I might be buying a LGT. Tell me what I need to know.

Hi.

 

I currently own a 3000GT VR-4. Fully built, billet turbos, wiseco pistons, FMIC, 1000cc injectors, ~500hp. The platform is just getting really old to me. Call me old but I wanted heated seats and 4 doors, while retaining All Wheel Drive and a turbocharged engine.

 

That being said, I do understand this platform is also "old". The cars being up to 11 years old at this point. So, educate me. I love to learn. I love to read. I love to tinker. I am a master toyota mechanic so I'm not afraid to get my hands dirty.

 

What do I NEED to know before buying a Legacy GT?

Some things I know already:

LGT has the same (or similar?) motor of a WRX STi.

Some years came with a red leather interior (super sexy. my VR4 has a red interior and i love it)

Heated Seats are thing on this model (YESS)

Cars came 5 speed but the spec B came with a 6 speed (that people tell me are bulletproof?)

 

Annnddd that's basically all I know.

What I'd like to know is:

What to look for when buying these cars?

If they have any common rust spots to look for?

What colors does the car come in? I'm not a fan of that light bluish color.

What kind of power can the stock turbo put out? (and if its as simple as just getting a boost controller / retuning the ECU)

What I would be most worried about during ownership? (for the VR4 it was bearing wear causing the motor to spin bearings. 6G72TT required new bearings every 100k or so)

What is the best year to buy?

Anything else?

 

I hope to become a part of this community soon.

THANKS

Read up on it yourself:

 

http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/new-owners-248307.html

That thread you linked is nothing more than a circlejerk with no real information.

 

Why do turbos go bad?

Is getting metal in the oil a normal issue? Is it lack of maintenance or just something that "happens"? What kills the bearings? etc etc.

 

Give me facts to read and I will educate myself. I can tell you 100s of things about the 3000GT, I want to be in the same mental state of a LGT before I buy one so I know what I'm looking for.

Look for an owner who keeps records would help a lot.

Check for timing belt replacement, head gasket failure, turbo health.

Recently replaced turbo is a red flag

Almost everyday someone posts how they get 2 blocks from the lot and the turbo blows.

 

Matainence related thread -

http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php?t=178342

Go to all the technical subforums. Read the stickies. Here is the turbo failure one

http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/turbo-failure-wiki-173358.html

 

All the information is here, just has to be searched for.

 

Don't buy one of these thinking you can do basic maintenance on an 11 year old car and be good to go. Chances are you will need a new turbo and an engine rebuild.

 

Might be better off buying a blown up car for cheap and rebuilding it.

^^plugged filter in the turbo oil feed line, basically lack of maintenance, search for banjo filter

Man it's kind of crazy seeing these threads about turbo failure. on the 3000GT platform the turbos never go bad, but the oil feeds directly off the oil pump. Where on the LGT it feeds off one of the heads, right?

 

Damn, now I'm all scared about buying one and being able to stock DD it. I don't want crazy power or anything really, just a fun all wheel drive turbo car with heated leather seats.

 

And no, absolutely no way I am buying a blown one and rebuilding it myself. I want one that's unmolested, not one that is starting with 15 STDs.

My advice, don't buy one. Read the threads around to make up your own mind, but my engine went at 120k miles, every day new owners post that their new to them cars just exploded.

 

Turbos and ringlands seem to go. Rebuilds are usually at least $6k.

 

Unless you can find low miles (not for the age but low miles) with all oil maintenance records. Even then it still seems to be a crapshoot

Take your time on this one. . .if it's too good to be true it probably is. Unmolested is the way too go if you're looking to stay stock or slight mods. If you find a good one it's totally worth every penny...the hardest part is finding the right one!

I'm gonna try to help the best I can even though I don't own a LGT. Hopefully someone will correct me if I'm wrong on anything.

 

The clutch throw out bearings suck on these cars, including my non-turbo. I think from what I've read, the problem is with the design. There is always slight pressure on the TOB, which shortens the life of the TOB. Some people have installed clutch return springs to try and make the TOB last longer. Expect anywhere from 50k to 100k on the TOB, which basically means replacing the whole clutch assembly while you're in there, as I'm sure you know. Some people may get lucky and have their tob's last longer, but seems like 50k-100k is a good range. Oh yeah, if you run the car too long with a bad TOB, it could explode and do more damage, that's why it's not really something that you should push.

 

This thread has some good information in it too, on what to look out for in general.

http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/things-look-out-246735.html?t=246735

 

As dujo points out above, oil consumption is common on these cars. If you buy one, make sure to check the oil level often. I usually check once a week on my car, unless I do a long distance drive or hard driving, then maybe twice a week.

 

Cars101 is also a good resource on general information, like color combinations and such.

http://www.cars101.com/legacy.html

The thread below also has links to where you can see all the colors

http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/official-vehicle-color-thread-71718.html

 

 

My 2009 has 188k, and has lived in New England its whole life. There aren't many problem rust areas. There's a coolant pipe on the turbo's that's prone to getting pretty rusty, shown below

http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/150-000-miles-and-7-years-does-your-water-pass-206972.html

 

There's a recall on one of the brake line joint connectors since things can get rusty there and possibly leak.

http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/05-09-legacy-outback-brake-line-corrosion-recall-204831.html?t=204831

 

Other than that.. I can't really think of any problem rust areas off the top of my head right now.

 

The LGT that comes with red seats is the Spec B model. It looks like the 2006 Spec B came with a 5spd manual transmission, and the 2007+ has the 6spd. I included links to each year just in case there were additional changes from year to year, which I think there might be (I quickly glanced at each link, didn't thoroughly read).

2006 Spec B

http://www.cars101.com/subaru/legacy/legacy2006photos1.html

 

2007 Spec B

http://www.cars101.com/subaru/legacy/legacy2007.html#SE adds

 

2008 Spec B

http://www.cars101.com/subaru/legacy/legacy2008.html#specb

 

2009 Spec B

http://www.cars101.com/subaru/legacy/legacy2009.html#specb

 

You asked about metal getting into oil. From what I understand, excessive shaft play eventually causes the compressor wheel to hit the housing, and blow up. That sends metal fragments into the lubrication system, where it goes to do more damage to the engine. So from what I understand, that's usually why you can't just replace the turbo after it blows. There's still metal in the lubrication system hiding, and you will only have more problems down the road, unless you get lucky.

 

I'll leave it at that, and let the LGT guys provide more info since they know more than I do.

Welcome.

 

That's all I can get you.

 

My car is non mod.

My advice, don't buy one. Read the threads around to make up your own mind, but my engine went at 120k miles, every day new owners post that their new to them cars just exploded.

 

Turbos and ringlands seem to go. Rebuilds are usually at least $6k.

 

Unless you can find low miles (not for the age but low miles) with all oil maintenance records. Even then it still seems to be a crapshoot

 

Or find one from CarMax so you can snag their bumper-bumper warranty like I did recently. The warranty rate is priced the same as the 2.5i Legacy, so it's actually really cheap insurance for these pesky engines.

 

Don't buy one from anywhere with a compression test and records.

 

Another problem area not yet mentioned, from my experience and reading on here, are wheel bearings going bad. 05-06 models have issues with clogged turbo lines from banjo bolt filters that need to be removed, and also have catted uppipes that are a grenade waiting to happen and likewise need to be removed.

 

The real bottom line is that you want a really thorough inspection before buying. These cars are fantastic drivers but are also a money pit waiting to happen, and there are numerous stories on here of people buying one and literally having the turbo or something blow up on the drive home. Like someone else said, it seems to be a dice roll - there are many members here with 200,000+ miles and no problems, and a lot of others who needed turbo or shortblock replacements/rebuilds by the low to mid 100,000s. You need to be patient when looking. I'd suggest buying from someone on here or NASIOC if possible because those are far more likely to have been taken care of properly and have service records than random examples on Craigslist, Cars.com, etc.

 

The less modded, the better, with the exception of a Stage 1 tune because the OEM tune on these is shit and actually can result in burned valves in the long run. Depending on how it was driven, the clutch will probably need to be replaced somewhere around 100,000 miles, along with the timing belt and water pump at 105,000 or so. Ideally, you want to find the least modded, lowest mile example possible, and get it completely checked out by someone who knows turbo Subarus.

Or find one from CarMax so you can snag their bumper-bumper warranty like I did recently. The warranty rate is priced the same as the 2.5i Legacy, so it's actually really cheap insurance for these pesky engines.

 

Doug Demuro has some excellent articles about the Carmax warranty, and how well it worked out for him on a mid-2000's Range Rover. Worth the read.

 

 

Another problem area not yet mentioned, from my experience and reading on here, are wheel bearings going bad. 05-06 models have issues with clogged turbo lines from banjo bolt filters that need to be removed, and also have catted uppipes that are a grenade waiting to happen and likewise need to be removed.

 

The real bottom line is that you want a really thorough inspection before buying. These cars are fantastic drivers but are also a money pit waiting to happen, and there are numerous stories on here of people buying one and literally having the turbo or something blow up on the drive home. Like someone else said, it seems to be a dice roll - there are many members here with 200,000+ miles and no problems, and a lot of others who needed turbo or shortblock replacements/rebuilds by the low to mid 100,000s. You need to be patient when looking. I'd suggest buying from someone on here or NASIOC if possible because those are far more likely to have been taken care of properly and have service records than random examples on Craigslist, Cars.com, etc.

 

The less modded, the better, with the exception of a Stage 1 tune because the OEM tune on these is shit and actually can result in burned valves in the long run. Depending on how it was driven, the clutch will probably need to be replaced somewhere around 100,000 miles, along with the timing belt and water pump at 105,000 or so. Ideally, you want to find the least modded, lowest mile example possible, and get it completely checked out by someone who knows turbo Subarus.

 

The wheel bearing thing is pretty much every subaru made in the 2000's.

Thank you for all of the information. I also didn't know cars 10 1 was a website, Def going to be reading up over there.

I want one that's unmolested

Just buy mine, and call it a day.

It still has the protective blue plastic strip on the driver's side door sill.

http://vancouver.craigslist.ca/van/cto/5391592667.html

You need to do what I did, I bought 2 of these cars. That's so when one breaks I can drive the other one.

 

Check out Lafta's car, that would be a good ride. The Spec B's are what everyone dreams of owing. Subaru should have made many more of them, "fail" on there part. The Spec's are that nice to drive.

Just buy mine, and call it a day.

It still has the protective blue plastic strip on the driver's side door sill.

http://vancouver.craigslist.ca/van/cto/5391592667.html

 

Beautiful car man but about twice as much as I am looking to spend.

 

Edit: just to clarify there are a few (more than 5) lgt manual trans cars for sale near me that are all in the 5-9k range.

Beautiful car man but about twice as much as I am looking to spend.

 

Edit: just to clarify there are a few (more than 5) lgt manual trans cars for sale near me that are all in the 5-9k range.

 

I don't know where you are, but chances are the $5k will need $6k in engine work if you buy it.

Beautiful car man but about twice as much as I am looking to spend.

 

Edit: just to clarify there are a few (more than 5) lgt manual trans cars for sale near me that are all in the 5-9k range.

 

I'm thinking that car is in Canadian dollars so it would be around $12k US. That's kind of a steal for a spec b. I could be wrong tho

Beautiful car man but about twice as much as I am looking to spend.

 

Edit: just to clarify there are a few (more than 5) lgt manual trans cars for sale near me that are all in the 5-9k range.

 

If you ever got a chance to drive the cars back to back, you'd understand why the Spec B is that much better.

It is just because of the trans?

It is just because of the trans?

 

 

No, the whole car is that much better. I have one of each. The Spec is a different car. Now they do say the 05's are a bit on the raw side. Even before I put the Koni's and Epic springs on the wagon, the Spec was so much different.

 

The ride quality is at least a step above.