2.5 Stick Posted May 12, 2009 Share Posted May 12, 2009 I'm going to get the dash kit and replace the head unit in my '09 2.5i MT. I'm going to use a new Pioneer/Alpine/or Kenwood flip out. I'm not going to get a 4 Channel amp, instead I will use the flip out's built in amp and set the Hi-Pass Filter so I don't get bass to my door speakers. I won't change the Harman Kardon interior speakers. I will connect a Kicker Mono Class-D amp to the sub-out on the head unit and that amp will connect to my Kicker L7 single Sub. My question is, the harness that they are selling @ Crutchfield, will it by pass the Harman Kardon amp under my pass. seat? This was the set up I had on my Mazda CX-7, but with a different head unit that had built-in High Pass Filters. The stock H/K system sounds good for most modern music, but last wk I started noticing distortion from OEM HK sub already. I know how to install myself...I upgraded the new CX-7 my self, that dash kit was easy to install, hopefully same for new Legacy? So, which wire harness will be ideal for my set-up? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zmarko Posted May 12, 2009 Share Posted May 12, 2009 Not sure about it bypassing your amp (I doubt the kit from crutchfield does). I'll assume you have the manual (non automatic) climate controls? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SVXdc Posted May 19, 2009 Share Posted May 19, 2009 '08 and '09 still use the same older-style 14-pin connector for speakers and power as previous Subarus. If you're keeping the H/K amp, that should be all you need. In the H/K system, the HU's 4 speaker outputs go to the H/K amp. The amp drives all of the car's speakers and subs (6 separate speaker outputs for the four doors and two tweeters, plus 2 outputs for the sub [the sedan's sub uses only 1 of the 2, the wagon's sub uses both]). There's no line-level umbilical between the HU and amp like on the McIntosh system. Since you're dumping the OEM sub, you'll need to disconnect it from the H/K amp. When you start taking everything apart, could you please post some clear, close-up pictures of the new connectors on the H/K amp? I'd like to check if there are any existing radio harnesses that will fit them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2.5 Stick Posted May 19, 2009 Author Share Posted May 19, 2009 Will take pics. Thnks for the HU to H/K amp info. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peteyjr Posted May 20, 2009 Share Posted May 20, 2009 SVDX , you are the guru. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markc0220k Posted July 17, 2009 Share Posted July 17, 2009 do not totally "bypass" your oem amp (assuming you are talking the amp underneath the psg side seat), it (R316-B11) has wire it goes to your VDC/ ABS control module and GND. i'm doing the same thing like you too. but i'm going to only bypass those 4 outputs from HU (FL/FR, RL/RR). mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SVXdc Posted July 18, 2009 Share Posted July 18, 2009 (edited) I've recently studied the 2009 wiring diagrams more thoroughly, and also realized I didn't fully answer the OP's question... My question is, will [a Subaru 14-pin radio installation harness] by pass the Harman Kardon amp under my pass. seat? ... So, which wire harness will be ideal for my set-up? A 14-pin radio harness will let you install a new HU, but will send the HU's 4 speaker outputs to the H/K amp. To bypass the H/K amp, you will need 2 or 3 additional harnesses. After you unplug the three harnesses from the H/K amp, you can either A) Connect from the H/K amp's input harness (signals from the HU) directly to the two output harnesses (on to the speakers). Note that the H/K amp has 8 outputs (4 doors, 2 tweeters, and dual sub). Probably no HU can drive them all from just 4 outputs. B) Run new speaker output wires from the HU (skipping those wires on the 14-pin install harness) and connect those directly to the H/K amp's two output harnessesAlternatively, you can skip all of the H/K amp's harnesses and...C) Run new speaker output wires from the HU directly to the speakersOf course, you can also insert your own aftermarket amp anywhere in the above scenarios. The existing power connections for the H/K amp under the seat may be adequate for a not-too-large amp (the H/K amp is supposedly 440 W). See the next post for pin-outs of the three harnesses. Edited July 18, 2009 by SVXdc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SVXdc Posted July 18, 2009 Share Posted July 18, 2009 (edited) Here are the pin-outs for the three harnesses on the 2009 and 2010 harman/kardon amplifier. Each of these pin orientations is viewing the pins side of the car's harness (wires pointing away from you). For the socket on the amp, you'll need to mirror the numbers horizontally (e.g., 12, 11, 10, etc.). Looking at the rear of the amp, the connectors from left to right are: R315, R317 (blue), R316 Harness R316 (2009) R386 (2010-2012): Inputs into the h/k amp (from the HU's four speaker outputs) ____ | | 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 Harness R316 (2009): Pin Function --- -------------------- 1 (NC) 2 Front Left Door – (from HU pin 9) 3 Front Left Door + (from HU pin 3) 4 Front Right Door – (from HU pin 8) 5 Front Right Door + (from HU pin 2) 6 Shield for speaker inputs 7 (NC) 8 (NC) 9 (NC) 10 Ground 11 VSS input (for SVC) 12 +12V Accessory (for h/k amp remote turn-on) 13 (NC) 14 (NC) 15 (NC) 16 (NC) 17 Rear Left Door – (from HU pin 13) 18 Rear Left Door + (from HU pin 5) 19 (NC) 20 (NC) 21 (NC) 22 Rear Right Door – (from HU pin 12) 23 Rear Right Door + (from HU pin 4) 24 (NC) Harness R386 (2010-2011, and 2012)Pin Function --- -------------------- 1 (NC) 2 Front Left Door – (from HU pin 7) 3 Front Left Door + (from HU pin 8) 4 Front Right Door – (from HU pin 17) 5 Front Right Door + (from HU pin 18) 6 Shield for speaker inputs 7 (NC) 8 (NC) 9 (NC) 10 Ground 11 VSS input (for SVC) 12 Amp remote turn-on 13 (NC) 14 (NC) 15 (NC) 16 (NC) 17 Rear Left Door – (from HU pin 5) 18 Rear Left Door + (from HU pin 6) 19 (NC) 20 (NC) 21 (NC) 22 Rear Right Door – (from HU pin 15) 23 Rear Right Door + (from HU pin 16) 24 (NC) NC: No pin/wire at this position SVC: Speed-Sensitive Auto Volume Control Lots of no-connects here. Could any be line-inputs on the 2009 amp? Perhaps someone who's willing to open up their amp can look to see if any of those pins have circuit board traces that go anywhere. [ADDED: Judging from the PC board, apparently not. Some may be for programming the DSP at the h/k factory.] UPDATE: The 2009 HU has an amp IC (so it does send high-level or speaker-level signals to the amp), but the HU's output impedance is 10K Ohms instead of 4- or 8 Ohms. Somewhere, Subaru may have a 2009 model with this HU connected directly to speakers (no h/k amp). In 2010-2011 models, the interconnect cables between OEM HU and h/k amp are now shielded. The HUs do still send high-level (amplified) signals to the amp. But people who have installed aftermarket HUs have found that the h/k amp is happier when you send it line-level signals. 2010-2011 HUs also have a pin for amp remote turn-on (though it seems to turn on and off the same as the car's +12V ACC power -- in other words, it stays on even when you switch the HU to "audio off" mode). In 2012-up models with the h/k system, the HU has different harnesses, but the h/k amp has the same connectors and pin-outs as 2010-2011. Harness R315 (2009) R317 (2010-2011): Outputs to the tweeters and subwoofer __ 1 2 3 | | 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 Pin Function --- -------------------- 1 Front Right Tweeter A 2 Front Right Tweeter B 3 Front Left Tweeter A 4 Subwoofer 1 A 5 Subwoofer 2 A 6 Ground 7 Ground 8 (NC) 9 Front Left Tweeter B 10 Subwoofer 1 B 11 (NC) 12 Subwoofer 2 B NC: No pin/wire at this position A/B: Speaker polarities: Rickycc confirmed that the A's are (+) and B's are (–). I'd like to get verification from a second person (and pictures of the speakers and their harnesses would be great, too). Subwoofer 1/2: 2009 Legacy sedan has a single voicecoil sub (driven from Sub 1 only). All 2009-up Outback wagon and 2010-up Legacy sedans have a larger dual voicecoil sub (driven from Sub outputs 1 and 2). Harness R317 (2009, blue) R316 (2010-2011): Outputs to the four door speakers __ 1 2 | | 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 Pin Function --- -------------------- 1 [color=Red]+12V Battery[/color] 2 Rear Left Door(+) 3 Front Right Door(+) 4 Front Left Door(+) 5 [color=Red]+12V Battery[/color] 6 Rear Left Door(-) 7 Rear Right Door(+) 8 Rear Right Door(-) 9 Front Right Door(-) 10 Front Left Door(-) Note that R317(2009)/R316(2010-up) (the blue harness) provides the main +12V power on two pins. R315(2009)/R317(2010-up) appears to have the main grounds (two pins). UPDATED: Thank you, Rickycc, for verifying the speaker wire polarities. I've heard from one other person who verified the 4 door speakers. I'd still like to get confirmation from a second person on the tweeters and subwoofer. If anyone opens up their speakers, please let me know which wire colors go to +/–, so I can update the pin-out tables with the polarities. Speakers usually have "+" and "-" stamped into the insulator board that holds the metal terminals, or inked onto the metal frame. Also, in this post, "Christopher" said that in his 2011 Outback, the front and rear channel wires were "180 degrees out of phase from each other" (technically, that would really mean they're the opposite polarity), and he had to reverse one pair. [after re-reading his post, I think he was talking about the outputs from the h/k amp to the speakers, even though at one point he wrote "inputs"]. So I'd really like to hear from someone who can verify that (and say whether it is the front or rears that have the wrong polarity). You can check this by sending your test signal into the aux input and compare it to the polarity ("phase" [sic]) that you see on the HU's and amp's outputs. In that same thread, Christopher also posted internal pictures of the h/k amp. More pictures of the amp harness plugs here, plus the circuit board inside the amp, and some of the car's speakers:2011 OB, HK Amp Upgrade!markc0220k posted some pictures of the harnesses here:color code for oem amp under passenger seat, anyone?Some more info on the h/k amp is in this thread:HK Radio for 07/08 OwnersArticle on Subaru's site:Subaru and Harman/Kardon Audio. A treat for all your senses. [new link, working] A treat for all your senses — Subaru and Harman/Kardon Audio [original link, now dead]Rear deck (parcel shelf) subwoofer in Legacy:I've found matching harnesses for R316 (2009) / R386 (2010-up) (the 24-pin one). UPDATE: I've also found matching harnesses for the other two. 10-pin is half of the Metra 70-1761 (or equivalent) set for Toyotas. 12-pin is Metra 70-7992 (or equivalent) for Suzuki. Both of those shells are from the same family, and the pins can be easily extracted and transplanted. More details and cross-reference: For the 10-pin harness (door speakers), use half of a Toyota harness: "forward" (connect to car's harnesses): Metra 70-1761Raptor (Metra) TY-8100Scosche TA02BAmerican International TWH-950Best Kits BHA1761 Reverse (connect to h/k amp): Metra 71-1761Scosche TA02RBAmerican International TWH-951 For the 12-pin harness (tweeters and dual voicecoil subwoofer): "forward" (connect to car's harnesses): Metra 70-7992Scosche SI03BAmerican International SWH960Best Kits BHA7992 Reverse (connect to h/k amp): Metra 71-7992Scosche (not produced, would be SI03RB)American International (not produced, would probably be SWH961)Best Kits (not produced, would be BHO7992) You'll want to re-pin both harnesses so that the wire colors make sense, but that's fairly easy to do with a small jeweler's/eyeglasses screwdriver.Discussion of removing h/k amp and replacing with aftermarket amp in this thread:Help with HK Audio Swap Edited October 13, 2014 by SVXdc Several updates: wire polarities, harnesses found, SOA h/k link; updated info about line-level; pasted harness cross-ref here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SVXdc Posted July 18, 2009 Share Posted July 18, 2009 (edited) do not totally "bypass" your oem amp (assuming you are talking the amp underneath the psg side seat), it (R316-B11) has wire it goes to your VDC/ ABS control module and GND. That pin is the VSS (vehicle speed signal) input into the h/k amp. Disconnecting that harness from the amp won't cause any problem (as long as you don't let anything touch the contact pins). Edited September 21, 2009 by SVXdc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markc0220k Posted October 17, 2009 Share Posted October 17, 2009 That pin is the VSS (vehicle speed signal) input into the h/k amp. Disconnecting that harness from the amp won't cause any problem (as long as you don't let anything touch the contact pins). so what is that VSS for, if it's no matter they are connected or not? mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cchen1 Posted October 17, 2009 Share Posted October 17, 2009 From what I understand, the VSS signal is for the speed volume control. As the vehicle speed changes, the amp receives that signal and adjusts volume (or gain or something like that). As a side note, do all '09 Legacy's with the the HK system have SVC, or is it only certain ones? I'm positive my car does not have it, and I could find no mention of it in the manual, yet everybody keeps on mentioning it. I guess it doesn't really matter at this point since I went aftermarket, but I am curious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markc0220k Posted October 17, 2009 Share Posted October 17, 2009 so we, who has 9spk HK sys, can actually remove the amp? mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SVXdc Posted May 11, 2010 Share Posted May 11, 2010 (edited) (answering some old questions...) From what I understand, the VSS signal is for the speed volume control. As the vehicle speed changes, the amp receives that signal and adjusts volume (or gain or something like that). As a side note, do all '09 Legacy's with the the HK system have SVC, or is it only certain ones? I'm positive my car does not have it, and I could find no mention of it in the manual, yet everybody keeps on mentioning it. As far as I know, all of the Subaru harman/kardon amps have that. I found this blurb on the cars101.com site (in the archive under 2009 Legacy): Automatic Speed-Sensitive Auto Volume Control (SSVC). This proprietary h/k technology is more focused on low voice frequency and down as opposed to high frequency speed related noise like tire whine. The volume changes may be very subtle. There are no adjustments or settings that the user can control or set. so we, who has 9spk HK sys, can actually remove the amp? Yes. (I answered that in post #7) Edited May 12, 2010 by SVXdc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
musty_hustla Posted June 14, 2010 Share Posted June 14, 2010 great post Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
limbota Posted August 26, 2010 Share Posted August 26, 2010 "12 Amp remote turn-on (2009 cars supply this pin with +12V Accessory)" is that the wire im gonna be using to run to the remote turn on, on an aftermarket amp? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SVXdc Posted August 27, 2010 Share Posted August 27, 2010 "[Harness R316, pin 12] Amp remote turn-on (2009 cars supply this pin with +12V Accessory)" is that the wire im gonna be using to run to the remote turn on, on an aftermarket amp? Yes. Unless you want to use a remote trigger module instead (detects sound on a speaker line and creates a real amp remote turn-on signal). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
limbota Posted August 27, 2010 Share Posted August 27, 2010 Yes. Unless you want to use a remote trigger module instead (detects sound on a speaker line and creates a real amp remote turn-on signal). i have a LOC with trigger turn on.. i chose to use the #1 +12v battery for the constant 12v on my LOC. does that sound right.? its working great so far but just making sure its right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SVXdc Posted August 27, 2010 Share Posted August 27, 2010 That's OK. But unless the LOC specifically wants +12V battery, I would use +12V accessory (so that will be one less thing drawing power when you take out your key). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
limbota Posted August 27, 2010 Share Posted August 27, 2010 That's OK. But unless the LOC specifically wants +12V battery, I would use +12V accessory (so that will be one less thing drawing power when you take out your key). the LOC instructions says.. "YELLOW +12 Volt constant" thats why i chose the +12v battery.. was i wrong in doing so? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SVXdc Posted August 27, 2010 Share Posted August 27, 2010 There must be a reason they said to use that, so it will be fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
micmicmotorbike Posted November 28, 2010 Share Posted November 28, 2010 Does anyone know if the crossovers for the tweeters in the fronts are in the doors or at the amp? I wonder if i run wires directly from an aftermarket HU, if i would need crossovers as well for the tweeters. Also, is there an easy way to just replace the HK amp with an aftermarket one, if i decide to keep the HK HU for better sound? Thanks guys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apexi Posted November 28, 2010 Share Posted November 28, 2010 I don't recall seeing a crossover when i took my door panel off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
micmicmotorbike Posted January 15, 2011 Share Posted January 15, 2011 anyone find out the polarities on the blue harness yet? i'm starting my jdm dual din project, and plan to bypass the 4 door speakers. i don't mind using the the factory wiring, so just plan on cutting the wires at the amps input harness, and connecting them to the output harness where the hk amp resides. i think this would be easier than running all new wires to each speaker. anyone have any other ideas for an easier install. for now i'll let the hk amp supply power to the tweeters and sub. also, planning to cut the vss wire, as i don't really care or need this feature. plus wouldn't want the volume changing on just the tweeters and sub while driving. also wondering if anyone has used the factory hk amp to supply sound to all speakers..... how does it sound? i would think that the sound coming directly from a good hu would provide a better quality sound. thoughts would be appreciated. thanks guys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markc0220k Posted January 17, 2011 Share Posted January 17, 2011 Does anyone know if the crossovers for the tweeters in the fronts are in the doors or at the amp? I wonder if i run wires directly from an aftermarket HU, if i would need crossovers as well for the tweeters. Also, is there an easy way to just replace the HK amp with an aftermarket one, if i decide to keep the HK HU for better sound? Thanks guys. i think their xover is set inside the amp, coz front tweeters and woofers are run from diff harness. the stock HU itself basically isn't that bad, search around forum and you'll see someone who could bypass the loudless and improve the voltage of output! i personally found that "loudless" is pretty useful, it can protect my low range drivers and my ears ( coz i don't prefer lots of booming! ). mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rickycc Posted March 26, 2013 Share Posted March 26, 2013 Here are the pin-outs for the three harnesses on the 2009 and 2010 harman/kardon amplifier. Each of these pin orientations is viewing the pins side of the car's harness (wires pointing away from you). For the socket on the amp, you'll need to mirror the numbers horizontally (e.g., 12, 11, 10, etc.). Looking at the rear of the amp, the connectors from left to right are: R315, R317 (blue), R316 If anyone opens up their speakers, please let me know which wire colors go to +/–, so I can update the pin-out tables with the polarities. More pictures of the amp harness plugs here: 2011 OB, HK Amp Upgrade! markc0220k posted some pictures of the harnesses here: color code for oem amp under passenger seat, anyone? Some more info on the h/k amp is in this thread: HK Radio for 07/08 Owners Article on Subaru's site: A treat for all your senses — Subaru and Harman/Kardon Audio [link dead, now that 2009 MY is past] Read deck sub in Legacy: [ATTACH]83545[/ATTACH] [ATTACH]84611[/ATTACH] [ATTACH]84612[/ATTACH] Read cargo sub in Outback: [ATTACH]83546[/ATTACH] I've found matching harnesses for R316 (the 24-pin one). I may be able to find the other two also (no promises). To your question..."If anyone opens up their speakers, please let me know which wire colors go to +/–, so I can update the pin-out tables with the polarities." I replaced the speakers and confirmed A is for Positive and B is for Negative. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now