5EAT question - shift point using the paddles

I'm trying to understand if there is something to be concerned about as I've not owned a 5EAT prior to this 2008 that I just put on the road.

 

 

When "getting onto the highway" I noticed that, in order to prevent things from going crazy between shifts (rev limiter or a double upshift), I must hit the upshift paddle around 5k RPM. What happens next is the engine speed temporarily spikes to redline (or close to it) while the transmission reacts to my input and the shift is then completed.

 

My question is, is that considered normal for the 5EAT?

 

All other aspects of the transmission appear to function as intended, I just found it interesting the paddle had to be hit so early in the rev range.

 

Maybe I'm overthinking things...?

Sounds like downloading Freessm, ordering yourself an OBD cable and doing a reset is a good idea. This is of course counting on fluid being in good condition and at the correct level.

 

Sent from my moto z3 using Tapatalk

Thank you and understood.

 

I'd prefer to first understand whether this is normal behavior or not before doing anything else. Fluids are clean and correct.

 

I did some searching prior to posting and don't recall specifics regarding Freessm. Can I be pointed toward a thread or other information?

 

 

More info:

 

I was on a closed course after work today and paid closer attention to the events taking place. The engine speed continues to increase by roughly 800 RPM between flatfoot shifts. This is the detail that I want to understand more about.

What happens if you drive it in sport mode?

Does it do it in every gear? Not that I expect you to flat foot shift 4-5

When I hit the button my car shifts hard and fast, but I have the transgo shift kit installed.

It seems to be only when the paddle upshift is used that this slight over-rev condition exists. Not clear on what you mean by "Sport Mode". Do you mean, moving the shifter to the left and not using the paddles? Haven't tried that.

 

In auto mode the tach runs up to the redline and shifts just fine.

Not seeing this behavior when manual shifting. Mine has 218K and no shift kit on the valve body. May want to do a fluid flush and make sure your not spinning a bunch of clutch pack debris in your system. Refreshing AFT can be done with consecutive pan drops or there is a walk through of changing 8 or 9 quarts at once bypassing the hoses. Essentially pumping out old and dropping new in.

 

Just finished a pan drop and removed 4.5q by lifting the passenger side while the transmission was draining.

 

Filling presented a challenge due to the GS TMIC took over the small gap available to get to the dipstick. Used a garden spray bottle used for spraying week killer or what not to send the new fluid through the dipstick tube. Later I cut the hose length down. But made sure the hose going into the dipstick tube was not causing an airlock. This way you can measure what came out and place the new amount in the can for painless (mess free) refill. It's slow but painless.

Edited March 22, 2019 by kzr750r1

Checking in with some updates...

 

The issue is mostly related to the 2-3 shift under moderate to heavy accel. I also noticed a very slight shudder when letting off the gas at low speeds in 1st gear. There's otherwise no slipping or hunting just very slow shifts, especially the 2-3 shift.

 

After continued searching, I saw information regarding a reflash of the TCU, with a lot of emphasis on correcting the 2-3 shift. Is this where the Freessm comes into play or is this a visit to the dealer?

I'm leaning towards the valve body shifting slow. I'm at 85,xxx and just did a transmission service with a BG atf conditioner and it shifts the same as before. In my case 1st to second shifts painfully slow.

 

Subieguys.com

Checking in with some updates...

 

The issue is mostly related to the 2-3 shift under moderate to heavy accel. I also noticed a very slight shudder when letting off the gas at low speeds in 1st gear. There's otherwise no slipping or hunting just very slow shifts, especially the 2-3 shift.

 

After continued searching, I saw information regarding a reflash of the TCU, with a lot of emphasis on correcting the 2-3 shift. Is this where the Freessm comes into play or is this a visit to the dealer?

 

Yes, get yourself a Vag com cable, download Freessm and clear memory 2 while connected to the "transmission" tab in the program. It is very easy and after your first time will not take more than 3 minutes, plug to unplug. I have done this a few times. My car likes to get lazy at times with what I refer to as a slide/bang on the 2-3 shift and only that shift. Clearing the memory makes it good for a while so I guess I will just do it as needed. I don't like this transmission and very much wish my car were a manual at this point. I think the 5EAT ruins the car, my opinion only of course.

Just to be clear, the cable containing the 232BL chip is what I want?

The bang shift mentioned between 2nd and 3rd is likely a turbine speed sensor that is failing.

 

 

 

You can read about it here :

https://www.subaruoutback.org/forums/66-problems-maintenance/65386-5eat-4-5th-gear-dont-work-3.html#/topics/65386?page=7

This is the cable I bought....

 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/VAG-COM-KKL-409-1-OBD2-USB-Cable-Scanner-Scan-Tool-Audi-VW-SEAT-Volkswagen-Auto/291808374163?hash=item43f1226d93:g:dk0AAOSwGIBZubyk&frcectupt=true

 

 

I have done a fair bit of reading on that. Looks like the VB needs to come out to replace the sensor in my 2009? Would it set a code? I don't ever have any codes.

About 3 weeks after my stage 3 dyno tune I experienced what seemed like 5th gear slipping at about 6psi of boost while driving up a slight grade in D. I also had a hard 4-3 downshift. I called IPT to inquire about upgrades for the 5eat and discussed what I was experiencing. It was suggested to me to check for transmission codes as there may be codes present that didn’t throw a mil. I did this and there was nothing. It was also suggested that 5th gear most likely wasn’t slipping but 4th to 5th shift wasn’t engaging. As if it would go to shift but never actually make it to 5th even though my AP displayed 5th. This was most likely an electronic issue due to the tcu being confused by the changes to the ecu due to the tune. I brought this up to my tuning shop and they scanned with the snap on scanner and also found no trans codes. They “reset” the tcu via the snap on scan tool but that didn’t help. Shortly thereafter I bought the VAG-COM cable above and free ssm and was able to clear memory 2 as has been discussed in threads here. That worked. I got 5th gear back and a smooth 4-3 downshift. The upshifting is still long at times though which I hope will be resolved with the trans-go valve body upgrade that I’m planning to do soon. My guess is that the tcu is a learning module like the ecu and can learn bad behaviors depending on the information it gets from the ecu and your right foot.

Yeah the VB needs to come out if you want to replace that turbine speed sensor #2.

 

 

 

From the reading I've done, it appears that when the sensor gets really bad you get a TCU code. However mine was bad for years when it got hot but the code only appeared last month for the first time. Has not come back after clearing yet.

 

 

 

Seems like the sensor does not fail completely but degrades. Probably worth replacing if you're due for a transmission fluid change and can DIY.

Yeah the VB needs to come out if you want to replace that turbine speed sensor #2.

 

 

 

From the reading I've done, it appears that when the sensor gets really bad you get a TCU code. However mine was bad for years when it got hot but the code only appeared last month for the first time. Has not come back after clearing yet.

 

 

 

Seems like the sensor does not fail completely but degrades. Probably worth replacing if you're due for a transmission fluid change and can DIY.

 

Sounds like a good idea on the next fluid swap. The car only has 58k as of now and I just did 3 drain and fills on it after purchase around 55k. I will ride it out, maybe for the summer and see how things appear. I likely won't have many miles on this fluid but it can't hurt to change it, the filter behind the battery and this hall affect sensor. For the record my car is on a Cobb stage 1 tune with an axle back exhaust - otherwise stock and will remain that way for a long while. I am after longevity, not a racer.

 

Did you buy the OEM sensor or a generic and wire it?

 

OP, let us know if the reset helps your situation out at all. It almost seems like you and I are in the same boat.

Edited March 27, 2019 by whitexc

I'll try the cable and Freessm first then update this thread.

 

I came across a post that suggested there is a thread on this forum that has a specific set of steps to help with the TCU learning after a reset however I have not been able to locate that thread. Sounds to me like there is some sequence of manual shifts that take place in order to shorten the TCU learn time. Can anyone add to this information?

 

The way I read it all the learning is done in (D) drive.

I read that as, shift to D. Start at 10% throttle and paddle up across gears 1 through 4 when the shift indicator lights up then at 12.5% throttle, shift 4 to 5 when the shift indicator lights up.

 

Also, disconnecting the battery won't reset the TCU?

No, the battery does not reset the TCU.

 

Sent from my moto z3 using Tapatalk

 

Did you buy the OEM sensor or a generic and wire it?

 

 

I haven't done it yet myself, but when I do I'll try and get an oem one if I can find the part number in the vacation pics.

 

 

 

Otherwise I don't mind using a generic.

I read that as, shift to D. Start at 10% throttle and paddle up across gears 1 through 4 when the shift indicator lights up then at 12.5% throttle, shift 4 to 5 when the shift indicator lights up.

 

Also, disconnecting the battery won't reset the TCU?

 

 

 

Now that I read it again, I think you’re correct but I think what it’s saying is to shift when ssm indicates the correct throttle position. I used my AP for throttle position and would hold it as steady as possible at set throttle position and allow it to shift on its own. I may do this again this weekend but manually upshift to see if it feels any different after.

I seem to be having the same exact problem with my 5eat. Not a fan of this transmission. Very tempermental. It will hold shifts in high RPM's on an almost random basis, there's no correlation between trans temp, speed, etc. other than the 2-3rd shift, thats usually where it does it. But if I'm going around corners I go to manual mode and just do things that way. The only good part is being able to have it in D and shift around and have it return to normal shifting. Also, I had my transmission replaced at a less than stellar transmission shop after it went out and I don't know if they programmed my TCM again or put in the right year TCM to match the transmission. I guess thats another hurdle to go across. I'm getting FreeSSM and resetting it though, its worth a shot. Edited March 28, 2019 by scoped_legacy

Cross posting this link for training purposes.

 

Ordering the cable tonight. Will update again soon.

Great link but the freessm download link is dead in that post.

 

 

 

Can someone please post a good link for freessm?

I went here

 

Download button is about 1/2 way down the page on the right.