment inside when skis were long (mine were 205 cm). Ok, it was not optimal. One pair down the middle (made it hard to shift the manual trans). One pair each jammed between the outside of the front seats and the doors. Made it difficult to get out of the car at a stoplight when a lady tapped me from behind. She thought we were horribly injured since it took us a few minutes to get out of the car. The skis were in the way.

You mean the enclosed roof racks? Buy them with real dollars and they are cheaper. I owned four pairs of skis when I was young since I raced. They all went on the roof and survived. My racing kart was towed on an open trailer, too. Again, survived!!! Prima donna.

 

Montreal must be a dangerous place! I would love to get mugged in French.

 

PS - I had a 1973 Honda Civic. Weighed 1500 lbs. I took two friends skiing in it and fit all our equipment inside when skis were long (mine were 205 cm). Ok, it was not optimal. One pair down the middle (made it hard to shift the manual trans). One pair each jammed between the outside of the front seats and the doors. Made it difficult to get out of the car at a stoplight when a lady tapped me from behind. She thought we were horribly injured since it took us a few minutes to get out of the car. The skis were in the way.

That’s cool about your 1973 Honda. Uhh, congrats on your resourcefulness and resilience, I guess? Montreal is lovely and I don’t live there anymore. If you do get mugged by a French girl, that’s actually just foreplay for them, so don’t let your puritanical American sensibilities get the better of you and just relax and let it happen.

I live in Vancouver now (per my first post) which is mostly paradise except for the parts that aren’t. I'm one of those sh!tbird gentrifiers in a "transitioning" neighborhood. (Go ahead and google “Vancouver DTES” if you’re bored.) Anyway, at the risk of stating the obvious, in certain urban areas, it’s better to not have your fancy winter toys on display in an open rack.

Enclosed racks like the Yakima’s Lo Pro Carbonite 15, a.k.a. a “Roof Box”, are what I’d buy, and I’d want one new or nearly new, and $1k is what they cost up here. Cheers, Dan

Long ago I lived on Capital Hill in Washington, DC. An idiot neighbor kept a boom box in the back of his hatchback. Someone threw a rock through the hatch glass to get it. He got the car fixed, got a new boom box and left in the back of the hatch. Again someone threw a rock at the glass and snatched his new boombox. Idiot.

Don't leave valuables visible in a car at any time. Even a freaking cell phone.

You're probably too young to remember Hexcell skis from the 1970s. I had a pair of 225s for downhill. They were popular and frequently stolen as they were the hot new skis at the time. I spray painted them black so no one would know what they were when I left them in the ski racks (locked) outside the ski lodges.

Long ago I lived on Capital Hill in Washington, DC. An idiot neighbor kept a boom box in the back of his hatchback. Someone threw a rock through the hatch glass to get it. He got the car fixed, got a new boom box and left in the back of the hatch. Again someone threw a rock at the glass and snatched his new boombox. Idiot.

 

Don't leave valuables visible in a car at any time. Even a freaking cell phone.

 

You're probably too young to remember Hexcell skis from the 1970s. I had a pair of 225s for downhill. They were popular and frequently stolen as they were the hot new skis at the time. I spray painted them black so no one would know what they were when I left them in the ski racks (locked) outside the ski lodges.

Yikes, Boom Box Dude not very bright. In Montreal I had underground parking and a lovely ’05 BMW 330ci M-sport. I was always good about leaving the interior empty of even loose change, yet still had the windows smashed multiple times, go figure.

Never had that problem with the Subaru, knock on wood, but also keep everything covered up.

Yeah, never heard of Hexcells, but sounds like they were serious sticks – must have been fun. 225’s are big boy skis, that’s for sure. I think I maxed out at 198’s on straight skis when I was 16. Longest I’ve got now are a pair of 191 powder/crud busters – of course, they’ve got nearly twice the waist now as well, haha.