Been dreaming of a swap, and the timing is right. Questions inside.

This is going to be on the longer side, but I will try to be concise.

 

I've owned my 05 lgt for approx 10 years now, and the engine is finally starting to give in to age. I've put more money keeping it running and stock lately and I believe it is finally time to pull the engine for a full rebuild.

 

That being said, I've been holding onto a pretty well built JDM 3s-gte that makes more power and incredibly easy to work on.

 

The easy part of the swap in my opinion will be any fab required as I've plenty of experience in that department. However, I don't have nearly enough expertise or knowhow with the ecu.

 

My goal is to keep the electronics stock and or the current parts I've put in as far as mirrors lights and (my favorite of all) the gauge cluster.

 

I'm hoping to either A. Fit the stock 5mt to the 3s, or if I need to get it rebuilt to accept the lovely little Toyota motor.

 

So my questions to all of you are,

 

1. What should I look to do and expect with ecu swapping? And I would greatly appreciate a point in the direction of company or individuals who can do some wire harness work.

 

2. Thoughts on transmission usage, should I get one built to fit this bill?

 

3. New seats are going to be important, however I'd like to keep the heating aspect to them as I do enjoy using this car in winter, anyone know where to get some heated racing seats that fit the legacy?

 

Any help or positive opinion is greatly appreciate. While I know I'm bastardizing a great car slightly I'd prefer any hateful bashing of abandoning my subaru to stay minimal as I will also be building that motor in time to put into something I feel it belongs.

 

Thanks in advance guys.

subscribed for the carnage. nothing useful to add

 

might help if you posted pics of the victim and donor engine

Fair enough, I'll try to get some photos of the 3s, however it hasn't been pulled from the car it's currently stored in.

The subaru 2.5 is completely stock aside from the spt intake engine wise.

Probably way out of budget, but if you are looking for aftermarket seats, and don't want Subaru seats, Recaro makes aftermarket seats with heat and side airbags (can't recall if ours have seat mounted side airbags). The seats also look really good too! So, just some food for thought

 

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First thing is to find the pin-out of the MR2/whatever it was used in/came out of and compare the I/O to the LGT one. That way you have an idea of what, if anything is common. I wouldnt expect much but If you have the donor and the harness(es) at least you could see the various I/O and if its worth the time.

 

Could be fun or a nightmare. I remember there was a member that swapped in a buick engine to a 05-06 LGT it came out nice.

 

 

As far as the transmission if this is coming out of FWD car you will need to use all of your fab prowess to mate the Subaru 5MT OR find a MT with a non-integrated bell housing and fab that up as long as the spline count matches.

Edited June 14, 2021 by GEE-OTTO

There are a few interesting swaps on here. One member was in the process (may have completed) of swapping in a 4G63 into his LGT.

 

Forum member, k00laid83, stepped up where AVXdc wasn't any more, and began making harnesses for the JDM double din dual HVAC panels. Other member, BagRidersJohn (John Hall), has been building wicked cars and requested k00laid83 help with a few wiring projects. Not sure how involved k00laid83 is, but couldn't hurt to reach out to him.

 

As for seats, Chocoholic005 has some Evo X Recaros just about ready to go in the classifieds section. These seats are almost a direct swap into our cars and offer a great factory sportiness. PM him for more info. Or comb through his build.

First thing is to find the pin-out of the MR2/whatever it was used in/came out of and compare the I/O to the LGT one. That way you have an idea of what, if anything is common. I wouldnt expect much but If you have the donor and the harness(es) at least you could see the various I/O and if its worth the time.

 

Could be fun or a nightmare. I remember there was a member that swapped in a buick engine to a 05-06 LGT it came out nice.

 

 

As far as the transmission if this is coming out of FWD car you will need to use all of your fab prowess to mate the Subaru 5MT OR find a MT with a non-integrated bell housing and fab that up as long as the spline count matches.

 

So the donor car is a jdm swapped celica, but it is unfortunately fwd. My goal is going to be mating the stock 5mt from the subaru. I was told I might need to do a bit of cutting, but that much should be just fine. I am in company of some solid folks who've done stupid swaps before.

 

I was quoted from P&L $5500 dollars give or take for doing a full ecu and harness build for the car. They just want the engine in the bay and transmission mated before they do the work. It seems steep but also I like the idea of having a professional doing the wiring and I can get it tuned on the spot. However, I'm still open to suggestion if someone wants to tackle something like this.

There are a few interesting swaps on here. One member was in the process (may have completed) of swapping in a 4G63 into his LGT.

 

Forum member, k00laid83, stepped up where AVXdc wasn't any more, and began making harnesses for the JDM double din dual HVAC panels. Other member, BagRidersJohn (John Hall), has been building wicked cars and requested k00laid83 help with a few wiring projects. Not sure how involved k00laid83 is, but couldn't hurt to reach out to him.

 

As for seats, Chocoholic005 has some Evo X Recaros just about ready to go in the classifieds section. These seats are almost a direct swap into our cars and offer a great factory sportiness. PM him for more info. Or comb through his build.

 

I will reach out to them, I appreciate you sending options over thank you.

So the donor car is a jdm swapped celica, but it is unfortunately fwd. My goal is going to be mating the stock 5mt from the subaru. I was told I might need to do a bit of cutting, but that much should be just fine. I am in company of some solid folks who've done stupid swaps before.

 

I was quoted from P&L $5500 dollars give or take for doing a full ecu and harness build for the car. They just want the engine in the bay and transmission mated before they do the work. It seems steep but also I like the idea of having a professional doing the wiring and I can get it tuned on the spot. However, I'm still open to suggestion if someone wants to tackle something like this.

 

as someone who paid to have their whole done a decade ago, this will be odd.

 

if you have to pay $5500 to have someone wire in a different engine, why? seems like a waste of money. for that dough, you could a top of the line IAG shortblock and spend the rest of your money on making a 700hp monster lgt.

as someone who paid to have their whole done a decade ago, this will be odd.

 

if you have to pay $5500 to have someone wire in a different engine, why? seems like a waste of money. for that dough, you could a top of the line IAG shortblock and spend the rest of your money on making a 700hp monster lgt.

 

I see your point, and I'm still considering options, because I too thought the 5500 was pretty steep.

 

The issue I see, is buying a shortblock, heads, turbo, and the grocery list of supporting mods. I still would be cleaning out a solid 10k to build a monster.

 

I'm not necessarily against the idea of having a ridiculous legacy, but I also hate working on the ej25. Changing a damn spark plug is beyond annoying.

 

I'm still strongly considering all options, but if you have some valid suggestions on where to go for the shortblock option I'm happy to research it.

 

I've also been trying to find a good home for my 3s as I love the motor and everything about it. So if someone comes across an abandoned ae86 coupe that doesn't cost 15k to get home I'd listen to that too.

Let me start by saying that I love some engine swaps BUT I don't think the legacy is the best platform for it.

 

a) The ej is a good engine and is VERY well supported by the aftermarket. Just say the number and someone has a price tag and parts list ready to go for whatever power level you want up to 1200-ish horsepower. (I think that is as far as the billet blocks are being pushed right now)

b) If spark plugs is one of the main reasons you want to swap, remember the service interval is like 100k miles, for a 'normal' car, racing is a different ball of wax. Also just pay some guy with little girl hands $100 every 5 years.

c) The legacy as a car is getting older and is not as well supported as the WRX is, options are limited unlike the WRX/STi. You can get anything you want from like 6+ vendors.

d) If you did want to want to say yolo!!! and do it anyways, I would prob just go for an LS, or an EG30/EZ30. Sure you can do a 2JZ, or an RB engine but straight 6s are long boys.

 

Heck if we are getting creative here just order an FA24 from Subaru, that is the latest generation of direct injected 4 cylinder engines available and the potential seems to be very promising. Porsche has turbo flat 4 engines there are many many options is the point. But putting $10, $15, $30k into a car you can buy for 6k online all day long is hard to justify.

 

At the end of the day your car your money, but I would not swap that motor into this car, just my two cents.

 

Lastly, I am considering an EZ30 for my car so I'm not poo poo-ing on the swapping part, just the engine choice.

I was only using the spark plugs as an example.

 

So while I don't disagree with some of the things you're saying. The main point made earlier is that I already own the 3s and it's already built up to 400hp.

 

Say what you want about the engine choice but I'm partial to it. I'm still weighing options but either going to stick with the ej and invest some money into it, or swap in my other engine.

 

My only issue with the ej is working on it. I prefer to do as much work I can on my own, and the ej is by far the most obnoxious engine overall I've ever had to wrench on. I'm not saying its a bad motor by any means, but I'm use to playing with toyota's.

 

I will continue researching shortblocks and such and maybe just sitting on the 3s for a while longer.

i watched a guy stuff a 2jz into an m3 because some random thing he hated about the engine and because cheaper than building bmw. he passed the bmw rebuild price in the first week. he lit piles of cash after that. still not done.

 

if I had to pick a swap candidate, a lgt would be the last thing Id start with. as someone else said, there's no support for it and it's 15+ years old. that $15k ae86 is going to look cheap by the time you get done.

 

look up frankster/ frank_ster something like that. he swapped a buick turbo v6 into a lgt. the number of ppl who done swaps like this is really small because super hard for small rewards.

 

looking at your posts so far, you don't seem to have the skills to do this. outsourcing wiring will be the first of many checks you're going to write. it's your money, but geez there's a ton of way better cars for this. miata? ae86?

I've been doing some more reading and research, and yes not swapping seems like the simpler option. I've been looking into options as far as rebuild.

 

I was quoted at around 12-16k for a built bottom end, which I don't necessarily agree on. However, unless something miraculous happens I will likely be looking into a shortblock and sending the subaru heads out.

 

I appreciate everyones time and opinions. I will abandon the idea of sticking a old faithful here and sit on it for a while longer while I try to find a recipient for it.

 

If anyone has any other opinions or suggestions I gladly welcome them. Otherwise this one is closed.

 

Thanks everyone.

i watched a guy stuff a 2jz into an m3 because some random thing he hated about the engine and because cheaper than building bmw. he passed the bmw rebuild price in the first week. he lit piles of cash after that. still not done.

 

if I had to pick a swap candidate, a lgt would be the last thing Id start with. as someone else said, there's no support for it and it's 15+ years old. that $15k ae86 is going to look cheap by the time you get done.

 

look up frankster/ frank_ster something like that. he swapped a buick turbo v6 into a lgt. the number of ppl who done swaps like this is really small because super hard for small rewards.

 

looking at your posts so far, you don't seem to have the skills to do this. outsourcing wiring will be the first of many checks you're going to write. it's your money, but geez there's a ton of way better cars for this. miata? ae86?

 

^^^^ facts! before I moved from Wyoming, the shop I was working at took in a wrx with a 1jz sitting in it sorta mounted up that a girl bought saying “it just needs wiring and plumbing done”. They asked me my opinion on it and when they told her, she just started crying. A year later I saw the car for sale in Salt Lake City in the exact same condition also stating “it just needs wiring and plumbing done“. Swaps will nickel and dime the hell out of you and very few of them end up as reliable as the original power plant. That wrx will just keep changing hands until someone sells the 1jz and the car will end up in a scrap yard

I was only using the spark plugs as an example.

 

So while I don't disagree with some of the things you're saying. The main point made earlier is that I already own the 3s and it's already built up to 400hp.

 

Say what you want about the engine choice but I'm partial to it. I'm still weighing options but either going to stick with the ej and invest some money into it, or swap in my other engine.

 

My only issue with the ej is working on it. I prefer to do as much work I can on my own, and the ej is by far the most obnoxious engine overall I've ever had to wrench on. I'm not saying its a bad motor by any means, but I'm use to playing with toyota's.

 

I will continue researching shortblocks and such and maybe just sitting on the 3s for a while longer.

 

 

I hear you. We all like what we like no hating on that.

I worked at Lexus for a while and those are generally easier cars to work on. Subarus are not bad in my opinion, now Audi on the other hand can burn in hell. Even with a lift, shop tools, special tools those things fought you every step of the way I hear VWs are much the same.

My only issue with the ej is working on it. I prefer to do as much work I can on my own, and the ej is by far the most obnoxious engine overall I've ever had to wrench on. I'm not saying its a bad motor by any means, but I'm use to playing with toyota's.

 

It sounds like your used to 3S's. I have about equal time wrenching on Toyota's and Subaru's. I find Toyota models are made for mechanics with small hands. If your complaining about spark plugs, the two FWD based V6 Toyota I had required pulling the upper intake manifold to change the rear sparks plugs. It was a good 4-5 hour job, much more work than removing the intake box and tight space for spark plugs on Subaru.

 

Anyways, I don't think Subaru is really not all that hard to work on besides the boxer design putting the heads against the frame rails. The Subaru motors are at least one of the easier motors to pull since you have to pull the pull to remove the heads.

I've been doing some more reading and research, and yes not swapping seems like the simpler option. I've been looking into options as far as rebuild.

 

I was quoted at around 12-16k for a built bottom end, which I don't necessarily agree on. However, unless something miraculous happens I will likely be looking into a shortblock and sending the subaru heads out.

 

I appreciate everyones time and opinions. I will abandon the idea of sticking a old faithful here and sit on it for a while longer while I try to find a recipient for it.

 

If anyone has any other opinions or suggestions I gladly welcome them. Otherwise this one is closed.

 

Thanks everyone.

 

Is that $12-16k for an EJ255 bottom end? I don't know what your goals are but if your happy with 320ahwp which is close to 400crank hp. You can get a $2k OEM short block, rebuild your heads, bigger turbo, downpipe, and tune. It should relatively reliable and fun to drive.

 

I think integrating a modern Subaru harness into a old school Toyota engine is going to be hard. Does your 3S have distributorless ignition? Does it have VVT-i? Those system made function different than Subaru's and may have different type of sensor and/or you Toyota may not have all those sensors for the timing. I think your being wise to reconsider using a Subaru EJ engine.

12-16k for a built ej shortblock is a 1000hp drag motor. willall block?

 

400whp is 450crank. the upgrades to make that much fun will be 10-15k, all done.

 

300whp is an easy target and a fun dd

My goal as it stand at the moment, will be buying a new shortblock, sending off my old heads to be machined and upgraded with titanium.

 

Finding a tried and true shop/ kit for a t4 sized turbo, getting an exhaust made or bought from a reputable source that supports an ewg (would love suggestions), upgrading the fuel system and seeing where that gets me.

 

I started with the idea of 10k as a budget, but I'm also hoping that I can find space in there to get some larger brakes, but probably not. I figure getting the motor as close to a reliable 400 is a decent starting point.

 

If the world were more perfect the toyota would've fit the bill well, and with some serious man hours aside leave plenty of space in the budget to get the brakes/suspension up to a higher standard.

 

Again, I geniunely appreciate all the feedback, and begrudgingly accept that swapping is more nightmare than I'm prepared for.

It sounds like your used to 3S's. I have about equal time wrenching on Toyota's and Subaru's. I find Toyota models are made for mechanics with small hands. If your complaining about spark plugs, the two FWD based V6 Toyota I had required pulling the upper intake manifold to change the rear sparks plugs. It was a good 4-5 hour job, much more work than removing the intake box and tight space for spark plugs on Subaru.

 

Anyways, I don't think Subaru is really not all that hard to work on besides the boxer design putting the heads against the frame rails. The Subaru motors are at least one of the easier motors to pull since you have to pull the pull to remove the heads.

 

You're probably right, the 3s has everything relocated/upgraded for ease of use as well. Oil filter is relocated behind the driver side light (right side of car) and the manifold and turbo is planted right behind the radiator, it's all very convenient.

 

Circumstantially I will have to get over my easy work and try to give the subaru's another shot in a patient world, and just learn to pull the engine when I need to get stuff done with it.

 

For the record, I am the proud owner of small hands, not trump sized but dainty nonetheless.

I hear you. We all like what we like no hating on that.

I worked at Lexus for a while and those are generally easier cars to work on. Subarus are not bad in my opinion, now Audi on the other hand can burn in hell. Even with a lift, shop tools, special tools those things fought you every step of the way I hear VWs are much the same.

 

Yeah, I'm just not giving the subaru a fighting chance. I'm going to have plenty of practice when I pull it and I'm sure I will figure out where all the ease is at.

 

I will never, ever, ever etc. touch another german made car with a tool in my life. My ex had a bmw that was a nightmare and I never even got into the engine. I'd rather work minimum wage changing subaru spark plugs for the rest of my life than dare into the world of "german engineering". Their f1 team is pretty good though.

The Toyota Celica All Trac Turbo is in a round about way got me into Subaru's. I had a 85 Supra as my daily driver which was not a great all year driver in New England. I did a lot of digging out and pushing in the snow. The Supra was not my best decision but I was in my 20's. I loved that car and it is still one my favorite cars I have owned. I always like the All-Trac's at that time. I sold my Supra in 1999 a couple years later I started looking at the 90-93 Celica GT4, it seemed like it would have the same spirit as my Supra but in year round platform. In 2002, I test drove 91 and 92. In 2003 the Evolution came out, I shift my focus to getting one of those. When I went to seriously looking purchase an Evolution, my ex-wife blocked that decision. I compromised and bought a Subaru.

I hear you. We all like what we like no hating on that.

 

I worked at Lexus for a while and those are generally easier cars to work on. Subarus are not bad in my opinion, now Audi on the other hand can burn in hell. Even with a lift, shop tools, special tools those things fought you every step of the way I hear VWs are much the same.

I can confirm VAG engineers are sadist, my last heavily modded car was an 01 Audi TT quattro, everything is had to get to, requires a special tool, and is expensive, you would think having the 1.8t from a golf would help but nope Evey bit of exhaust , intake, mounts was all model specific, the internals and fueling where about all that translated

 

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I still think you are dreaming when you say reliable 400hp. That's probably beyond the upper limit on the 5mt. I say that having had to buy a 5mt after rebuilding 3&4 20,000 miles previously. I had 310hp.

 

at 400, doing the suspension and brakes will be requirement not a "maybe later".