CovertRussian's 05 LGT Build Thread

I'm not sure the tank would pressurize, since vapor canister is connected to tank via duty valve too, which might be closed.

I'm not sure the tank would pressurize, since vapor canister is connected to tank via duty valve too, which might be closed.

 

Looking at the service manual, it appears the evap line going to the intake manifold is infact directly connected to the fuel tank.

 

Though they have one diagram that seems to say that it has to go through the canister.

 

But if you go look at the parts you can order, it goes straight to the tank.

 

So I think the tank pressure sensor would be a valid test.

Edited October 23, 2017 by utc_pyro

Huh interesting, guess it's connected to both. I didn't expect that, my Nissan is connected to canister only.

In 2014 Subaru performed the WQK-47 recall, where they "fixed" the issue by spraying the lines with some wax. Seeing how Subaru fixed this issue, I've wondered how long the rear lines would actually last, hoping Subaru would fix it (or be forced to fix it with recall #3).

http://legacygt.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=257119&stc=1&d=1508820325

 

Three years have passed and I completely forgot about it, then I stumbled across another forum members thread, where his lines failed and Subaru refused to fix it.

 

Since this thread reminded me of my lines, I got under the car and took a look at my lines, the wax did absolutely nothing. In fact the rear lines going to the calipers became way worse (outside lines). Notice how the body side lines (coming from interior) look perfect, being ~2 inches from each other tells me inferior lines were used for the outside lines

http://legacygt.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=257121&stc=1&d=1508820325

 

To add insult to injury, the rear right wheel's brake lines (lower one) were rusting at every mounting point too.

http://legacygt.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=257122&stc=1&d=1508820325

 

 

Since the brake lines were now a ticking time bomb, I got everything needed to do a Nickle-Copper line conversion, which should never rust. Please note I used 3/16-24 fittings thinking that was OEM thread size/pitch, when OEM is actually M10 x 1.0.

 

Parts list:

4 feet x 3/16" NiCorp Line

9 x Stainless Steel 3/16" Fittings - OEM Thread: M10 x 1.0

4 x Inverted Flare 3/16" Connectors - OEM Thread: M10 x 1.0

1 x Flaring Tool

1 x Pipe Cutter

1 x Pipe Bender

http://legacygt.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=257120&stc=1&d=1508820325

 

I went to undo the stock line, trying to reuse the connecting block, that finished off the line in no time.

http://legacygt.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=257123&stc=1&d=1508820325

 

Rear right wheel's line pulled out, I cleaned off the bubbling rust off the mounting points. I really don't understand why they couldn't use a fully plastic dipped lines like they did on the inside.

http://legacygt.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=257124&stc=1&d=1508820325

 

Since the connecting block was unusable, I had to cut all 4 lines at the flare nut. I thought about flaring the stock line under the car, but there wasn't enough room to fit flare nut and flaring tool (needs a good amount of straight line). Thus I decided it's better just join the new line to the stock lines inside the car, reducing steel lines that will rust.

 

Left line goes to the rear right wheel, right line goes to the rear left wheel (goes over the gas tank).

http://legacygt.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=257125&stc=1&d=1508820325

 

Started with working on the rear right wheel, since it's the most rusted line.

http://legacygt.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=257126&stc=1&d=1508820325

 

Stock line has plastic cover, which wouldn't cut, had to use a torch to melt it away.

http://legacygt.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=257127&stc=1&d=1508820325

 

Using the flaring tool with the 3/16 adapter

http://legacygt.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=257128&stc=1&d=1508820325

 

This made the bubble flare in top picture, removing the 3/16 adapter lets you create the double flare portion.

http://legacygt.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=257129&stc=1&d=1508820401

 

First line is prepped for connection

http://legacygt.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=257130&stc=1&d=1508820401

 

Gonna time skip to finished inside lines, this took a lot of trial and error.

http://legacygt.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=257131&stc=1&d=1508820401

 

I really didn't want to drop the gas tank to replace the rear left line, plus since it sits above the rear right, it didn't get nearly as much salt water splashing, thus less rust. Instead I flared it to connect directly to the interior line.

http://legacygt.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=257132&stc=1&d=1508820401

 

I removed the bracket that held the previous connector, this gave me room for my less sharply bent lines. Top line goes to rear left, bottom line goes to rear right.

http://legacygt.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=257133&stc=1&d=1508820401

 

Rear right line stock vs new line, new line is much simpler.

http://legacygt.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=257134&stc=1&d=1508820401

 

New rear right line runs by the gas tank, hopefully will shield the rear left from splash still.

http://legacygt.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=257135&stc=1&d=1508820401

http://legacygt.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=257136&stc=1&d=1508820401

 

Plenty of clearance to the rear subframe

http://legacygt.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=257137&stc=1&d=1508820401

 

Bled the lines with spare Dot 4, last of ATE Superblue before it became illegal, came out perfect without any bubbles, yay!

http://legacygt.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=257138&stc=1&d=1508820401

Edited October 24, 2017 by covertrussian

Thanks for documenting your process, it's a preview of coming attractions for me.

 

Were you able to inspect the rear left line to verify that it hasn't rusted out like the right side, or are you just trusting that it should be fine because it's protected from the elements on top of the gas tank? I would also like to avoid dropping the tank if possible...

Thanks for documenting your process, it's a preview of coming attractions for me.

 

Were you able to inspect the rear left line to verify that it hasn't rusted out like the right side, or are you just trusting that it should be fine because it's protected from the elements on top of the gas tank? I would also like to avoid dropping the tank if possible...

 

You can't really get to it to inspect it, so I am just trusting that it's fine. Once I pulled the right side line out, I didn't see any rusty on the left side that sat above it.

 

If it comes to it, I'll figure out a way to run the line without dropping the tank, because with our rusty cars, if you have to drop the tank you have to get a new tank + new hangers

Awesome job documenting your efforts. I have an 07 Legacy GT that I purchased about a year ago from someone in NJ and it's got some issues that need to be addressed and just reading your willingness to get under combined with the great documentation is giving me the confidence to start working on my car as well. Keep the good work!

Couple weeks ago I went back to the factory UEL header and GS Up Pipe in preparation to do a ELH vs UEL vs Ported UEL testing. Needless to say the car has been seeing a lot of full throttle love (probably close to 100 2nd gear pulls already ). One thing I noticed was power being down compared to last month or so, I was getting ready to blame the UEL header, but then found that huge vacuum leak, fixed it still power was down to 230whp on most pulls.

 

Running out of things to check, figured I would check the spark plugs. I didn't think of spark plugs being a culprit because I installed them (LFR7AIX) about 5k miles ago, with side gap at 0.035". Well after pulling one out I noticed the gap was around 0.043" (my gap gauge only has 0.040" or 0.045").

http://legacygt.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=257245&stc=1&d=1509030493

 

I gapped them all down to 0.028" and installed them. Went for a test drive the next day, AFR's were about 0.7 leaner (went from ~10.9 to ~11.6). But the car was really hesitant at 3-4k rpm, even after adding more fuel, like the spark was breaking up. Either I damaged the plugs while gapping them down, or 7's don't like being so narrowly gapped and were fouling. Local buddy has some used SILFR6A's still stock gaped at 0.028. Installed those and the car was much happier.

 

As usual I did see interesting things in the logs. For one, MAF voltage went down, even though the SILFR6A logs were on a 10F cooler day. I have no idea why MAF voltage would be down because of this, just makes no sense (this is with my brand spanking new MAF too).

http://legacygt.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=257240&stc=1&d=1509031271

 

This made engine load be down too:

http://legacygt.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=257239&stc=1&d=1509031271

 

Which translated to a slightly bit more timing, but negligible. AFR's were way leaner too, but I corrected those right away.

http://legacygt.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=257241&stc=1&d=1509031271

 

Finally smaller gapped plugs restored a ton of power everywhere, even after adding 6.5% more fuel at WOT. I was definitely getting spark blowout on 0.043" gap.

http://legacygt.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=257242&stc=1&d=1509031271

 

 

As for finding the root cause, this is exactly what I saw with my LFR6AIX plugs too, curious about it started doing some research. LFR*AIX plugs have nickle ground straps, just like "copper" plugs. While SILFR*A plugs have platinum on ground electrodes, which reduces erosion. Now I've side gapped copper plugs for over a decade and never seen such wear in just 5k miles. Then I looked at the plug and it hit me, fine point plugs will arch at the same ground strap. point all the time. While copper plugs have a wide center electrode, which means spark can originate from many points and hit many points on ground strap.

 

If you look carefully you can see a little concave spot on the ground strap:

http://legacygt.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=257250&stc=1&d=1509039842

 

I'm now 100% convinced on running SILFR6B8 that come on 2010+ turbos that utc_pyro suggested earlier. They are basically side gaped plugs, but with platinum ground tip for longer life. I'll get those next year, I'm done with spark plugs for this car for a while .

Edited January 21, 2018 by covertrussian

* subbed for next years spark plug install and results

 

While bleeding the brakes last Sunday, I noticed that my front caliper's were not in that great of a shape. The dust boot that I installed 3 years ago were starting walk out and the pistons were not moving freely due to corrosion.

http://legacygt.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=257331&stc=1&d=1509159397

 

After spending 3 some hours trying to install new caliper boots, I gave up. Went to Rock Auto and saw that Centric calipers were only $45 after cores, why on earth did I not get these sooner and save me hours of head aches .

http://legacygt.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=257332&stc=1&d=1509159397

http://legacygt.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=257334&stc=1&d=1509159397

http://legacygt.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=257333&stc=1&d=1509159397

 

Comes with brackets too with new pins and bots

http://legacygt.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=257335&stc=1&d=1509159397

 

Here's the best part, one of my pet peeves of our front brakes. Rear calipers use 14mm guide pins, fronts were 12mm. These Calipers come with 14mm, so now it's all the same

http://legacygt.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=257336&stc=1&d=1509159397

 

And done, now I can go back to finishing my lunch break

http://legacygt.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=257337&stc=1&d=1509159397

http://legacygt.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=257338&stc=1&d=1509159397

 

 

I don't think the old calipers were really dragging, they just weren't engaging, so I'm not expecting to see an MPG bump. Though the passenger side pads were more eaten then the driver side, this all the sudden explains why my rear pads wore out before front, and why my stopping power was worse on the Legacy then even my friends 06 NA outback.

Edited October 31, 2017 by covertrussian

Why not paint/protect them while you had the easy access?

Why not paint/protect them while you had the easy access?

 

Mainly because I installed it on my lunch break, 2hrs after they actually arrived . My weekend was pretty booked up (starting with Friday night), I knew the only time I had to replace them was on lunch break on Friday.

 

I'm not sure if it's bare metal or if it's coated, it almost looked coated. I'll stop by and get some more high heat paint and spray them down soon. Edit: Just saw an amazon review saying they rusted right of way, looks like I'll be spraying them sooner then later.

Edited October 30, 2017 by covertrussian

I'm on my 3rd set from rockauto, they have excellent customer service and have replaced under warranty. I've tried Centric and Raybestos and both rusted immediately, even after 3 coats of *cheap* caliper paint...

Good to know, did they replace it because calipers failed or because of rust? With cast iron I'm not so concerned about rust because, like with out turbo manifolds, it's just surface rust that protects the rest of it

1 set rusted badly(not driven in winter) within 2 months with no paint...they replaced due to extreme rust.

2nd set the right caliper's pistons seized within 6 months...replaced due to failure.

Currently running my 3rd and FINAL set of remanufactured calipers.

They have rust coming up through the paint now and I have a feeling they are dragging excessively as my pads squeak constantly when cold and at slow speeds.

Maybe I've just had some bad luck with them but I hope you got a good set!

Damn that's bad luck. I sure hope mine last longer, though my stock ones were not looking all that hot either .

 

Did you heat cycle the calipers after painting them?

I replaced the calipers on both my cars last Spring with NAPA calipers, did fronts and rears on the Spec and the fronts on the wagon. The dealer replaced the left rear as part of the brake line recall fix. I guess it got damaged somehow. So I had them replace the right rear too.

 

https://www.napaonline.com/en/search?q=N%3D5006800%2B200680080%2B10200500%2B406802200%2B599999900%2B52012300%2B59899900%2B50300300%2B50349900%26Nty%3D1%26Ntt%3Dcalipers%26Ntk%3DKeyword&text=calipers&isApplication=true&indices=API&referer=nol-veh-conds

Edited October 30, 2017 by Max Capacity

Had not heard of heat cycling after painting...looks like I'm the one to blame for this last set haha

Thanks for sharing your hard work!

I think I see the first reason why these would fail prematurely. As I removed my driver side to get ready to paint them, I saw very stretched dust boots. I then spend the next 5 minutes trying to get the boots into their proper happy zones

 

http://legacygt.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=257456&stc=1&d=1509418234

 

Had not heard of heat cycling after painting...looks like I'm the one to blame for this last set haha

Thanks for sharing your hard work!

 

A lot of high heat paint likes to be cured properly before it really sticks. Did you use high heat primer with the high heat paint?

 

I replaced the calipers on both my cars last Spring with NAPA calipers, did fronts and rears on the Spec and the fronts on the wagon. The dealer replaced the left rear as part of the brake line recall fix. I guess it got damaged somehow. So I had them replace the right rear too.

 

https://www.napaonline.com/en/search?q=N%3D5006800%2B200680080%2B10200500%2B406802200%2B599999900%2B52012300%2B59899900%2B50300300%2B50349900%26Nty%3D1%26Ntt%3Dcalipers%26Ntk%3DKeyword&text=calipers&isApplication=true&indices=API&referer=nol-veh-conds

 

 

Man those are pricey, that's almost $200 each before core

As I read the thread, I was hoping to see them painted or to have the opportunity to mention it, but obviously I'm late. I have yet to see a reman caliper NOT rust. Hearing about rust even coming through paint is disappointing and makes me want gold brembos even more. Nonetheless, Rock Auto has the best pricing.

Man those are pricey, that's almost $200 each before core

 

 

I bought the cheaper ones I think the fronts were like$130 rears were like $80. The NAPA is about 3 miles from me so it was easy to get what I needed.

 

None have any rust on them yet.

Did anyone paint inside the piston? Those rust like crazy.

Man those are pricey, that's almost $200 each before core

 

 

I bought the cheaper ones I think the fronts were like$130 rears were like $80. The NAPA is about 3 miles from me so it was easy to get what I needed.

 

None have any rust on them yet.

 

Pics? I'm intrigued. Did you do anything prior to installing them?

Sorry, don't, they were just calipers. I just put them on. Bled the system.

 

I think they do have some coating so they don't rust.

 

 

Found this from the NAPA site,

 

Coating Description Black Protective Coating

 

https://www.napaonline.com/en/p/SEBSE3900A

Edited October 31, 2017 by Max Capacity

Had not heard of heat cycling after painting...looks like I'm the one to blame for this last set haha

Thanks for sharing your hard work!

 

Bought another can of paint, which has the curing process on it. From the webpage:

Curing Caliper Paint VHT Caliper Paint only attains its unique properties after correct curing.

Bake at 200°F (93°C) for 1 hour.

The inherent heat of braking operation will also accomplish curing.

 

As I was painting my other side, I tried painting without primer and it wouldn't stick to the caliper. I used the 500F high heat primer, with it it helped the spray paint lay down well.