Timing off?

What's everyone's opinion on how these cam gears line up....just took the cover off to see this...

 

Driver's side

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160521/de12b893b51c24aa266f069e1292b32e.jpg

 

Passenger side

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160521/737fe6282c19a3c1f929acbda74dd952.jpg

 

Now my next question is....do you think this could have harmed anything? I drove the car maybe 10 miles home and it felt fine. Slow, but drivable. No knock or noise that stood out to me. Any opinions or input appreciated.

 

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probably no valve damage.

it is not off far enough to be an issue.

the question is,

what caused it to jump.

tensioner?

toothed idler pulley?

replace them all.

 

just be sure it is in this position when you remove the belt.

double check the crank sprocket before you remove the belt.

it should be in the correct position with the cams like this.

correct crank position,

key way down at 6 oclock,

and hash mark on rear tab at 12 oclock.

 

by the way,

since this is a DOHC,

i assume it is an ej25, 1999.

this is really a second generation engine / car.

I'm in the process of pulling the heads for a HG job. I was going to just pull the belt off, let the cams do what they want, remove them since it's a DOHC. Then line everything back up the way it SHOULD be...with new timing components. Previous owner said he replaced the timing belt but I think he just replace the water pump trying to track down the overheating issue and put a new belt in while he was in there. That's also where I think the position of the passenger side gears got messed up.

 

What I'm wondering is if I can put them back at the correct position when reassembling. I wouldn't see why I shouldn't. But this is only my second timing belt replacement and first engine removal.

 

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Also, its kind of hard to see the driver side cam notches in the picture but they are dead on.

 

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Pass side

 

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160521/837eca1e503e8d6ce2b1e54cb5f01300.jpg

 

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when the cams and crank are in the correct positions,

there is no chance of damage when removing the belt.

and the following things are true:

ALL pistons are at mid stroke, not up and not down.

3 of the 4 cams are at rest, no tension on them, no valves open.

the intake cam (top) on the driver (battery) side is under load, valves are open.

 

this means that is the only one likely to move.

so when removing the belt, if it jumps,

no worries, everything else is out of the way.

 

i have heard, not 100% sure,

valve damage on these ej25 DOHC engines is due to valve to valve collision,

not valve to piston collision.

i don't know if this means it is the most common damage,

or that valve piston damage is not possible.

i just don't know.

 

but use the correct marks and line it up before you remove the belt.

I'm a bit confused. Lol if I'm taking the belt, cams, and all pulleys off, why do I have to line anything up (besides the crank gear notch and the notch right under the crank position sensor) BEFORE I remove anything? Because I'm just going to line everything up when I go to put the cams and belt back on....

 

When I did the belt kit on my 05 LGT, I lost the position of the cams when I took the belt off, lined them back up BEFORE I put the belt back on and everything was fine....

 

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if the cams and crank are NOT lined up,

you run the risk of something ''moving'' and causing damage.

the risk is low since the cams tend to ''snap'' shut.

but with the cank in the correct position, mid-stroke,

the valves CANNOT reach the piston.

 

what if :

you pay no attention and just cut the belt.

go to install the new belt.

to line up the crank oyu have to turn it more than 90 degrees.

this means at least one piston is going to come to the top during that rotation.

if any valves of this piston happen to be open,

you are going to bend a valve.

 

to prevent this what if possibility,

line it up right before you remove the belt.

 

got it?

Got it. Thanks a ton.

 

I've gotten the heads off. Now I have 2 more questions. One of the camshaft bearing bolts would NOT come out. Had to weld a nut onto it and finally got it. In the process of the weld, the actual camshaft bearing got a little marred up on the exterior(right where the head of the bolt sits)...I will get some pictures up tomorrow.

 

Seeing how I need to get a new bolt, should I go ahead and replace the bearing as well? Or is this just cosmetic? That's what it seems to me.

 

Next, I'm taking the heads in to get machined...since I had to take the camshafts out, some the "valve caps" is what I call them, seem to want to fall out. But some seem to want to stay in. Should I attempt to remove these or keep them in somehow?

 

Thanks again man! Not sure what I would do without you! Lol

 

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Bad one is on the right...

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160523/2045debd84bc12f4b3945f0888d86958.jpg

 

And these....

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160523/3253ecf0b7f91fa634b3b40b3e2ef9a6.jpg

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160523/69046d16a4990908dfbe16ddd43328aa.jpg

 

I'm unsure of the proper names for these parts. Doing more research today...

 

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Welp, based on my research, those are the lifters. Which have shims. Which are all mixed up. I have a feeler gauge but I have no idea what I'm doing. I got ONE exhaust shim to read .010" and that's it. And that's just with the camshaft sitting in there, not bolted down. Every other shim/lifter is out of spec for the driverside head.

 

Basically I'm screwed. Unless someone here has some type of easy solution to my screw-up. FML

 

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Alright...I'm learning. Never have I done anything so precise and important on a car so I want to get this right. I've gotten all the "buckets" back in. I figured that this car needed a valve adjustment anyhow so I might as well get this done. I've used a feeler gauge to measure the lash from each bucket/shim to the lobes on the crankshaft. All of them seemed to be VERY tight.

 

I found an excellent thread on rs25.com where it's explained in detail.

http://www.rs25.com/forums/f13/t142108-valve-lifter-mishap.html

 

I'm hoping I can just go to the dealership and order the right shims that I need. If anyone has any input, I'm all ears. I want to learn!

 

I've followed this as much as I could. The only thing I'm worried about is:

MY measurements and my torquing of the cam cap bolts(if that would affect the measurements I got).

The feeler gauge...how tight is too tight? Do I need to get more .0001" to be more accurate?http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160524/5496516ec6f0fc64692f43fc4e77c9d3.jpg

 

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it could affect the measurements if its not torqued down already how it will run. also if the head is off the car the measurements will change once it gets torqued back onto the car.

it could affect the measurements if its not torqued down already how it will run. also if the head is off the car the measurements will change once it gets torqued back onto the car.

Well, that's promising....

 

So...even if I torque the cam caps down to spec, once the heads go into the car car and get torqued down, the measurements are going to be different that with the head outside of the car? How does one adjust valves outside of the car then?

 

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Got them all organized. Only need to buy 2 shims because they were off about .003"

 

Will post an update when I get the heads machined and everything back in the car.

 

Thanks for your help everyone!

 

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