Good way to start the day

Well, my ‘08 legacy, N/A ej253 with 225,xxx miles is gonna need some work. woke up to some slurry under the rad cap. If I pull my heads off to do the head gaskets, what parts should be replaced at that mileage, or should I just go off of how stuff looks? Don’t have much money to play with right now so cheaper options are best. And are there any recommendations for higher quality head gaskets with a link? Thank you

Also, I had posted a thread a while ago trying to figure out a cylinder 2 misfire, I had changed the plugs, wires, coils, injectors, vacuum & compression test, MAF, and still couldn’t find the cause. What are the chances that the bad head gasket could be the culprit? or should I look at anything else for possible causes of misfiring while I have the engine out and open?

That's interesting, one of the very few coolant related head gasket failures I've read about on here for our non-turbo 4th gens. I wonder if your current head gaskets are oem, or if they've been replaced.

Edit: I'm an idiot, you made a gallery here. I attached a pic of your cap, hope you don't mind.

Edit 2: I also forgot about this.. I was thinking your car was running the stock head gaskets from the factory when I mentioned in another thread that coolant head gasket failures are not common on our cars. If someone rebuilt it, all bets are off, anything is possible. Sorry about that, I wasn't thinking.

I bought an ‘08 legacy, with a 2.5i naturally aspirated engine with 200,000 miles on it, the guy I bought it from said it was rebuilt around 70,000 miles ago and had pictures of it in the process apparently.

Edit 3 (I'm tired): You're MT, I would replace the clutch, or at the very least the throw out bearing.

That's interesting, one of the very few coolant related head gasket failures I've read about on here for our non-turbo 4th gens. I wonder if your current head gaskets are oem, or if they've been replaced.

Edit: I'm an idiot, you made a gallery here. I attached a pic of your cap, hope you don't mind.

Edit 2: I also forgot about this.. I was thinking your car was running the stock head gaskets from the factory when I mentioned in another thread that coolant head gasket failures are not common on our cars. If someone rebuilt it, all bets are off, anything is possible. Sorry about that, I wasn't thinking.

Edit 3 (I'm tired): You're MT, I would replace the clutch, or at the very least the throw out bearing.

Yeah, the guy I bought it from said he rebuilt the engine approximately 70k miles ago, so I figured something got messed up or he used a low quality head gasket, although now I’m wondering if maybe the heads or block need some work cause if they’re messed up where the gasket goes it could ruin said gaskets. And I don’t mind, I tried to upload myself but it wasn’t working so thank you! And so far I have 2 head gaskets, 2 intake & 2 exhaust gaskets, and head bolts. If I remember correctly the previous owner replaced the throwout bearing with a stainless one, instead of aluminum, I was wondering about the clutch though, that would probably be a good idea. Thanks for the input! I was losing coolant with no visible leaks so I was about to put UV dye in the radiator when I saw the slurry

Sounds like he installed a PDM USA TSK1 repair sleeve, or he could've gone with a clutch kit that includes the repair sleeve and larger throwout bearing, one example of that is in the first link below. Either way, good to know you'll need a larger throwout bearing, I'd look at yours for a part number or something.

https://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo.php?pk=2302830&cc=1440455&jsn=838

Repair sleeve

Edit: Because you know, I edit damn near every reply I make. If your clutch and throwout bearing has 70k on it, please, please replace the bearing.. It would be a huge mistake not to.

Sounds like he installed a PDM USA TSK1 repair sleeve, or he could've gone with a clutch kit that includes the repair sleeve and larger throwout bearing, one example of that is in the first link below. Either way, good to know you'll need a larger throwout bearing, I'd look at yours for a part number or something.

 

https://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo.php?pk=2302830&cc=1440455&jsn=838

 

Repair sleeve

 

Edit: Because you know, I edit damn near every reply I make. If your clutch and throwout bearing has 70k on it, please, please replace the bearing.. It would be a huge mistake not to.

Is that a clutch, a sleeve, and a bearing in that kit? If so that’s not a bad price at all if it’s good quality. So for head, exhaust, & intake gaskets, head bolts, plus that clutch & T bearing puts me at $397 total and a day or two of work. Not including cherry picker rental. That’s totally do-able for me

Edit: I was looking at Napa for the gaskets, best looking ones were FelPro, are those good? Or is there a different brand that’d be better?

Oh yeah, and what do you think the likelyhood of the head gasket causing my cylinder 2 misfire is? Has new plugs, wires, coils, injector, MAF, and a compression test and good vacuum test.

And last question, if my compression is as following, (Cyl #1: 180psi, Cyl #2: 197psi, Cyl #3: 175psi, Cyl #4: 205psi) should I do a leak down? have my valves adjusted? or is there something else I should do to make sure everything is in order while it’s taken apart? Can you physically tell if there is something amiss with the pistons/rings?

I'm surprised no one else has replied yet, all of this is a little outside my comfort zone so that's why I'm not answering your other questions.

But yeah, that clutch kit includes everything, wouldn't be a bad idea to replace it all. I've heard sachs is who makes subaru clutches and a lot of other oem clutches, so I'd trust them.

The other questionable thing is your timing belt, tensioner, and idlers.

Edit: You know, because I'm me. When I had my clutch last replaced at around 230k by subaru, they told me my clutch fork was cracked. Seems to be somewhat common with age from what I've read. Wouldn't hurt to have another clutch fork on hand just in case, from somewhere that will let you return it if you don't need it.

Replacing the pilot bearing might not be a bad idea, either. I just had one go out at about 50k.

After 70k on what appears to be a shoddy rebuild, replacing the timing belt, tensioner, idlers, and water pump might also be a good idea.

If you can swing it, keeping with OEM Subaru gaskets will be your best bet, especially with the head gaskets, but FelPro will get you by for the others.

As far as the misfire, it definitely wouldn't hurt to do a leakdown test, but when you pull the heads off, you should take them to a good machine shop and have them checked for flatness and valve lash adjusted.

Just my 2 cents. It's hard to do something right on these cars for cheap...

Replacing the pilot bearing might not be a bad idea, either. I just had one go out at about 50k.

 

After 70k on what appears to be a shoddy rebuild, replacing the timing belt, tensioner, idlers, and water pump might also be a good idea.

 

If you can swing it, keeping with OEM Subaru gaskets will be your best bet, especially with the head gaskets, but FelPro will get you by for the others.

 

As far as the misfire, it definitely wouldn't hurt to do a leakdown test, but when you pull the heads off, you should take them to a good machine shop and have them checked for flatness and valve lash adjusted.

 

Just my 2 cents. It's hard to do something right on these cars for cheap...

Thank you a ton for the help. It’s my first subaru and the first car I’ve owned that I’m willing to fix a head gasket on, so I’d like to do it correctly, even if it takes a little more $. Do you know what brand makes the OEM head gaskets? And does the clutch fork need to be OEM also, or what brands would be good for that And I was planning on taking my heads in to a machine shop to at least check the flatness, and possibly port and polish them.

Oh, and excuse my ignorance, but what is a pilot bearing?

And I guess it would be better for me to ask where you can find what brands are OEM for each part so I don’t have to ask that question about each and every part individually.

I know those questions weren't directed at me, but I'm bored and I like to help.

The pilot bearing is the little bearing that sits inside the center of the flywheel. Youtube is a great resource too

Flywheel + Pilot bearing

Wait until the timing belt is a little loose before removing the timing belt tensioner with the blue bearing

Lubing clutch fork (Page 3)

https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/tsbs/2018/MC-10150949-9999.pdf

Guy in the video is a subaru technician, he makes some recommendations on head gaskets (six star, felpro), though the video is about 8 years old. I'll still link to it since other parts could be helpful.

From what I understand about head gaskets.. The 2005-2009 non-turbo legacies had issues with external oil leaks. From what I remember reading, that's because the oem subaru gaskets (at the time of assembly, I'm not sure if they've been changed/updated) were graphite coated, and the graphite coating wears away over time, creating leaks.

Edit: I wonder if a kit like this would be your best bet, includes all the gaskets you'll need, like head gaskets, intake manifold gaskets, exhaust to head gaskets, valve cover gaskets, coolant crossover pipe o-rings, and more. https://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo.php?pk=4715661&cc=1440455&jsn=869

Yeap, apexi beat me to it. I would get a kit like he suggested. Here the same one is on Amazon for a dollar less. https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00FADEIF0/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_fabc_0V9G87DNTYS4EGFH3FBS

Definitely replace the head bolts with it.

As for the machine shop, there is literally no reason to have them port and polish. Just check for flatness and adjust the valve lash, and a good clean.

Yeap, apexi beat me to it. I would get a kit like he suggested. Here the same one is on Amazon for a dollar less. https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00FADEIF0/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_fabc_0V9G87DNTYS4EGFH3FBS

Definitely replace the head bolts with it.

 

As for the machine shop, there is literally no reason to have them port and polish. Just check for flatness and adjust the valve lash, and a good clean.

Oh, I figured it wouldn’t make much difference but I kinda wanted to upgrade it a little, I guess I should wait and get an engine with less miles first before doing stuff like that lol

I know those questions weren't directed at me, but I'm bored and I like to help.

 

The pilot bearing is the little bearing that sits inside the center of the flywheel. Youtube is a great resource too

 

Flywheel + Pilot bearing

 

Wait until the timing belt is a little loose before removing the timing belt tensioner with the blue bearing

 

Lubing clutch fork (Page 3)

https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/tsbs/2018/MC-10150949-9999.pdf

 

Guy in the video is a subaru technician, he makes some recommendations on head gaskets (six star, felpro), though the video is about 8 years old. I'll still link to it since other parts could be helpful.

 

From what I understand about head gaskets.. The 2005-2009 non-turbo legacies had issues with external oil leaks. From what I remember reading, that's because the oem subaru gaskets (at the time of assembly, I'm not sure if they've been changed/updated) were graphite coated, and the graphite coating wears away over time, creating leaks.

 

Edit: I wonder if a kit like this would be your best bet, includes all the gaskets you'll need, like head gaskets, intake manifold gaskets, exhaust to head gaskets, valve cover gaskets, coolant crossover pipe o-rings, and more. https://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo.php?pk=4715661&cc=1440455&jsn=869

Oh not a problem, I appreciate all the advice I can get. And I’ll definitely check out those links, so thank you! Do you happen to know where to find the OEM brands for all the different parts? Also where do you find the torque specs for the engine so I know it’s done right?

And oh yeah, I was looking as one of those kits originally, buy then if I wanted a different brand of head gaskets I’d end up having to pay for a second set. I have yet to decide which brand, I think that youtube link will help me with that. The head gaskets, head bolts, and clutch are the 3 parts I really wanna be careful with and figure out the best brands before I slap whatever I get on there.

So guys, Idk if anybody’s going to see this or not, but I just pulled my engine today, took the heads off, going to take them into a machine shop tomorrow after work. He’s going to clean them, pressure and vacuum test them, and if they’re all good then he’s going to make sure they’ve got a good surface on them for new head gaskets. I ordered that Felpro head gasket kit from Rock Auto, but the new MLS head gaskets are separated. Like they’re held together in the corners with the rivets, but the layers aren’t stuck together. I was wondering if that’s normal. Also, the failed head gaskets that I removed are also Felpro, and appear to be the same exact gaskets I just bought, and these ones failed after 60k-70k miles. I can see the blue coating starting to chip and peel on the old ones. I’m going to ask the machine shop to let me know if the heads were in fact warped, but if they aren’t warped, I’m wondering if it’s wise to put the same gaskets back on there. (if the heads ARE warped, that could explain the failure). I saw a video on youtube (I’ll link it at the end) where he said the permanent head gasket fix is to use the MLS subaru gaskets, and that they don’t have a coating that will peel off and ruin the seal. I don’t want to have to do this job again in less than 100k miles, so I wanna know what you guys think. Appreciate it in advance.

Youtube video:

Skip to 10:45

The separation is normal. I would absolutely go with a newer style Subaru MLS gasket before a FelPro. Cometic is also a good option, I've read.

Cool thank you. I was going to call Subaru tomorrow and see how much they are. Hopefully they aren’t super expensive since I already bought a gasket kit for $200

Cool thank you. I was going to call Subaru tomorrow and see how much they are. Hopefully they aren’t super expensive since I already bought a gasket kit for $200

Here's a link to some for $73. Should be cheaper than how much you'll get them for from the dealer.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/2-OEM-Subaru-Head-Gaskets-2-5-SOHC-1999-Up-Legacy-Forester-Outback-Impreza-SET/133261805520?fits=Year%3A2004%7CModel%3AForester%7CSubmodel%3AX%7CEngine+-+Liter_Display%3A2.5L%7CMake%3ASubaru&epid=1111290098&hash=item1f0705c7d0:g:FdoAAOSwv0tU6MsY

They're $51 ea at my closest dealership.

Here's a link to some for $73. Should be cheaper than how much you'll get them for from the dealer.

 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/2-OEM-Subaru-Head-Gaskets-2-5-SOHC-1999-Up-Legacy-Forester-Outback-Impreza-SET/133261805520?fits=Year%3A2004%7CModel%3AForester%7CSubmodel%3AX%7CEngine+-+Liter_Display%3A2.5L%7CMake%3ASubaru&epid=1111290098&hash=item1f0705c7d0:g:FdoAAOSwv0tU6MsY

 

They're $51 ea at my closest dealership.

Oh thank you! I didn’t see this till after I already picked them up at the dealership, they were $70 each, but oh well. I had another question, when I took my heads off, I rolled one over onto the rocker assembly to drain it without thinking about it. How easy/hard is it to knock the valves out of adjustment? Should I adjust valve lash myself anyways even if they were already correctly adjusted? And is it easy enough for me to do it for my first time ever messing with valves?

Do NOT buy headbolts. Spend the little bit extra and buy ARP head studs. Read their directions and follow them carefully and it will make sure you don't have head gasket issues in the future. OE or Victor Reinz gaskets-complete set. Have the heads decked and pressure tested. If they hold pressure, you're good to go on valves. If not, then it becomes a bit more expensive, but worth it for the piece of mind. A good shop will set the lash for you and make it easier to put them on.

Replace the pilot bushing in the back of the crankshaft (rent a tool to pull it out or use grease to push it out), Clutch, TO bearing, sleeve if needed, and make sure you have everything CLEAN before taking anything apart. Pull the engine, put on a stand ($70 at Harbor Freight) and pressure wash the entire assembly (tape off the throttle body or put a cap on it and tape it) and then use a leaf blower to dry it all off completely. Also check the oil pickup tube for cracks while resealing the oil pan.

While you have it apart, change the front crank seal, and check all vacuum hoses and vent hoses as those will cause you serious grief if they leak after you put it all back together and in the car.

If you have another car to drive, make sure and take your time. Double check everything, torque as spec'd, and be careful not to break any bolts (Subaru has crappy quality bolts in most of the applications on the engine). If anything seems like it's going to break, it probably will so soak everything with PB or some other penetrating oil before you begin to disassemble.

Clean all parts inside and out including valve covers, oil pan, and make sure there is no crap in the intake.

You can do this-these engines are very simple once apart, and once finished with quality parts and your own hands, you'll be in good shape.

Oh thank you! I didn’t see this till after I already picked them up at the dealership, they were $70 each, but oh well. I had another question, when I took my heads off, I rolled one over onto the rocker assembly to drain it without thinking about it. How easy/hard is it to knock the valves out of adjustment? Should I adjust valve lash myself anyways even if they were already correctly adjusted? And is it easy enough for me to do it for my first time ever messing with valves?

You should check the valve lash after installing the heads anyhow because the heads can twist ever so slightly when being installed causing the lash to be off.

I was going to write a reply recommending the pilot bearing I picked up at napa, instead of the no-name one that came in my exedy kit. However after doing some quick research just now, as usual, it seems like OEM is the best choice.

My oem flywheel that I removed from the car has an oem subaru Nachi 6201NKE bearing in it, just like the guy in the link below. The bearing I picked up at my local napa for $6 is a Nachi 6201NSE. Seems like the NSE I have isn't the best choice for a flywheel (the nachi box even says pilot bearing on it), but.. I'm not going to lose any sleep over it. If ACT includes the nse in their kits, I can't imagine it being that bad. Anyway, just wanted to post this because I thought it was kind of interesting, a little primer on pilot bearings and any codes you might see stamped on them. Different brands might have different codes, but the the characteristics are still the same.

http://subarufansofcentralpa.blogspot.com/2018/05/everyone-tries-to-save-money-or-at.html