Dealer is saying I might need a new block

Very bad day today, I thought I would just need to replace the banjo filter, but they showed me the pan, and it does have some very fine bits of metal, copper color. The short block may be ok, but without getting into it further, who knows. The shaft had some play, so my guess is the rod bearings are bad, and will need to be replaced. The heads are probably fine. I'm just very surprised this happened to a car with 42k on it. If the block is not ok, I'm looking at $6,400, less if they can reuse the heads and the turbo. I might be done with subaru, pissed:mad: My last subaru had zero issues and I drove it up to 100k miles.

When you say the shaft has some play, do you mean the turbo or the crank?

 

Turbo shaft has some play, not much, but enough to cause issues.

 

I just don't get it, the car drove great up until the day I noticed the strange whine coming from the turbo, inspected the banjo fitting, it was clogged and I took it in same day thinking the other filter might be clogged as well. It's not like I drove it for a week and hammered on it. I really doubt I need a new block, seems like I caught it early enough to not cause any major damage or internal scoring, the metal debris was very fine, no shavings or chunks. The technician seemed to agree, it was the service rep who thought otherwise, and mentioned the new block.

So basically if I'm reading this right, the banjo filters were defective parts and caused quite a few turbos to fail, and Subaru didn't issue a recall. My cars turbo, although it didn't completely fail, was definitely on it's out.

 

So my options are as follows....providing my block is not toasted.

 

Upgrade to the VF-52 and upgrade the oil lines or at the very least, remove the screen in both the banjo filter and the other one. and the supporting mods to go with. Hey, if I'm keeping the car I don't think I want to live with knowing I have defective parts on the car, may as we'll improve/fix or upgrade them.

 

Or If my block suffered mild damage, perhaps a bandaid repair, drive it for another 50k, then get something else.

 

Either way, I will get it out of the dealership to somewhere else pronto.

If you are at all mechanically inclined you can do the job yourself. A new short block is about $1800, another $250 for an engine gasket kit, and $300 to rebuild and deck the heads. You'll need a new turbo, you can get a BNR 16G for a decent price and the upgraded oil lines from M.Sprank http://www.infamousperformance.net there are plenty of members here to help if you get stuck. It's a much cheaper option to do this yourself!

Yes your best bet is a new OEM short block, have the heads rebuilt, new oil cooler and oil pump, vf52, catless up pipe, tune.

 

Also don't take a 9 y/o car to the dealer ship. find some local shop to do the job.

So basically if I'm reading this right, the banjo filters were defective parts and caused quite a few turbos to fail, and Subaru didn't issue a recall.

 

SOA did issue a Technical Service Bulletin (TSB) on removing the screen onthe banjo bolt filters. TSB's are like a recall, but you get to pay for the work! Sorry this happened to you. What was your oil change interval?

Yes your best bet is a new OEM short block, have the heads rebuilt, new oil cooler and oil pump, vf52, catless up pipe, tune.

 

Also don't take a 9 y/o car to the dealer ship. find some local shop to do the job.

 

I think the heads are fine, the block is likely just fine too, the dealership's natural tendency is to replace everything whether it needs it or not. Flush the oil a couple of times and it should take care it. I am going to need a new turbo or have mine rebuilt. There are two local places within a mile of the Dealership, AVO tuning world and Outback Auto. I will definitley be getting a second opinion and have the work done there.

 

SOA did issue a Technical Service Bulletin (TSB) on removing the screen onthe banjo bolt filters. TSB's are like a recall, but you get to pay for the work! Sorry this happened to you. What was your oil change interval?

 

I was changing the oil every 3500 miles, was currently at 1200 miles since the last oil change, oil level was full, I use a half synthetic blend also. Thanks for the info, I feel stupid not knowing about the Banjo Filters sooner, otherwise I would have inspected/ cleaned them every other oil change, but what's done is done.

 

 

I have plenty of options to explore, still leaning towards this list:

 

Vf52

Cobb catted DP

SPT exhaust (ver 2)

Upgraded oil lines for New Turbo (Infamous)

Custom tune

SOA did issue a Technical Service Bulletin (TSB) on removing the screen onthe banjo bolt filters. TSB's are like a recall, but you get to pay for the work! Sorry this happened to you. What was your oil change interval?

 

I recall they do NOT want to remove it, just clean/service it anytime the engine or turbo fails.

I recall they do NOT want to remove it, just clean/service it anytime the engine or turbo fails.

 

That's what my dealer told me.

 

They are VERY intent on keep the car "OEM", and told me to ignore the "forum" people.

 

Then they proceeded to put a non-OEM windshield on my car making me lose the heated windshield wipers so they could save a few bucks. Cheap bastards....

I recall they do NOT want to remove it, just clean/service it anytime the engine or turbo fails.

 

Interesting. My car is not serviced by a dealer, but by a local Subie shop and that is what they told me. I did not mean to pass on misinformation!

 

That said, I am still happy with my decision to lose the screen.

 

Edit: Did some quick Googling and found some discussion on NASIOC from the time of the TSB release that pointed to some actual information from SOA:

 

TSB1

TSB2

Yep, it sucks but it's only going to get worse if you don't fix it now... personally I'm in the same situation but I'm being very lazy about doing the work. I'm taking the view that it's a learning experience and doing it for 'fun', plus I don't want to put too much money into the car at this point.

 

I'm actually just getting back into the job after pulling the engine almost a year ago (is it really that long? Flickr seems to think so), and degreased/cleaned up the block over the weekend.

 

 

Hopefully I can get it put back together before (say) 2016 ;-)

Simon.

Yep, it sucks but it's only going to get worse if you don't fix it now... personally I'm in the same situation but I'm being very lazy about doing the work. I'm taking the view that it's a learning experience and doing it for 'fun', plus I don't want to put too much money into the car at this point.

 

I'm actually just getting back into the job after pulling the engine almost a year ago (is it really that long? Flickr seems to think so), and degreased/cleaned up the block over the weekend.

 

 

Hopefully I can get it put back together before (say) 2016 ;-)

Simon.

 

Good luck with the rest of the build! That is a great way to look at it too. I thought about taking that route, but I don't have that kind of time on my hands right now.

 

I just want to get it it done so I can start driving it again.

 

Oh, I am also selling the truck when this is done to replace the funds I will use for the build, the LGT will be my DD again.

FWIW, I have both banjo filters removed from my ej257. see sig.

 

Also, don't believe everything the dealer tells you.

 

I'd trust this forum over a dealership.

update 3/19/14

 

- car towed out of the dealer to a reputable all Subaru garage that has a dyno onsight and offers custom tunes, which I will need when the work is done. I still can't believe the Dealership charged me $480 for what they said was 4 hours of labor, good thing I told them not to put it back together or it would have been more.

 

I reinspected the oil pan with the owner of the garage, the amount of metal was so minimal that we struggled to find any in the daylight, we 're talking barely anything at all, the owner said my chances are very good that the block is just fine, so I am not going to replace it.

 

We went over the build, here is what I suggested and his recomendations:

 

VF52 Turbo

Cobb HFC Downpipe

SPT Ver 2 catback

OEM flex upipe to remove the catted stock one- recomended

Turbo Inlet- recomended

 

Infamous turbo Oil line upgrade not recomended by infamous for OEM turbos, too much oil flow, will probably kill replacement turbo

 

Custom tune

You take it to Outback? What stealership was it at?

You take it to Outback? What stealership was it at?

 

Yes sir I did, JohnJohn will do the tune. I have brought both of my subies to Outback when they were at the old location by the supemall, always been very happy with their work too.

 

It was at Auburn Stealership, glad I got it out of there, wish I would have just gone to Outback in the first place, I did call them first but couldn't get a hold of someone so I drove to the dealer thinking it would be $400 to have the oil lines changed. Expensive lesson learned.

Expensive indeed.

 

John and his crew have done loads of work on my wagon and he tuned me as well. Super knowledgable and very reasonable. Should be in good hands!

To put a measure on the amount of 'flake' in my case.... First noticed as the oil pressure light flickering very intermitantly once the oil was warm.

 

Draining the oil found this

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8092/8588567013_3473decc71.jpg

(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8092/8588567013_850516a59e_o.jpg)

 

Which was due to this

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8259/8713409985_736ef296bd.jpg

 

In your case I think you said that the turbo is definately bad, so the flake may/must have come from it. Did it get cycled through the system, ie. was there any flake in the banjo filters?

 

(NOTE: service note says to remove, clean, and REPLACE them.... they are really the last stand in preventing one problem causing another)

 

I think you need to weigh up whether you want to gamble that the bearings are OK. I guess in theory if you replace the bad turbo, and successfully flush the oil then you should not see any more flake... if you do you're going to have to split that block. And if you don't put the banjo filters back in, you're also going to have to worry about damaging the new turbo.

 

You don't say but I assume that the suggested (turbo) work is going to be done without removing the engine, which would keep cost down some.

 

I wish you luck, these cars are fun - but paying for repairs isn't,

Simon

Has anyone suggested replacing the oil cooler due to the contamination in the system? I've always heard it's a good practice in that situation. OA should be a good judge of whether a replacement is necessary.

I'm guessing the stealership did not save your oil for you? It would have been nice to send it to blackstone for analysis.

To put a measure on the amount of 'flake' in my case.... First noticed as the oil pressure light flickering very intermitantly once the oil was warm.

 

Draining the oil found this

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8092/8588567013_3473decc71.jpg

(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8092/8588567013_850516a59e_o.jpg)

 

Which was due to this

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8259/8713409985_736ef296bd.jpg

 

In your case I think you said that the turbo is definately bad, so the flake may/must have come from it. Did it get cycled through the system, ie. was there any flake in the banjo filters?

 

(NOTE: service note says to remove, clean, and REPLACE them.... they are really the last stand in preventing one problem causing another)

 

I think you need to weigh up whether you want to gamble that the bearings are OK. I guess in theory if you replace the bad turbo, and successfully flush the oil then you should not see any more flake... if you do you're going to have to split that block. And if you don't put the banjo filters back in, you're also going to have to worry about damaging the new turbo.

 

You don't say but I assume that the suggested (turbo) work is going to be done without removing the engine, which would keep cost down some.

 

I wish you luck, these cars are fun - but paying for repairs isn't,

Simon

 

The bearing is definitely bad, the rest of turbo can be probably be saved, the fan blade and the housing appear fine. The dust in the pan was from the bearing, non metallic, copper color, extremely fine and very little of it. A good flush with cheap oil is the plan, then back to synthetic again. the banjo filter was clogged, didn't really see flake until I looked at the pan.

 

I could probably get out of this thing for $2000 or less if I just wanted to exchange the turbo for a rebuilt one, but that is not the plan. I always tend to spend way more money on this car than needed, but the build should be good for about 300whp with the new vf52, which is worth it IMO.

FWIW, I have both banjo filters removed from my ej257. see sig.

 

Also, don't believe everything the dealer tells you.

 

I'd trust this forum over a dealership.

 

I didn't say I was going to believe him......he does walk the company line after all.

 

My local shop/tuner wants $500 to replace my uppipe (with one I provide) and pull the banjo filters- seems a little high to me.

I didn't say I was going to believe him......he does walk the company line after all.

 

My local shop/tuner wants $500 to replace my uppipe (with one I provide) and pull the banjo filters- seems a little high to me.

 

I think its in the ball park. I'm guessing this is a four hour job for a pro, plus they have 3 pricey gaskets to replace. I just did mine, took me about 6 hours. Downpipe and turbo have to come off to replace the uppipe.

 

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

My shop quoted 2 hours for an Uppipe. I did it myself in 3 hours having never done one before. I jacked up the motor for easier removal. This was for a standard catless Uppipe. I did have the shop install my external waste gate Uppipe for ease of tuning etc.

 

Turbo does not have to come off... But you will need to drop the down pipe, take off the intercooler, and drop the header.