Anyone tow a 3,000 lb boat with an Outback?

Okay,

 

So Subaru rates the outback 2.5i & 2.5XT to tow 2,700 lbs, and the Outback 3.0 to tow 3,000 lbs. So has anyone had any experience actually towing such loads with their Outback?!? I use to tow a 3,000 lb boat & Trailer with a Discovery (which was great), but have a hard time imagining towing such a load with an Outback? I was hoping someone with experience could weigh in. Thanks...

 

__________________

~Scott & Nadia

'05 Outback 2.5i Wagon

Willow Green Opal/ Moss Green Metallic

225/60HR16 Bridgestone G009's

All I can tell you is:

 

2800# boat and trailer + steep boat ramp + 2005 LGT 5MT = cloud of stinky clutch smoke, and no movement.

 

I think there was plenty of power there, but the clutch definitely was not up to the task. An automatic would probably have been fine.

 

That's all I got.....

Are you planning to tow locally, or long-haul?

 

In different markets Subaru gives tow ratings of up to 1,800kg (3,960 lbs) for the H6 and 1,500 KG (3,300) for the 2.5i and 2.5T. The US Subarus are geared lower (because the knuckle draggers only look at 0-60 time, not over-the-road performance) which should actually be better for towing. Not sure why the US numbers are so low. I'll get a trans cooler if I'm going on the road.

 

I just bought a Melges 24, which is probably 2,500 to 2,800 lbs on the trailer - don't know how much the trailer weighs. A friend of mine with an H6 towed a similar boat with no problems, and I don't anticipate any. I'm looking on another site to pick a hitch.

If you have an auto definitely get a tranny cooler. I had a 4 person waverunner I used to haul, maybe about 1200lbs no problem. Now I have 2 quads on a trailer and if not positioned right it sways badly. I have a sway control device I use, but the outback doesn't have enough weight to overcome it sometimes.

Id only attempt to see the limits of tow capacity if you have a automatic.

Are you planning to tow locally, or long-haul?

 

Well, I'd be doing both, if I were to use it as a tow vehicle. I have my concerns about the clutch, but mainly about vehicle stability. Europeans seem to routinely tow heavier loads than we do, with much smaller vehicles, but then there is also the liability issue if anything ever went wrong. Trailer brakes would be an obvious must, but I worry about the 'tail ruling the dog' syndrome..

 

I really don't think it is up for the challenge, but trying to either validate or invalidate my opinions..

 

__________________

~Scott & Nadia

'05 Outback 2.5i Wagon

Willow Green Opal/ Moss Green Metallic

225/60HR16 Bridgestone G009's

Towing a lot with a manual is tough. Or I should say, trying to back up a trailer with a manual, or pull a boat up from a ramp is tough.

 

People have towed J/24's - probably over 4,000 lbs - with Outbacks, but when possible I use our Chevy Express van, which has truck tires, heavy duty brakes, V8, 31 gallon fuel tank, big mirrors, etc.

 

Are you sure the trailer is 3,000 lb?

Towing a lot with a manual is tough. Or I should say, trying to back up a trailer with a manual, or pull a boat up from a ramp is tough.

 

Are you sure the trailer is 3,000 lb?

 

I can't stand automatics myself, don't own one, and never have. The ability to get the Outback with a manual is one of the primary reasons we bought it. I've always towed with a manual, but it was always a truck (most recently a Land Rover Discovery), with pretty stout components, and decent off idle torque figures...

 

GVWR on the trailer is 2990 lbs, boat dry weighs 2100, so when you figure in the trailer weight (steel) and fuel, yes, it is right at 3,000 lbs. Trailer GVWR (Boat is a Yamaha LS2000 whose trailer came with the boat, and was manufactured for Yamaha by Shorelander) was so the manufacturer didn't have to put brakes on it (most states in the US require trailer brakes over 3,000 lbs), but it would obviously need them for the Outback to have any chance of stopping safely when trailering.

 

__________________

~Scott & Nadia

'05 Outback 2.5i Wagon

Willow Green Opal/ Moss Green Metallic

225/60HR16 Bridgestone G009's

Now I have 2 quads on a trailer and if not positioned right it sways badly.

 

This isn't a problem with the tow vehicle, it's a problem with the load on the trailer. If the trailer's load is centered too far back (behind the trailer's axle), then the trailer will sway. Having a heavier vehicle with a longer wheelbase helps manage this, but the solution is proper loading.

 

I've towed big U-Haul trailers with my Impreza, and it's been non-issue. I didn't have to launch up a boat ramp, obviously, but I don't know how there would be any extra wear on the clutch, as long as you shift gears as gingerly as ever (which I did). Once you're in gear with the clutch engaged, what's the difference?

I don't have a transmission cooler or gauge, but my Impreza's oil temp wasn't any hotter at 80mph with a trailer than at 90mph without.

 

Ben

Oh I agree. Just saying it is way pickier. I will pull the large quad all the way up, but if it moves back while in tow I am in trouble.

I've towed big U-Haul trailers with my Impreza, and it's been non-issue. I didn't have to launch up a boat ramp, obviously, but I don't know how there would be any extra wear on the clutch, as long as you shift gears as gingerly as ever (which I did). Once you're in gear with the clutch engaged, what's the difference?

Ben

 

Once you are rolling, there is no additional wear on the clutch, but getting a 3,000 lbs load moving, particularly on any kind of incline (not to mention a boat ramp) is going to require slipping the clutch. With our Outback, even without a trailer, leaving a standing start on an incline requires some minor slipping of the clutch to get going without lurching or bogging down the engine (and bogging would mean stalled when you add 3,000 lbs behind you)...

 

__________________

~Scott & Nadia

'05 Outback 2.5i Wagon

Willow Green Opal/ Moss Green Metallic

225/60HR16 Bridgestone G009's

Wow... I'd never attempt anything near 3k lbs with my Outback, especially around the passes in Washington. Pulling our 3,500lb Mastercraft and trailer with our Hemi Ram can be bad enough going up inclines on the highway. Plus thats a huge stress on the brakes when you need to slow down. I warped my 4.7l Grand Cherokees rotors after pulling the boat 5 or so times 10 miles round trip.

The 2.5 automatic Outback has a towing limit in Europe of 1,800kg for a braked trailer - that's 3,969 lb in old money. Although the towbars are different between US and Europe, there aren't any other mechanical differences.

 

I tow a 1,250kg single-axle caravan (2,756 lb travel trailer) which handles fine cruising at 60 and not phased by overtakling at 70+. This is despite the low European noseweight limit of 82 kg (182 lb).

 

I don't understand why the idea of 2,700 lbs behind an Outback is even questioned.

///I don't understand why the idea of 2,700 lbs behind an Outback is even questioned.

Because he and many of the Legacy GT owners have manual transmissions? I note the 3.0R is rated for 2,000 KG (4,400 lbs) but I'm not going there....that's what the Chevrolet is for!

Self-levelling suspension - yes - but the same towing limits / noseweight limits apply here to Legacy Tourer which doesn't have self-levelling.

 

Low range transfer case - no - that's only on manual transmission cars in UK.

Because he and many of the Legacy GT owners have manual transmissions? I note the 3.0R is rated for 2,000 KG (4,400 lbs) but I'm not going there....that's what the Chevrolet is for!

For the UK, Outback maximum braked towing weights are :-

 

2.5 manual dual range 3,969 lb

 

2.5 automatic single range 3,969 lb

 

3.0 automatic single range 4,409 lb

If the UK manuals have low range, that's a different ball game than for US models.

I can only speak as I find.

 

I'm very comfortable towing 2,756 lb with an automatic with no low range - in Europe.

 

If I came to the US, I'd expect 2,700 lb behind a manual or automatic Outback, with no low range in either case, to tow slightly better than my outfit - the total weight would be marginally less and the tongue weight would be substantially more.

I think I replied to your post over on another forum. I have done a lot of boat towing over the years with my pickup trucks.

 

The key thing with towing a 3000 pound boat with an Outback will be to have the tongue weight set-up correctly. Boats generally have tongue weights of 5-7%, as compared to travel trailers which are typically 10% or more.

 

5-7% of 3000 is only 150-210 pounds, you can measure this with a bathroom scale, and these figures are within the Outbacks suggested tongue weight.

 

I would get your boat weighed on a certified scale (like at a truck stop) to make sure that it really does weigh only 3000 pounds all in. Additionally, I would add surge brakes to your trailer, you can get the parts at http://www.championtrailers.com/.

 

Good luck and let us now how you make out!

I note the 3.0R is rated for 2,000 KG (4,400 lbs) but I'm not going there....that's what the Chevrolet is for!

 

No offense intended, but this is typical American thinking regarding towing... "I need a big pick-up or a big SUV." Once you've been to Europe and seen 90hp VW Golfs towing Airstream campers, then towing really loses its mystique. It's only Americans who think that they need 300hp to tow anything...

 

And for the guy who warped the rotors on his SUV after towing just a couple times: This is clearly operator error. You simply cannot drive with a trailer like you would without a trailer. If you drive 10-20mph more slowly and maintain big following distances, then you're effectively negating the extra weight of the trailer in terms of stopping distances (and burden on the brakes).

 

Ben

No offense intended, but this is typical American thinking regarding towing... "I need a big pick-up or a big SUV." Once you've been to Europe and seen 90hp VW Golfs towing Airstream campers, then towing really loses its mystique. It's only Americans who think that they need 300hp to tow anything... //

Well, I lived in Germany for almost three years so I'm familiar with how they tow things. My only knowledge of towing in the UK was the First Gear segment on Caravan camping, which was quite funny. In they US they would have been ticketed in every jurisdiction they passed through.

 

The broadly observed rule of thumb here is that you can fairly readily tow a trailer that weighs as much as the vehicle - around 3,500 lbs for an OBW. Most manufacturers give a lower rating for manual shift cars. Ford trucks has a very detailed towing brochure that also takes into consideration frontal area and other factors.

 

What you seem unfamilar with is some of the towing conditions here, where summer temperatures may reach 100 degrees F and there's a nearly 2,000 foot elevation change from here to NY over the Appalachians (the Rockies and other ranges are much higher). Last year while towing our power boat to Maine in hot humid weather - with a v8 cargo van - I had to shut off the air conditioning and turn the heat on full blast to keep it from overheating. The OP lives in MD, which has notoriously hot, humid summers.

 

Sure you can tow with lighter vehicles - it's one of the reasons I got an H6 after having two H4's. But the larger, heavier vehicles can tow heavy loads without any decrease in longevity, and with almost the same mileage. Our Chevrolet Express van gets 14-15 mpg towing 3,000 lbs, has a 31 gallon fuel tank, large brakes, big mirrors, eight bolt rims, D load rating tires, tow/haul mode transmission, and auxiliary coolers galore. And it cost $20,511 brand new. It tows the Melges effortlessly.

 

I know people who have towed an Etchells - a 30' sailboat weighing around 4,500 lbs - from Boston to NY with a VW MicroBus. That doesn't mean it's a good idea.

No offense intended, but this is typical American thinking regarding towing... "I need a big pick-up or a big SUV." Once you've been to Europe and seen 90hp VW Golfs towing Airstream campers, then towing really loses its mystique. It's only Americans who think that they need 300hp to tow anything... Ben

 

 

Exactly! I had a 04 Tacoma(190hp) that was rated by Toyota for 5000lbs. I would regularly tow 7500lbs (car hauler/FJ40+other crap mostly) and sometimes up to 9000lbs. No problems stopping (trailer brakes), over heating (tranny cooler), sway, Nothing! Sure it was never a rocket(but is cruised at 65) and it sucked gas, but it got the job done.

 

I know people who have towed an Etchells - a 30' sailboat weighing around 4,500 lbs - from Boston to NY with a VW MicroBus. That doesn't mean it's a good idea.

 

Did it work? Then what is the problem. You just need to remember to take everything at a slower more direct pace when towing.

 

If you guys are really concerned about towing stuff go buy a CXT and be done with the worry of can I make or not. Just hook it up and see if it works, if not oh well, rent a diesel P/U.

All I can tell you is:

 

2800# boat and trailer + steep boat ramp + 2005 LGT 5MT = cloud of stinky clutch smoke, and no movement.

 

this is one scenario where you'd be better off with RWD, the only other way would be to make sure the ramp was wet and drop the clutch at 5k

Sure you can tow with lighter vehicles -But the larger, heavier vehicles can tow heavy loads without any decrease in longevity, and with almost the same mileage.

 

I agree, and if I already had a full-size van or pick-up, then I would use it to tow, instead of my Impreza. I don't doubt that trucks are better at towing, I just doubt that it's worth spending tens of thousands of dollars for the extra capability on the off chance that I might want to tow something heavy — like the OP asked about. Of course if I had to haul heavy loads on a daily basis, then I would buy a big truck. I'm amused at Americans who think that they "need" a full-size truck to ever tow anything.

 

Ben

You two must not be married. They "need" a big truck the way you "need" an LGT.