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OK, when it is time to start making an issue out of this.... no car, 3 weeks


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Let us go back to the beginning here..

 

I have been without my car for about 2 months overall because of this ongoing issues with car

 

 

May 2016, I buy my 2014 Legacy with 19K miles on it... starts out great until old man winter shows up and temperatures are in the -20 to - 30F range and I notice 2 things that I have never seen before

 

A. Car does not want to warm up

B. Gas Mileage tanks to around 21-23 on a route that I normally get 30-32mpg average on.

 

So… Jan 2017 when it was bitter cold out I take it in to the dealer, they look at it and come back NPF saying this type of gas mileage is normal for winter... (da fug? really?) I show them data logs were coolant temperatures are in the upper 160's even after 23 miles of driving

 

Winter goes by and car begins to give me normal fuel economy

 

November 2017... Temperatures are getting cold and once again, the car will not warm up

 

Take it back to dealer and get a repeat of previous year’s performance...Jan comes around and temps are -30F and no heat, take it to 2 different dealers and again it's normal NPF, buy a remote start and let car warm up (da fug?)

 

Some excerpts from the e-mail chain

 

Thank you for contacting Subaru of America, Inc. We appreciate you making us aware of your experience.

 

I reviewed your concern with the Service Manager at [deleted]. They advised that they have inspected your vehicle and at this time your vehicle is operating as designed. When the temperatures are extremely low, it does take some extra time for the interior temperature of the vehicle to reach a comfortable temperature. At this time there are no recalls or service campaigns affecting your vehicle which would be indicative of a common problem. I will document your concern and pass on your feedback to Product Development to consider when developing future models. Past input from our customers has been helpful in initiating changes to our newer models. The most valued opinion of any business is that of its customers.

 

If you need any further assistance, please feel free to contact us again.

 

Sincerely,

 

Amber Anglin

Subaru of America, Inc.

Customer/Retailer Services Department

1-800-SUBARU3 (1-800-782-2783)

 

 

To: "CustDlrServices@subaru.com" <CustDlrServices@subaru.com>

Subject: Re: (SR #:1-28464561375) Vehicle Problem

 

Amber,

 

Yes if you let it sit and warm up it will eventually get warm in the car. This is my problem

 

 

 

1. it is illegal to leave your car running unattended. If they are asking me to sit in a cold car for a time every morning, that is just not going to happen.

 

2. it is bad for the car to leave it idling for long times ESPECIALLY in the winter time

 

3. I drive my friend's 2013 legacy and the car has heat within minutes. Same for my friend's 2013 Outback (both are 2.5L). My 2003 Legacy has triple the mileage on it and I get heat before I am out of the subdivision I live in.

 

this issue is compounded by the severe drop in fuel economy.. when I say severe I mean going from 31MPG average down to 21-22MPG average with highway coming in at 25MPG. This is the first car where I am aware that fuel economy drops a bit in winter time due to different gas, air temp, etc but a 27% drop is HUGE my experience as been to see a 1-2MPG drop, not a 8MPG plus drop.

 

4. Engine operates at much higher RPM's because the car is not warm even after 10 miles of highway driving.

 

Talk to a mechanic and ask them what does low heat output, BIG MPG drop, car never seems to warm up, and engine runs like it is cold and they will tell you what the problem is:

 

Thermostat is stuck partially open and this is why the car is not operating as expected.

 

At this point I will take it to another Subaru dealer when it is cold (most likely next week) and go from there. I am not angry with deleted as they have been EXTREMELY good to me over the 12 years that I have done business with them but in this instance I believe that they are mistaken and the car is not operating correctly when the temps are cold.

 

Thank you,

 

Now I took my car to Bloomington Subaru and this is what they told me

 

1. Don't use the heat setting on floor it does not work well... (da fug you say)

2. Here, buy a remote start... (again, the da fug you say)

 

 

Now in late November… it starts to get interesting as it is getting in the colder range again and voila, what do we have here….

 

Now I took the car in for P0717 4 times already

 

First time: I took it in, told them the car smells like gas… they replace o2 sensor, car did not make it 50 miles before it threw the code again... car stalls out at a light...

 

 

Second Time: take it back the next day, said code is present and car still smells like gas… this is what they did while I waited

 

Transmission fluid exchange (mind you CVT has been replaced at 40K due to Subaru Tech going gorilla on the differential bolt and cracking the housing

 

Relearn on car...

 

Take car back and less than 2 weeks later cade is set to pending car runs like crap, take it back code P0171 is pending.... a week later get car back...

 

Car runs well for about 2 days and then finally take it back on January 30th, 2018 and I have not seen it since.

 

The loaner they gave me on Jan 30th had to be returned due to expired plates about a week and a half after I got it. and I talked to them and they said

 

1. we were able to duplicate your car not warming up. I said OK

2. we are going to replace egr and intake gaskets

 

IMHO this whole issue could have been avoided if

 

1. The Subaru dealer had actually listened to me and looked at the data I collected for them

 

2. Subaru of American would have actually looked at the data provided to them as well

 

There is no way on God's green earth that a 8-10+MPG DROP is acceptable for winter time driving the same route...

 

Now all is not bad I am driving their car on their dime but the hassle if going back and forth 50 miles each way is starting to get to me…

How would you all handle something like this?

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It seems like it just very cold. I would purchase a heater block warmer and a tranny warmer.(They even sale heater blankets for vehicles( Google). This would help decrease the warm-up time. I cannot see why you are complaining it really only making you more uneasy. It's not uncommon for MPGs to take a significant drop during very cold winters ( winter gas blend and longer warm-up Engle and tranny).

I agree with you that it is frustrating and disappointing but it is what it is. Spring will be here soon and back to normal MPGs.

Laughing at Oneself and with Others is Good for the Soul [emoji847]

Laughing at Oneself and with Other is good for the Soul😆
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you know I have never seen this with any other car, right?

 

2003 Subaru, no issues

2002 Acura CL type S, no issues

1998 Accord V6 no issues

1994 Accord i4 no issues

 

2003 Subaru drops exactly 1MPG in the winter driving the same route

2002 Acura dropped 1.5MPG in the winter driving the same route

1998 Accord dropped 2mpg

1994 Accord the change was not even noticeable

 

my co worker drives half the distance and gets 26 in his 2013 outback...the same power train as this car...

 

again this is NOT normal for a car to drop nearly 30% in fuel economy...

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My 2010 Legacy routinely gets 32mpg on the highway during Warmer months (depending on how much lead is in my foot, lol). But during the winter, I routinely get 25-26mpg highway. A mix of the winter blend fuel, snow tires (if you run them), colder temps/longer warm up time, all add up to less fuel mileage.
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I am not even getting that... average is 21-22.

 

Cars that I have driven this winter courtesy of Subaru

 

1. 2017 Outback averaged 28mpg same route

2. 2018 outback averaged 27.8 same route

3. 2017 Outback (another one) averaged 28.3 mpg)

4. 2018 impreza got 38 (that does not count)

5. 2017 Forrester is currently getting 25.5

 

Each one of these cars was new (ie less than 3000 miles on them)

 

I would be happy if my average was 25-26 mpg, not extremely low 20s. On this forrester the blue temp light is off before I make it 2 miles...and the car is throwing heat after 3 miles (auto climate turns on)

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That is done, I am talking about the whole scenario in general the part were I have the all the details about how the car is behaving, CEL is ON, car runs like crap, etc....but no one can fix it?

 

I have not brought this last issue to SOA yet but when this is all said and gone and I have my car back, I will document this thing thoroughly and send it up to them for review via their Facebook page for all to see what I have went through...

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So I guess you are not interested in purchasing simple heaters. It is easier to just complain then do a simple solutions.

 

Laughing at oneself and with others is good for the Soul![emoji2]

Laughing at Oneself and with Other is good for the Soul😆
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I would just continue using the loaners cars. They returned the car in the past with doing little work. Unless datalogging the ECM turns up a sensor that the tech notices is incorrect, it may not be an easy problem to troubleshoot the root cause of your poor gas mileage and intermittent drivability error. Just be patient.
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So I guess you are not interested in purchasing simple heaters. It is easier to just complain then do a simple solutions.

 

Laughing at oneself and with others is good for the Soul![emoji2]

 

i bet it is even easier for you not comment anymore in this thread.

 

Just in case you cannot understand what the issue is, let me spell it out for you.

 

 

1. car had a heating issue, 2 years Subaru dealer and SOA basically did not care... finally they acknowledge a problem....on Feb 9th 2018

 

2. car has a recurring P0171 (now this is the important part here) CAR HAS BEEN BACK 4X ALREADY In case you are confused as to what a P0171 is... Bank 1 too Lean.... and I am sure you would love driving your car with the short term fuel trim PEGGED AT 35%...

 

3. NO COMMUNICATION FROM DEALER UNLESS I CALL THEM FIRST

 

Now, do you understand why I am not happy with the level of service received? I already did all of the hard work for them by data logging the problem and giving them very specific details as to what is up.

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I would just continue using the loaners cars. They returned the car in the past with doing little work. Unless datalogging the ECM turns up a sensor that the tech notices is incorrect, it may not be an easy problem to troubleshoot the root cause of your poor gas mileage and intermittent drivability error. Just be patient.

 

Believe me I am patient and that is why i asked the question... there are downsides to having their car

 

1. no out of state travel

2. limited daily mileage

3. responsible for any dings on car that happen while you have it

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Believe me I am patient and that is why i asked the question... there are downsides to having their car

 

1. no out of state travel

2. limited daily mileage

3. responsible for any dings on car that happen while you have it

 

Why no out of state travel and limited mileage?

 

Every time I have had a loaner from Subaru, I was never placed on a mileage restriction, nor directed that I could not leave the state. I commute over 100 miles a day, round trip for work, and continued to do so with any loaner, and I have taken them out of state as well.

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just how it is with them.. states so right on the agreement... any how.. back to your regularly scheduled program

 

now I am told, cannot find cause of P0171 and we are still looking at the heating issue... seriously... talk about world class service.. Subaru is really telling me not to buy one of their cars and that is a shame because my wife and I were about to put down on an Outback...

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I have no issue with that as I only drive 20 miles a day but if I had to go somewhere in an emergency such as out of state, I'd be hurting...

 

I am upset at the run around I seem to be getting... I literally brought them the car 3x with the code SET or PENDING and they cannot do squat....

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well tomorrow I go get my car and this will (depending upon how SOA handles this the second go around) most likely be my last Subaru... I do not like being jerked around

 

dealer called back

 

we cannot get the light to come back on... oh really? 2 times being lit and 2x pending was not enough?

 

we found air pockets in your cooling system... yeah yeah yeah whatever.. you have bled the cooling system 2x before... my detailed experience will be posted to their facebook page in it's entirety starting with the very first visit winter 2016...

 

I am done. 12 years of service with the dealership and they threw it all away because they just would not listen....and decided to circle jerk me with their inability to repair my car.

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The Subaru dealers generally suck in my area

 

1. current dealer as you can see above

2. another dealer that was given the same information basically said by a remote start... never addressed the crap gas mileage

3. yet another dealer close to my home (I tested them out to see how their service was with an oil change) gave me my car back half washed and dried off.

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Sounds terrible. You are not being unreasonable at all. I had to wash my hands with a very well known local dealer due to a a loaner car problem and an issue they refuse to fix.

I'm taking my car to another well known dealer in the area in march for some other issues. It will be my first time there. Lets see how they handle it.

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OK i picked up my car and expressed my dissatisfaction with the service writer who got my car for me. It's a shame as i like all of the advisers and what I am going to do next will unfortunately impact them.

 

 

the icing on the cake was when i got home today, i smell coolant so i pop the hoot and there is Subaru blue coolant sprayed all over my engine....The problem actually goes back to 8-29-16 when during routine inspection they noticed coolant level low and topped it off...

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OK since I did all the diag work and my original conclusion was MASS airflow sensor I am going to replace mine and go from there. The readings at idle are all over the place when it is super cold so a new DESNO sensor is going to be put in.

 

(no I am not giving Subaru $180 for one)

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