Another P0021, blue smoke...

2007 5spd

175k miles

No previous major issues

Stage 1 tune since 2010 or so

 

Overall showing its age, always burnt a bit of oil, a little rattle on cold starts (5 seconds tops) for past 6 or 7 years. Never removed the banjo bolt filters. Original turbo.

 

Drove with full power when code come on. No turbo noise. No smoke until I parked it for a week and started it up to move it to the garage.

 

Here is what I'm curious about....

Before the cel came on I Topped off the oil with Castrol 10-30 high mileage that I keep on hand for the old TJ. Next day I check and I'm above full on the dipstick by 1/16" os so. Weird, most not have got a clean reading at the time I topped off. Later that week the cel comes on with p0021. I had p0011 years ago and replaced the oil control valve on each side. Like I said, drove with full power, no noise at the time the cell came on.

 

How screwed am I? Are these motors really that sensitive to overfilljng the oil?

 

I'm going to tear into it for maintenance anyways and remove move the banjo filters, needs intake manifold gaskets, spark plugs, and I've had the air pump block off kick on the shelf for a few years (cels coded out already...) I figured on pulling the turbo to inspect too now.

 

What are the odds that the cold start smoke is from overfilling??? This has been a ridiculously reliable car, bought new.

 

:spin::spin:

Edited February 28, 2021 by imstillatwork

Not driving it until I figure it out...

P0021 is the drivers side OCV, pull it and make sure its clean and works well. I think there is a way to use a 9volt battery to make it move.

 

I always overfill my oil a little, its not an issues.

 

Oil smoke on cold start is the valve seals leaking.

Oil smoke on cold start is the valve seals leaking.

 

Normal to go from no smoke ever to BAM cloud of smoke?

Coincidence with the P0021?

 

I'll look up the OCV test and see how they behave.

 

Thanks!

My wifes Tribeca did that...no smoke to smoke on start up. It's an 06 with 136k on it - i just figured it's age. It goes away after a second. I don't think there's any correlation but I could be wrong, seems like these are completely different issues. I think the P0021 is due to some sort of blockage somewhere...check your shaft play on the turbo as well as your banjo filters. My 05 did that too right after I bought it - P0011 & P0021, changed oil, went away for a week, then P0021 came back. Inside engine was clean, car was always well maintained, but ended up with new block/heads/turbo as oil pressure was too high (according to techs). No turbo explosion but definitely quit working (no boost), I think it seized up due to blockage, didn't keep trying. I limped home and got lucky...let us know what you find. Edited March 1, 2021 by SoobyDoobyDoo

I'm thinking that you have a clogged banjo bolt filter causing oil starvation to the turbo, causing the turbo seal to go out? Those mesh filters are very fine, but I agree that taking the OCV out and hooking it up to 9V to check it is the way to go. If it operates freely and is clean, you need to look at that filter. As far as the oil smoke, seems too much of a coincidence that it'd smoke that much and throw a code as well. Keep us updated, and I'd check the shaft play on the turbo. You should have some play, but if it's enough to rub the housing....time for a new turbo. Keep us updated.

I hope it's just the turbo, and not internal issues. No crazy noises. The motor needs a ton of high mileage maintenance, so once I get into it a bit deeper I'll probably do clutch and all the leaky intake gaskets too. I'll post up what I find. Hopefully the nice weather holds out for a while

Sounds like it’s nothing major yet...most horror stories I read the turbo grenaded and it sounded like rocks in a blender. When mine was going out any throttle input made it sound like an ambulance or police siren (which I later discovered was the turbo bearing on turbo shaft with no oil noise). It wasn’t loud but loud enough to hear in the cabin...Any mods on the car?

 

Edit: when you check the oil check for glitter in it (bearing material). Turbo might not have blown but better safe than sorry. I’d check out the blown turbo wiki if you haven’t already done so, just some good info in there for reference.

Edited March 4, 2021 by SoobyDoobyDoo

No bolt on's, but ecu tune since ... I dunno.. 2012 maybe? at least 50k miles on the tune.

I'm really hoping I caught this in time to just be a blown turbo seal / bearings. Nothing grenaded. I could always hear the turbo on this car, it didn't get suddenly louder. Just so much smoke. My wife ran out yelling "turn it off, turn it off!"

 

Here is another question...

IF I can determine that the entire motor is not shot - maybe I need a turbo, who knows - I'm thinking of doing the timing, pulleys, water pump, and clutch while I'm into it. Might as well just pull the motor and do it all. Make sense? I also have block off plates for the air pump (coded out the cel long time ago when it failed), leaky intake gaskets, all sorts of odds and ends on a 175k mile ej255... DOes that seem worthwhile? Just pull the motor and make the jobs easier?

 

Original clutch if you can believe it. I don't baby it, but I don't let it burn either. This car has been ROCK SOLID since we bought it new. (unlike my 2013 wrx that killed itself at 55k miles. At least the warranty covered it.)

 

Thanks for the help and advice.

If you have the money and the want to keep the car for a while, yes spend the money now and do it right.

So here's what I've found so far. Pool of oil in the TB, some "fresh" looking oil on the turbo cold side.

 

I guess that is 'good' in the sense that if there was NO oil in the intake track, it would have to be internal.

 

Is it likely that the oil seals on the turbo are shot? The turbine spins pretty freely, but doesn't coast much. The shaft doesn't feel loose, but I don't know of the tolerances are feelable.

 

The banjo filter closest to the turbo doesn't look dirty, but I could hardly blow any air thought it if that means anything.

 

Man, these things are a pain in the ass to work on! Lol I'm used to 90s VWs and Jeeps.

Edited March 7, 2021 by imstillatwork

I'd do a compression/leakdown test, cheap and simple.

 

Drop the downpipe and inspect the shaft for play.

Sounds like its time to spend money or dump the car.

 

If the compression test/leakdown test come back ok,

 

JmP6889928 is the go to guy for rebuilding the turbo, remove that filter in the banjo fitting, replace the oil return hose, check the turbo inlet hose, they have been known to crack at the flex joint.

 

Oh, if you remove the tmic, be careful not to pull the TB hose the TB. It can be a PITA to line it up.

Hint, I bolt the turbo back on the up pipe, it makes it much easier to line up the oil return, turbo inlet and up pipe at the same time.

Also, leave all the bolts loose until you have the tmic lined up with the PITA TB hose.

update on the turbo. Last night I was too tired to look closely. Today I put a dial on the end of the shaft and it's .011 out on endplay and radial is...noticeable... the fins are virtually touching the housing if I press a little, visible movement radially.

 

I'll be in touch with jmp

Sounds like its time to spend money or dump the car.

 

If the compression test/leakdown test come back ok,

 

JmP6889928 is the go to guy for rebuilding the turbo, remove that filter in the banjo fitting, replace the oil return hose, check the turbo inlet hose, they have been known to crack at the flex joint.

 

Oh, if you remove the tmic, be careful not to pull the TB hose the TB. It can be a PITA to line it up.

Hint, I bolt the turbo back on the up pipe, it makes it much easier to line up the oil return, turbo inlet and up pipe at the same time.

Also, leave all the bolts loose until you have the tmic lined up with the PITA TB hose.

 

Thanks for the tips, appreciate it. I'll be doing most the work with motor out so hopefully that simplifies access to most parts. I'm not in a big hurry & this thing needs all sorts of odds and ends. I've found a few cracked hoses, intake gaskets are all leaky, it's due for timing kit / water pump in 10k miles, so might as well do it now, needs a clutch, and on and on.

 

I'll get a leakdown and comp test as soon as possible (before I start spending money...)

Sry I'm somewhat a noob. Ive had my 05 LGT for almost 2 yrs. Put an ej255 short block in it last year. Its got a few mods but im not tuned or data logging. I was researching a p0021 code when I found this thread

MY NOOB QUESTION IS.....i keep seeing the abbreviation "OCV" what does this refer too?

Oil control valve. There are two on the EJ255/57. They get clogged with prolonged oil change intervals or from turbo/engine failure. You can gently pry them open and spray them out with MAF cleaner or brake cleaner, or replace them if the code for them keeps coming up. I've had to replace both of mine once. Failure or near-failure will often manifest in the form of rough acceleration getting into boost/AVCS.

If you replace them, go OEM; aftermarket isn't near as good.

And most people that clean them just buy themselves a little time, they seem to replace them after a bit anyway.