Stop Start Technology...the future

My understanding is that this is a gimmick designed to gain a few hundredths of a MPG on the EPA mileage test. For the average driver it probably does not improve mileage at all. The reason it works on the mileage test is because The EPA city test cycles spend a lot of time idling. However, It is probably a good thing to have on a hybrid. My Prius used the small M.G. set as a starter with power coming from the traction battery, it also had an electric motor to run the A.C. and hybrids do not start the engine to move a short distance in traffic, the electric motor(s) do that just fine. But on a normal non-hybrid car it is just something else to break. Edited November 18, 2019 by tumbleweed 49

Picked up my Touring XT today! I didn't think the auto stop/start would be an issue as I've been in plenty of other cars (rentals) and quickly got used to it. In the Legacy it is noisier and more jarring than I remember in those other cars. Will give it some time to see if I can get used to it before turning it off each time I start the car.

The '20 OB XT's clumsy Stop/Start feature is something I could do without. ..

Having lived with the new OB for about 10 days, turning OFF the feature is required each time the vehicle is started. It's akin to a pre-flight checklist.

 

There's a workaround whereby invoking/setting of the incline feature,, will negate the operation of the Stop/Start function. I'll give this a try and advise.

Edited November 23, 2019 by M. Schneider

The '20 OB XT's clumsy Stop/Start feature is something I could do without. ..

Having lived with the new OB for about 10 days, turning OFF the feature is required each time the vehicle is started. It's akin to a pre-flight checklist.

 

There's a workaround whereby invoking/setting of the incline feature,, will negate the operation of the Stop/Start function. I'll give this a try and advise.

I will be paying attention to this and hope it works. I know someone somewhere will come up with a work around, this would be a nice fix.

 

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This is the only thing on the 202 Legacy I do not like. Every time I get in the car I turn it off. One of these days someone is going to be in the left hand turning lane and the car is going to die and the person is going to try and get out of the way of another car and not be able to and get hit. The person is going to accure injures and then Subaru is going to be sued.

This is a bad idea for a gas car. It was meant for a electric car which does not have a starter. The movement of the electric cars starts the motor when needed.

We will see how long this take before a car deal gets sued over this new feture.

 

Just imagine when the car gets 100,000 mile and the car is having a hard time to start and guess what the car dies in the intersection.

Start stop technology isn't anything new, it has been around for quite some time, just the first years Subaru has made use of it. I highly doubt anyone is getting sued ever... [emoji849]

 

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A defeat of the Stop-Start condition is having the steering wheel slightly off-center. For the Stop-Start feature to work, the steering wheel position must be dead straight-up forward (12 o'clock). When stopped, foot on the brake, with steering wheel off-center by as far as the 10 o'clock or say 2 o'clock will defeat the Stop-Start feature.

 

Give it a try.

Edited April 25, 2020 by M. Schneider

Thanks for the info. I tried the steering wheel trick and it worked for me.

I have had my Limited xt for about 3 weeks and it is beyond annoying. My wife who never notices anything asked what the shaking was when it restarted.

I have an electric vehicle now- so the issue is moot for me. But what it does illustrate is that start/stop technology and similar compromises become unnecessary with EVs. EV technology is clearly the future direction for a slew of reasons- and Subaru seems behind in this area.

 

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The future for Subaru has already begun with the global architecture, Subaru has been working on and with hybrids and electric vehicles for quite some time now. Part of that is the venture with Toyota, since every subaru uses the same architecture they need only develop one propulsion system which can then be implemented throughout the lineup. I think the biggest hurdle is still range and battery chemistry.

 

https://www.google.com/search?q=subaru+electric+car&rlz=1C1GGRV_enUS757US757&oq=Subaru+electric+car&aqs=chrome.0.0l8.5910j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

 

But as has been mentioned already the American attitude toward electrics needs to change so they can be a sustainable product on the market. As it is the demand is mild compared to ICE offerings, that and fuel prices are quite low here compared to other countries.

I'm obviously in the minority here since my Legacy Limited is a 2018 without the stop-start feature that's apparently standard in the 2020 Legacy.

 

My other vehicle is a 2019 Toyota Prius XLE hybrid that I recently purchased when trading in my 2011 Prius. Six million Prius vehicles have incorporated the stop-start technology since day one in 1997. Frankly, I have enjoyed my Prius experience and love to hear nothing but my own breathing while stopped in traffic.

 

https://www.greencarreports.com/news/1066686_five-things-you-need-to-know-about-stop-start-systems

I'm obviously in the minority here since my Legacy Limited is a 2018 without the stop-start feature that's apparently standard in the 2020 Legacy.

 

My other vehicle is a 2019 Toyota Prius XLE hybrid that I recently purchased when trading in my 2011 Prius. Six million Prius vehicles have incorporated the stop-start technology since day one in 1997. Frankly, I have enjoyed my Prius experience and love to hear nothing but my own breathing while stopped in traffic.[

 

In a Prius, or other HSD car, it works great because those cars are hybrids and start out using the traction (large) battery, when their ICE (internal combustion engine) starts you are usually moving and it is almost seamless. There is no starter as in a conventional car, the engine starts using the smaller MG set connected to the traction battery. Plus they have an AC compressor that runs off of an inverter connected to the traction battery so you have cooling even when the ICE is shut down. Unfortunately the start/stop in a Subaru is a kluge that is far from seamless and will never work right.

 

Fortunately my Subaru is also a 2018, I am very fond of it. If it had been equipped with a start/stop such as the 2020 model with no way to disable it without pushing a button every time I want to drive the car I probably would not have bought it.

Edited December 15, 2019 by tumbleweed 49

I've rented several non-hybrid cars that have had the start/stop technology and they have been much smoother. My 2.4 Subaru is inconsistent as sometimes the whole car rocks when restarting. It's like there is too much fuel and the engine backfires. To make things smoother they need to better coordinate the starter speed, fuel, spark, and torque converter load. Whatever is going on there is certainly room for improvement. I'm hoping an ECU flash will improve things.

I think they need to put the option back that when you turn it off it stays off in tell you turn it back on. I agree with Stuff that it is not ready for full on. Way to rough restarting the car.

I also agree that the owner of the car should have the last say on turning it on or off. Not to auto turn on every time you start the car. At one point the car is going to get old and have more problems starting. As a new car it is already rough but wait in tell you put 100,00 miles on the car.

I can't stand the start stop technology. Not a fan of direct injection unless it still has port injectors like the fa20. The emissions systems and PCV valve deposit too much oil vapor and combustion byproducts on the backs of the intake valve and all throughout the induction system, which no longer have port injectors spraying them directly keeping them clean.

 

An air oil seperator or catch can helps. You could also seafoam the intake with the regular air filter change schedule or about 30k miles.

I’m trying to give start stop a chance but I’m a hater. It is very unpredictable and unrefined. Sometimes it doesn’t shut the car down even when I expect and want it to. I hate that I bring the car to a stop and it shuts down before I even shift to park, and then it restarts again only for me to turn the car off. I refuse to believe this is good for the car in the long term. I’d like a first page macro that both turns on my AVH and turns off SS if Subaru won’t give us the chance to permanently disable these in our settings.

I believe that the roughness that people here are annoyed with is a resultant of Subaru's use of the flat four (or six) boxer block design. It is inherently a rougher starting and running configuration than Inline or V block engines.

Interesting April 10, 2020 article.

 

https://www.torquenews.com/1084/subaru-outback-has-new-fuel-saving-feature-you-don-t-it

A snap-shot to the above Torque News piece.

 

Article quote:

 

"Can I disable my Auto Stop-Start?"

 

..."The Auto Stop-Start can be disabled on your new 2020 Subaru Outback, Forester, Legacy, and Crosstrek. It’s different for each model, and the problem is, on some models like Forester, you cannot permanently disable it. The system will always default to an ON position once you turn the car OFF. So every time you get back in your car, you have to manually disable the system again"...

 

The article goes on to say [sAE] the stop/Start feature fuel savings are real .. Oh well, that's progress .. Have a read.

Edited April 13, 2020 by M. Schneider

I'm coming into this a little late but since there has been some recent discussion I thought I would offer my perspective.

 

I currently own a 2018 Volt which is a hybrid electric vehicle but not in the same sense as something like the standard Prius. The Volt, as long as the battery has a charge, primarily propelled by the electric motor (there are some minor exceptions but they are generally exceptions). This Volt replaced my 2005 Outback XT (which I absolutely loved). I purchased the Volt not to be "green" nor to save money on gas. I did so primarily because I was interested in the electric technology. What I write he is solely my opinion based on ownership of this one hybrid-electric vehicle. I offer it as insight only, it is in no way intended to sell anyone on electric technology.

 

To answer the OPs questions:

 

(1) It is my opinion that, given time, the ICE engine will be supplanted by electric technology. Currently we're in the early phases of electric technology. Not the very earliest but I think there's room for improvement.

 

(2) I can't answer this as it has been a year or so when I looked into this technology. After buying my Volt I haven't investigated other options. I am aware several manufacturers have released some form or another of an electric vehicle (primarily hybrids).

 

After having driven an electric vehicle for almost two years now I can say that there appear to be few downsides. The performance of my Volt is close to that of my Outback XT, (despite the Volt is not and never was intended to be a performance car), it's delivery is super smooth (and quiet while doing so), and I have a "full tank of gas" every morning.

 

Of course there are some downsides which most people will note as range and lack of charging infrastructure. IMO these two are downsides but they are not the most significant issues.

 

IMO the largest issue is the time it takes to fully recharge the vehicle. My Volt has an estimated range of 53 miles per charge. In order to obtain that it takes either 4 or 9 hours, depending on whether I use level 2 (4 hours) or level 1 (9 hours). Pure electric vehicles such as the Bolt or a Tesla would take 9 hours using level 2 charging. Of course they have the ability to charge faster but you have to use a charging station (i.e. you're not going to do it at home). Even so to obtain roughly 80% capacity will still take 30 or so minutes. With an ICE vehicle I pull up to the pump and within 10 minutes I have a full tank.

 

There are other issues and if anyone wants to discuss them I'd be happy to offer my thoughts. Or if you have any question about electric technology in general I'd be happy to answer what I can (I am by no means an expert). Also this isn't to sell electric technology to the forum. I offer no thoughts as to how green the other end of the charging cable is nor the manufacturing / end of life for the batteries. Those are "green" discussions, I'd like to focus on owning / driving experiences.

 

And finally: BMW has been using Automatic Start / Stop (i.e. "ASS") for years. While I don't own a BMW that has it I have had loaner vehicles with it. I hate it.

Edited April 18, 2020 by sunny5280

And finally: BMW has been using Automatic Start / Stop (i.e. "ASS") for years. While I don't own a BMW that has it I have had loaner vehicles with it. I hate it.

 

 

Yes, there's a reason we call it ASS. It sucks it.

 

 

I coded my BMW to leave it off all the time. It stays off in COMFORT (default), SPORT and SPORT + mode but if for some reason I click down (or the dog clicks down) into ECO PRO mode, ASS is activated. If I click back out of ECO PRO then it's back to off.

 

 

For me it's not that much of an issue since I try to stay out of ECO PRO mode. I did install an oil catch can today just for the sake of having it. The only time I will use ECO PRO is if I am going on a long trip and there is no traffic around, then I might see high 30s for mpg.

 

 

I'm looking into another Subaru soon and hopefully someone will figure out how to disable it completely.

I'm looking into another Subaru soon and hopefully someone will figure out how to disable it completely.

 

In Australia, Subaru has had auto stop/start since at least 2013 on the cars that are fitted with the TR580 CVT (not on those fitted with the TR690 CVT).

 

There were a couple of ways that it could be defeated but they also stopped the reversing sensors from working if they were fitted. My guess it would have also stopped RAB from working if we had that over here.

 

To find out how to disable it on the US 2020 model cars could be a bit more challenging. Hopefully someone will someday. I’ve driven Subarus in Australia with it, & I detest it.

Edited April 19, 2020 by XT-sub

I have had my legacy since December and only have 2k miles on it due to covid and not driving to work. The Start/Stop was very abrupt and jarring until this week. All of a sudden it is much less rough and i can live with it now. Before i was going to take it in and get it checked out. Maybe the engine had to break in some or the heat is helping, i don't know but i am glad.

The 2020 Legacy has Start-Stop buried a level deep in the Infotainment system in Settings, and it re-enables every time you turn off the engine. I wish they would update the software so it remembers your preference.

When you stop, just keep the steering wheel slightly off center and the system is disabled.

 

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When you stop, just keep the steering wheel slightly off center and the system is disabled.

 

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I have tried this and it does not always work. It works pretty consistent when the steering wheel is turned to the left. What a pain in the but this is.

 

Just give us the option to keep are settings.