Which Legacy GTs are the most reliable?

Hi guys,

I'm going to be trying to get rid of my 06 GX470 with 185,000 miles, and buy a Legacy GT. I think the Spec B would be outside of my budget, but it seems like there's plenty of Legacy GTs that are in budget with around 150,000 miles. I'm definitely set on the 4th gen body style, and I want it to be a manual. However, I've been reading some of the threads about the turbo failure and I'm nervous. As a result, I'm here with a few questions.

1. Is it better to get a n/a?

2. Is there a way to get the turbo/engine inspected before purchase that would reassure me that it had been maintained properly?

3. Are there model years that are more or less reliable than others?

Some additional information:

1. I already own a G35 stickshift, but I'm going to be living in Philly for at least 3 years, if not more, so AWD would be nice. Then, I can keep my G35 in good condition and avoid driving it on salted/treated roads.

2. I'm also considering Volvo AWD R-design cars, E30 325IX, K5 Bronco, Toyota pickups, Mazdaspeed 6.

That's a very funny question...

A rebuilt one...not on the factory tune.

That's a very funny question...

 

A rebuilt one...not on the factory tune.

May I ask why that's so funny? Are they known for being unreliable?

Hmm, well the blue book value on the lexus is around 11,000 so assuming I have *at most* 10k to spend on a car, what should I be looking at?

I see a few examples with around 100,000 miles for that price. Or is it still better to go for a N/A 2.5i

I'm a pretty spirited driver, so I definitely prefer a faster car. It seems like the 2.5i does 0-60 in around a whole second slower than the 2.5gt, which is already slower than my G35 to 60.

I was looking around, and I did see this car (I'm linking it at the bottom because the link is long) with a brand new turbo, and pretty low miles overall. It will be across the country from me but I don't mind driving back across if the price is right.

When looking for a 2.5gt, is it better to look for one with a new turbo? I see a lot for sale with 150k-ish miles and my friend who is into subaru's says that in his experience that's around when the factory turbo will go if it hasn't been maintained perfectly well.

https://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-sale/vehicledetails.xhtml?listingId=461920136&referrer=%2Fcars-for-sale%2Fsearchresults.xhtml%3FstartYear%3D2005%26numRecords%3D100%26sortBy%3DderivedpriceDESC%26incremental%3Dall%26firstRecord%3D0%26endYear%3D2009%26modelCodeList%3DLEGACY%26makeCodeList%3DSUB%26transmissionCodes%3DMAN&startYear=2005&numRecords=100&firstRecord=0&endYear=2009&modelCodeList=LEGACY&makeCodeList=SUB&makeCode1=SUB&modelCode1=LEGACY

Hi guys,

I'm going to be trying to get rid of my 06 GX470 with 185,000 miles, and buy a Legacy GT. I think the Spec B would be outside of my budget, but it seems like there's plenty of Legacy GTs that are in budget with around 150,000 miles. I'm definitely set on the 4th gen body style, and I want it to be a manual. However, I've been reading some of the threads about the turbo failure and I'm nervous. As a result, I'm here with a few questions.

 

1. Is it better to get a n/a?

I believe as a general rule the n/a is more reliable than the turbo. However they suffer the Subaru head gasket problem shared by many early generation 2.5 liter Subaru's:

https://allwheeldriveauto.com/subaru-head-gaskets-problems-explained-part-ii/

It's my understanding the turbo charged vehicles do not suffer the head gasket problem.

As for better, well, that's subjective. IMO the turbo charged version is the only way to go. It's so much fun (especially combined with a stick).

Be aware if you decide to purchase an n/a version and find it lacking you'll be unable to reasonably increase it's HP. Don't be that guy who buys an n/a version and comes here asking how to increase HP. The advice is the same: Sell the n/a car and buy the turbo one.

2. Is there a way to get the turbo/engine inspected before purchase that would reassure me that it had been maintained properly?

A pre-purchase inspection is always a great idea. Spend the money on one from a reputable Subaru shop (unless you have a mechanic you already trust). Ask about having a compression test performed.

Be wary of a NEW turbo, be wary of a NEW turbo, be wary of a NEW turbo. If the car is advertised with a new turbo have it inspected by a Subaru specific mechanic. Inform them the turbo was just replaced. Thoroughly question the seller on why the turbo was replaced. Really dig into the reason. If it failed even an inspection may be insufficient to identify the potential damage that lies in wait.

Did I mention you need to be wary of a new turbo?

3. Are there model years that are more or less reliable than others?

Generally later year versions of the same model generation are more reliable than earlier ones. This is because manufacturers have had time to identify problems and correct them.

For example the banjo bolt filters. In the early years (2005 - 2006) they are present. Subaru removed them in later years (2007 -2009).

There are people on this forum who are much more knowledgeable about these cars than I am. Ask questions, plenty of people can offer you excellent advice.

^ Is that because of what I've read where the turbo blows up and sends crap into the engine, possibly damaging the engine irreversibly?

Yes. The common "fix" even from the dealer for a blown turbo is to put on a new turbo. That unfortunately doesn't solve the crap in the engine problem.

Usually when a turbo blows it takes out the entire engine with it (usually, there are exceptions). Blown turbo in general = you need a new engine.

Read at least the first post to get an idea of what frequently happens and the steps to rebuild when the turbo goes:

http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/vf40-goes-kaboom-264096.html

I'm a pretty spirited driver, so I definitely prefer a faster car. It seems like the 2.5i does 0-60 in around a whole second slower than the 2.5gt, which is already slower than my G35 to 60.

 

I was looking around, and I did see this car (I'm linking it at the bottom because the link is long) with a brand new turbo, and pretty low miles overall. It will be across the country from me but I don't mind driving back across if the price is right.

 

When looking for a 2.5gt, is it better to look for one with a new turbo? I see a lot for sale with 150k-ish miles and my friend who is into subaru's says that in his experience that's around when the factory turbo will go if it hasn't been maintained perfectly well.

Since this is being sold at a car dealer I would avoid it because it has a new turbo. When the turbo fails it can send metal pieces throughout the engine. These metal pieces can be very difficult to completely remove thus remaining in the engine. At some point they can cause the engine to fail. There are a lot of people who bought one of these vehicles which had a new turbo and then, shortly afterwards, ended up needing to replace the engine.

Unless you can question the previous owner, which is very unlikely since it's for sale at a dealer, you have several options:

• Pass. Probably what most here will recommend
  
• Take it to a trusted mechanic to have it thoroughly inspected. Ensure you inform them of the new turbo so they'll know to do a more indepth inspection
  
• Buy and take the risk
  

Hmmmmm. Then that leaves me with a few questions.

1. I know that GT vs Spec B has been beat to death in terms of performance. But what about reliability? I know the Spec-B is a few grand more expensive off the bat, but will it last better because it's built on the STI drivetrain which is designed to withstand more power?

2. Getting a n/a 2.5i and then super or turbocharging it is pointless right? It just seems like you could make sure it hadn't had turbo failure issues before by doing that.

A pre-purchase inspection is always a great idea. Spend the money on one from a reputable Subaru shop (unless you have a mechanic you already trust). Ask about having a compression test performed.

 

Are Subaru dealerships best for this? I've had negative experiences with Infiniti dealerships but idk if subaru is better.

I'm a pretty spirited driver, so I definitely prefer a faster car. It seems like the 2.5i does 0-60 in around a whole second slower than the 2.5gt, which is already slower than my G35 to 60.

 

I was looking around, and I did see this car (I'm linking it at the bottom because the link is long) with a brand new turbo, and pretty low miles overall. It will be across the country from me but I don't mind driving back across if the price is right.

 

When looking for a 2.5gt, is it better to look for one with a new turbo? I see a lot for sale with 150k-ish miles and my friend who is into subaru's says that in his experience that's around when the factory turbo will go if it hasn't been maintained perfectly well.

 

 

 

https://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-sale/vehicledetails.xhtml?listingId=461920136&referrer=%2Fcars-for-sale%2Fsearchresults.xhtml%3FstartYear%3D2005%26numRecords%3D100%26sortBy%3DderivedpriceDESC%26incremental%3Dall%26firstRecord%3D0%26endYear%3D2009%26modelCodeList%3DLEGACY%26makeCodeList%3DSUB%26transmissionCodes%3DMAN&startYear=2005&numRecords=100&firstRecord=0&endYear=2009&modelCodeList=LEGACY&makeCodeList=SUB&makeCode1=SUB&modelCode1=LEGACY

It's wise to be very suspicious of Legacy GTs on used car lots with brand new turbos. People with failing turbos often trade the vehicle in, so the car ends up at auction and ultimately on a used car lot. A common problem is when the turbo fails, some metal particles from the turbo bearings can sometimes contaminate the oil. The 'glittery' oil can wreck the shortblock within 500 miles. So simply replacing the turbo is sometimes just a short term solution for what could be a much more expensive repair (new shortblock, $7k+ repair).

There are a few dozen horror stories of people buying vehicles with a new turbo that test drive nice, and then blow up a couple hours into their drive home.

Or you could be fine. Many turbos fail and are replaced, and life goes on. It depends on the failure, and how long the turbo was ran in bad shape. My LGT turbo failed and was replaced, and ran for years without issue.

EDIT: Lots of people beat me to it! Fast typers!

Hmmmmm. Then that leaves me with a few questions.

 

1. I know that GT vs Spec B has been beat to death in terms of performance. But what about reliability? I know the Spec-B is a few grand more expensive off the bat, but will it last better because it's built on the STI drivetrain which is designed to withstand more power?

I can't speak to the Spec B as I have absolutely zero experience with it. Having said that the issues with the turbo charged vehicle tend to be centered around the turbo aspects of the car. I've not read any real issues with the drivetrain or other major areas.

2. Getting a n/a 2.5i and then super or turbocharging it is pointless right? It just seems like you could make sure it hadn't had turbo failure issues before by doing that.

That is the general consensus. The cost to do so would easily exceed the cost of buying the turbocharged car to begin with. Anyone contemplating doing this will get the following advice: Sell the n/a and buy the GT.

Are Subaru dealerships best for this? I've had negative experiences with Infiniti dealerships but idk if subaru is better.

My experience is the type of experience one has at any dealership is based on the dealership and how it treats its customers. I've seen no rhyme or reason to if a dealer does / does not treat their customers well. I've had name brand dealers treat me great while others not so much. Same can be said with smaller dealerships.

There is no difference in reliability between same year GTs and Spec.Bs. Spec.Bs have a 6mt. That's basically it. Sure, it's a better gear box, but doesn't solve the issue of Turbo's blowing up.

If you are willing to turbo charge a 2.5i - you will run into all the same problems. Can the engine withstand the power, head gaskets etc. If you want to build a car, buy a blown up GT and have a trusted mechanic rebuild the engine.

You can get an exploded one for pretty cheap.

most reliable legacy is probably the 3.0R

As long as it's properly maintained. They are not bullet proof.

Only automatic though

The automatics are not that bad in these cars. My 3.0R is very quick and I love the way it shifts. The auto transmission is very similar to that of the Nissan G35. With the Hexmods updates, they are even better.

I'm late to the party here, but the simple answer is that the most reliable Legacy GTs are the ones that have been maintained, no matter what model year they are. Many owners have a tendency to neglect cars as they get older. They don't want to sink money in a car they may sell soon. Subarus are tough cars, but they don't tolerate neglect like say, a Honda or Toyota, would.

As far as getting N/A vs. Turbo, there is no comparison in performance and fun. The GT not only has much more power, it has better brakes, better steering, better suspension. Mine has a limited slip diff in the rear, which a lot of Legacies don't.

Another issue with the LGT is modding. When people exceed the limits designed into the stock car, long-term reliability suffers. Maybe a little, maybe a lot. It depends on the mods and how hard the previous owner has beat on the car. When you are evaluating a used car, it can be difficult to know the true history.

Really I think the best one of these is the 09 Spec B, next would be a 09 GT with a 5mt.

These cars need to taken off the factory tune ASAP, then maintained well. They also don't do well when driven for short distances and shut off. They need to be for at least 10 miles, the more highway miles the better.

Those of us with highway miles seem to have much fewer problems.

My 09 Spec will sit for weeks at a time, but when it's driven it gets at least 10 miles one way on the highway to dinner on Saturday nights. Both cars use great oil and fluids I do 7000 mile OCI but that's after Blackstone Labs said it was ok. Motul gear 300 is the best fluid for the 5 & 6MT's and diff's.

My 5mt has Moore Performance Blast Plates, best thing I every did for the tranny. It shift's so cleanly, much more Honda like.

There are a lot of small things that help these cars last, one is being active on this forum. Lot's of great info here.

Read the sticky's at the top of the forums, we reference them a lot.

When you see a link in someone's sig, take a look at it.

I'm late to the party here, but the simple answer is that the most reliable Legacy GTs are the ones that have been maintained, no matter what model year they are. Many owners have a tendency to neglect cars as they get older. They don't want to sink money in a car they may sell soon. Subarus are tough cars, but they don't tolerate neglect like say, a Honda or Toyota, would.

Makes perfect sense. It was a similar issue with my G35. It was my first car and I figured hey I was buying Japanese so there should be no problems but I was totally off. Sure it's a reliable car, but everything I do is super expensive.

As far as getting N/A vs. Turbo, there is no comparison in performance and fun. The GT not only has much more power, it has better brakes, better steering, better suspension. Mine has a limited slip diff in the rear, which a lot of Legacies don't.

I see in your sig that you have an 05 6MT. I'm leaning slightly towards the wagon as well. I figure I might as well have 1 car with a lot of cargo room.

Another issue with the LGT is modding. When people exceed the limits designed into the stock car, long-term reliability suffers. Maybe a little, maybe a lot. It depends on the mods and how hard the previous owner has beat on the car. When you are evaluating a used car, it can be difficult to know the true history.

I would hope to get a car that's mostly bone stock. However, I see tons of people selling the car with a Cobb tune. Is this common because the factory mapping is off?

You want one of these that has been off the OEM MAP as long as possible. the factory tune is not great.

My wagon has been on Cobb AP since it had 8000 miles on it, Dec 04. My Spec B was on Cobb AP when I bought it with 22,800 miles on it.

...I would hope to get a car that's mostly bone stock. However, I see tons of people selling the car with a Cobb tune. Is this common because the factory mapping is off?

Cobb offers off-the-shelf (OTS) tunes. Stage 1, Stage 2, etc. depending on what other aftermarket components are installed.

There is also a Cobb program where they have custom tunes (aka protunes) done by affiliate tuners.

Tuning and reliability of the tune is one of those subjects that people debate endlessly. The factory tuning has some flaws that seem to be related to achieving lower emissions, so it is not optimal.

P.S. I really like the wagon with manual trans. Unfortunately, Subaru only sold a few thousand in '05 and a few hundred in '06. You get a lot more versatility and I also think it is one of the nicer-looking cars Subaru has made.