6MT Master Swap Thread

as long as you know who's working on your car.

qualified to do the work.

do the job properly without wasting your hard earned money.

That's a definite prerequisite.

I still go over all their work with a fine toothed comb.

I even found things wrong with the work done at TiC. No shop is going to have the attention to detail that I want.

6MT swap is a dead simple affair with OEM parts. Basically unbolt things, bolt up different things.

There is no question everything could be fucked (shops routinely **** up oil changes), but it really does not take a rocket science to do this.

The only unusual complication I can see is dealing with aftermarket DCCD controller, in case of a DCCD tranny.

Of course the key is planning to have all the needed parts, and details like neutral sensor or proper shifter linkage.

6MT swap is a dead simple affair with OEM parts. Basically unbolt things, bolt up different things.

 

There is no question everything could be fucked (shops routinely **** up oil changes), but it really does not take a rocket science to do this.

 

The only unusual complication I can see is dealing with aftermarket DCCD controller, in case of a DCCD tranny.

 

Of course the key is planning to have all the needed parts, and details like neutral sensor or proper shifter linkage.

Except for 5eat cars. you HAVE to modify the trans crossmember to fit the different bolt holes in the car. Also some dont have the cutouts for the clutch master cylinder so you have to drill them out.

Greetings! I'm swapping a USDM 2008 3.0R to 6mt. My transmission package (07 JDM Spec B) will be here this week and the swap happens in 4 weeks. Pedals are already installed.

Here's where I'm at on troubleshooting: Car runs with no rev limiter and TCU disconnected on the auto ECU and ROM. No CEL with P0600 disabled. I'm trying to figure out how to satisfy the ABS and VDC systems next - the lights won't go off and I can't figure out why. Maybe rear transmission speed sensor data is needed via CAN?

If any of you guys have a turbo 5EAT and wouldn't mind checking to see if your VDC and ABS lights stay on if you start it with your TCM disconnected, that might help. All the previous swaps have been Turbos and you guys have the manual/automatic pin on the ECU to change. I don't.

Cheers!

Peter

Greetings! I'm swapping a USDM 2008 3.0R to 6mt. My transmission package (07 JDM Spec B) will be here this week and the swap happens in 4 weeks. Pedals are already installed.

 

Here's where I'm at on troubleshooting: Car runs with no rev limiter and TCU disconnected on the auto ECU and ROM. No CEL with P0600 disabled. I'm trying to figure out how to satisfy the ABS and VDC systems next - the lights won't go off and I can't figure out why. Maybe rear transmission speed sensor data is needed via CAN?

 

If any of you guys have a turbo 5EAT and wouldn't mind checking to see if your VDC and ABS lights stay on if you start it with your TCM disconnected, that might help. All the previous swaps have been Turbos and you guys have the manual/automatic pin on the ECU to change. I don't.

 

 

 

 

Cheers!

Peter

You have to the flash ecu with a manual rom

You have to the flash ecu with a manual rom

We don't have a USDM manual ROM. If I can flash a LHD European ROM onto it that might work, as long as it doesn't remove emissions functionality. I'm hesitant to do that on my own car until I can verify on a test ECU that it flashes ok.

Edit: I just comparted USDM and Gen market ECU pins and it's 95% identical, but we have a couple of pins for gas tank pressure and emissions requirements nobody else does. If we flash a non-USDM ROM on it I'd probably lose that functionality if it even flashed ok. So the best solution is probably to treat it as a standalone market and write a manual ROM from the auto rom as needed.

Greetings! I'm swapping a USDM 2008 3.0R to 6mt. My transmission package (07 JDM Spec B) will be here this week and the swap happens in 4 weeks. Pedals are already installed.

 

Here's where I'm at on troubleshooting: Car runs with no rev limiter and TCU disconnected on the auto ECU and ROM. No CEL with P0600 disabled. I'm trying to figure out how to satisfy the ABS and VDC systems next - the lights won't go off and I can't figure out why. Maybe rear transmission speed sensor data is needed via CAN?

 

If any of you guys have a turbo 5EAT and wouldn't mind checking to see if your VDC and ABS lights stay on if you start it with your TCM disconnected, that might help. All the previous swaps have been Turbos and you guys have the manual/automatic pin on the ECU to change. I don't.

 

 

Cheers!

Peter

Just happened to look over this diagram searching for CAN bus wiring. looks like with TCM disconnected you may want to connect two pins to switch to MT from AT. Hopefully that's true and ECU is smart enough to figure thing out. Also attached PDF of this page. This is for 05 USDM Legacy.

ATtoMTWiringChange.pdf

Yes - however skipping the TCM can joint is the same as unplugging the TCM. There's no difference in converting a T to a -- if all you do is unplug one leg. The dangling leg doesn't do anything if it's there or not.

CAN is like a chatroom. Everyone can all talk and if one person is gone the others can still talk. The problem is when someone says "Hey has anyone heard from Gregg recently? He stopped talking."

We'll get it figured out I'm sure, just takes some time.

Dropped my car off for the swap today! Expecting it to take 3-20 days for the mechanical swap. Then I start working on ABS, VDC, and Cruise Control.

Canbus is mostly mapped out now for the 3.0R/5EAT. I'll get it all published when I get a chance, probably closer to summer. If anyone needs part lists, pinouts, canbus, etc before then let me know.

Where are you in Utah?

Salt Lake area.

Here's the decoded CANbus messages as far as I have found. If anyone knows any more please let me know.

This is for a 2008 Subaru Outback 3.0R LL Bean (USDM) with the factory 5EAT. A lot of this is the same as the Subiediesel archives and will most likely be the same for any of you with Legacy GTs and Outback XTs.

0x002 Steering angle sensor

Byte 0 and 1 - Steering angle, 16 bit, LSB, Signed.

0x070 Yaw/G sensor?

0x075 Yaw/G Sensor?

Byte 0 MSB as parity

Byte 1 Counter

0x410 ECU

Byte 0

Byte 1 – Engine torque?

Byte 2 – Transmission torque?

Byte 3-Torque loss?

Byte 4-Throttle (X100/255)

Byte 5 & 6– Engine RPM (Little endian, 16 bit)

0x411 ECU

Byte 5 - Memorized Cruise Control Speed

Byte 6 – Cruise control lights, Brake switch

0x412 ECU?

0x420 TCM

Byte 0 – Always 0x00

Byte 1 – Gear indicator – P=0x88, R=0x77, N=0x00, 1=0x11, 2=0x22, 3=0x33, 4=0x44, 5=0x55

Byte 2 – Some signal, usually around 0x81. Looks like a compensation signal that adjusts in for a second only after some long hard accelerations.

Bit 0 - some Solenoid Status? Bit 7 - On in D & R, off in P & N.

Byte 3 – Some transmission speed? Often around 0x28, drops to 0 when the vehicle stops.

Byte 4 – Turbine Revolution Speed, Peaks are chopped off of signal.

Byte 5 – Pilot valve pressure? – Fairly consistent signal that only changes in park. Usually 0x3F.

Byte 6 – Turbine slip? – Usually near 0. Signed 8 bit signal. Goes strongly positive at WOT, strongly negative during engine braking.

Byte 7 – Unknown – Always 0x87.

0x421 TCM

Byte 0 – DC Solenoid valve pressure? – Some kind of active 0-255 signal, during WOT pull it pegs at 255 then sags in middle of pull. Sometimes seems to mirror engine RPM.

Byte 1 – Engine torque reduction request signal. Signal blips after some shifts.

Byte 2 – Always 0x00

Byte 3 – Counter, seems to trigger 0x501 counter but not 0x75 counter.

Byte 4 – Always 0x00

Byte 5 – Unknown, seems unrelated to anything. Bits 0-3 may be for rev matching.

Byte 6 – Throttle blip for rev matching (Timing blip too?)

Byte 7 – Throttle blip for rev matching. (Timing blip too?)

0x422 TCM

Byte 0 – Unknown, 0x44 when engine is off, 0x00 when engine is on.

Byte 1 – Individual bit signals? Byte is normally 0x00. Bit 6 is the prohibited downshift signal.

Byte 2 – Gear selector – P=0x07, R=0x06, N=0x05, D=0x04, M=0x08

Byte 3 – Unknown, some toothed signal.

Byte 4 – Unknown, some toothed signal.

Byte 5 – ATF Temperature? 0x7C to 0x82 is frequently seen.

Byte 6 – Always 0x00

Byte 7 – Unknown, almost always 0x00.

0x501 VDC/ABS? (Torque, flags?)

0x511 VDC/ABS? (Steering angle?)

0x512 VDC/ABS? (Flags?)

0x513 VDC/ABS Wheel Speeds

0x514 BIU?

0x576 ???

0x600 ECU (Coolant lights?)

0x601 ???

0x620 BIU/ AC?

0x7E1 Tactrix Openport (Connected on OBD2 port)

0x7E9 Tactrix Openport (Connected on OBD2 port)

I also made a .DBC file (maps the signals to the CAN data in whatever can viewer you're using). If anyone wants it let me know.

Update: Apparently there are USDM vs JDM differences on the 3.0R with exhaust routing, hangers, etc.

The shop finishing the mechanicals of the swap has found/resolved several items:

First, there's a reservoir/damper/metal line on the clutch master cylinder that only 6MTs have. Apparently it runs up along the firewall somewhere - and I missed it on my parts list and the junkyard outback 5MT I got some parts from didn't have it either. So that's a last-minute order from Subaru to get installed.

Second, The transmission exhaust mounts and routing was slightly different between my 07 JDM legacy 3.0R 6MT transmission and my old 08 USDM 3.0R 5EAT outback setup. Apparently the shop made some adjustments to several of the hangers and trimmed something and now it fits nicely. I suspect the JDM exhaust runs apart farther back than the USDM exhaust. No idea why unless it's a USDM emissions thing.

Lastly, The driveshaft is a JDM legacy 6mt driveshaft and is installed on the outback - and apparently fits at a more appropriate angle without being spaced down like the outback driveshaft was. (I have a 1/2" lift on a stock 3.0R outback). They said if I need to space it down more it may rub on the heat shield.

It should be all wrapped up in about a week once the clutch damper gets in and I can get some pictures and start on CANbus fuzzing to correct ABS/VDC/Cruise issues.

I am rather confused by your master cylinder issue. In a 5MT to 6MT conversion, you don't mess with the master cylinder at all... you just connect it to the new 6MT slave.

This is a 5EAT H6 to 6MT H6 conversion. The clutch master cylinder is replacing a rubber plug, so I'm starting from scratch. Either way - I'll figure out the part number from the shop and add it to my needed parts list for the next person.

Manual and automatic cars usually have a difference with the exhaust mounting since the support bracket is in different places. Not really a usdm/jdm thing

That makes sense! Because the transmission donor was a manual (jdm 3.0R) and my exhaust is from a automatic. Thank you!

I recently put a '16 STI motor in my '05 Outback XT and now I need a new clutch.

I can get the 6mt, R180, and lots of other parts from from teh same source the engine came from.

Does anyone know if there are changes to a '16 6MT that would affect the swap?

Thanks!

I'm about to try swapping a 2019 WRX 6MT into my 06 Legacy GT sedan. It's supposed to Bolt right on but I foresee a bit of challenge to fully integrate the shifter's trim inside the car.

We'll see.

I'm about to try swapping a 2019 WRX 6MT into my 06 Legacy GT sedan. It's supposed to Bolt right on but I foresee a bit of challenge to fully integrate the shifter's trim inside the car.

 

We'll see.

The Legacy shifter has a different length stay and shifter assembly than the WRX - so you'll probably need the shifter assembly from a Legacy Spec B then you should be good to go.

I got my H6/6MT back from the shop! It's fantastic! The STI clutch/LGT Dual mass flywheel bites hard and the H6 feels torquey so it's taking some getting used to but I love it! It's got a real nice whine in 1st and 2nd.

I also tried feeding 0x420 and 0x421 to the CANBUS and got ABS/VDC to work off the laptop. Cruise now powers up but does not set. I still have a lot of work to do on the Canbus and center console switches so I think that might be the ticket.

I am chasing a noise issue though - There's a little bit of a light tap sound when I start moving, and I'm not sure what it is. It's a single tap and doesn't repeat until the next time I start. In 2nd gear if I go on/off on/off the throttle I can get it to repeat a little. It generally happens under light acceleration and occasionally over a bump. Turning doesn't seem to influence it. It might be exhaust or driveshaft related? Clearances in that area are pretty tight... They had to remove the center exhaust hanger when it was installed.

The shop that installed it said they had trouble with the tranny hitting the tunnel on hard acceleration so they played with the pitch stop mount and it isn't an issue since. I doubt that's related since that was a hard acceleration issue but it's possible?

Also, one of my new front CV axles is throwing grease on the exhaust. Are the front Spec B CV axles interchangeable with the 5EAT axles?

Nice! Ultimately I want to have H6 dropped in my LGT when YNANSB time comes.

AS for tapping it can be either a dog bone (pitch stop), engine mounts or loose top hats nuts on front shocks. The nuts on top hats got a bit loose on Tribeca once which produced that light single tap sound when revving very lightly while parked.

I believe the front axles are all the same between EAT and MTs (both 5MT and 6MT). But I might be wrong.

"It can't be done"

"Canbus is too complicated"

"Cruise will never work"

"No cruise control"

"The H6 will never be a manual, forget it."

"You have to use a JDM 3.0R ECU and harness"

"But you'll lose cruise"

Well, Cruise ran yesterday after 4 evenings of working on Canbus. It holds and adjusts speed with confidence and authority. VDC and ABS are running too. I'm using a laptop and an EVTVdue (arduino designed to hack Tesla Canbus) right now to send 0x420, 0x421, and 0x422 packet loop but the laptop will be gone soon and the EVTVdue will do it on it's own. We're almost there!

2008 Outback 3.0R 6MT with USDM auto ECU and ROM and TCM replaced with EVTVdue/GVRET/Laptop.

Really awesome work!

I always thought ditching the H4 turbo banger for H6 would be awesome in the Leggy wagon, but 6MT would be a must.

Awesome!

BrandonspecB, Whereabouts are you located? I'm in Sandy. Would love to get together and see your 3.0R at some point.