What to do? Broken timing belt 05 Outback XT AT

Let me preface this by saying I have no experience in working with engines although I did change the turbo to a BNR 16 4 years ago and no issues. 175000 miles.

 

It turns out one of the idlers seized and stripped the timing belt at the crank. I put a new timing belt and idler on and turn the engine over by hand. I don't feel or hear any compression (like you might pulling on a mower), so I'm not very optimistic. Before, I go to the trouble of bolting everything back together to see if it'll start, I may just try to do a compression test on it. But then again, what's easier a compression test where I may have to lift the engine or bolting everything back on?

 

Assuming the engine is shot, what is my best choices?

 

Scrap the car (I just put new ((Cheap)) tires on it, 4 year old BNR 16, I believe Invidia downpipe and whatever the next section is call. Some sway bar but I can't remember what. It needs a new wheel bearing in the back).

 

Have somebody install a used or rebuilt engine. I don't think I can do it but I'm willing to try if it's not too bad. My mechanic (who's not a Subaru specialist) told me it would be about $1000 labor.

 

If used EJ20 or EJ25?

 

It's my son car. He doesn't have a whole lot of money. He can drive my old CRV until a decision is made but he'll have to get his own car at some point.

 

Thanks in advance.

 

Van

Let me preface this by saying I have no experience in working with engines although I did change the turbo to a BNR 16 4 years ago and no issues. 175000 miles.

 

It turns out one of the idlers seized and stripped the timing belt at the crank. I put a new timing belt and idler on and turn the engine over by hand. I don't feel or hear any compression (like you might pulling on a mower), so I'm not very optimistic. Before, I go to the trouble of bolting everything back together to see if it'll start, I may just try to do a compression test on it. But then again, what's easier a compression test where I may have to lift the engine or bolting everything back on?

 

Assuming the engine is shot, what is my best choices?

 

Scrap the car (I just put new ((Cheap)) tires on it, 4 year old BNR 16, I believe Invidia downpipe and whatever the next section is call. Some sway bar but I can't remember what. It needs a new wheel bearing in the back).

 

Have somebody install a used or rebuilt engine. I don't think I can do it but I'm willing to try if it's not too bad. My mechanic (who's not a Subaru specialist) told me it would be about $1000 labor.

 

If used EJ20 or EJ25?

 

It's my son car. He doesn't have a whole lot of money. He can drive my old CRV until a decision is made but he'll have to get his own car at some point.

 

Thanks in advance.

 

Van

 

Used EJ255 are just not worth the money. I have seen them for $3500-4000 and they have high miles. Even $3k, I wouldn't spend that kind of money on a used motor when a new EJ255 short block is $1800.

 

EJ20 conversion to do right need timing belt, tune and the cost of an used engine. If your paying $1000 for labor, I can that costing about $3k. (The resale value drops on a conversion though and it can be more difficult to find a mechanic to work on it)

 

A new EJ255 is about $3500 of parts with a new short block and rebuilding your heads. If your labor is $1000 to R&R the motor, I would plan to spend another $1000 assembling the motor, so you're at $5500.

 

An 2005 OB XT with 175k miles might be realistically worth $5000. The best financial solution with the least hassle is probably to sell the entire car as is for $1500 and let someone who is mechanically inclined to repair it. Fixing the car with new engine is not cost effective but the engine should be reliable for a long time afterwards.

You do not need to remove or raise the engine for a compression test. It's just a pain to get the hose in place in each cylinder. But it is definitely doable. Rent compression tester at Autozone, and perform the test.

I did the compression test on one cylinder (forward driver side). It took me half a day to do and it's probably the easiest to get to.

 

I got 100 psi and it held pressure.

 

I think I'm just going to put it back together and see how it does.

 

Of note, there was no belt guard or guide over the crank sprocket. Is that normal for an AT. I know they aren't on the sides.

Half a day huh. That sucks. I do recall wasting time trying to get the hose threads to catch the threads on the head.

 

 

You should still do a compression test on all cylinders. What you are looking for are consistent numbers.

 

 

I understand AT did NOT come with the guide above the crank sprocket. Only MTs.

 

 

Also, when you put everything together, make sure you set the correct gap between all the guides. Very important.

The timing belt guides? Again this is an AT so, it didn't have any guides. Thanks for the help.

Oh really? Not even guides on the corners? Interesting...

Nothing on the corners. There's are bolt holes for the guide over the crank but no guide.

I got the new timing belt on and buttoned everything back up. I didn't do any further compression test because of the location of the spark plugs. It starts up but it sounds like putt, putt, putt and only feels about half as strong as it use to.

 

I called a place that is out of state that does a fair amount of Subaru's and they said, at a minimum a head job which would cost $3000. They also said to replace with an EJ20 it would be $3800.

 

I found a place in Long Beach CA the would do the swap for $1900 (engine and labor). And they said that they've done a fair number of them with no CEL.

 

I called another JDM motor place and aked them what was involved. He said I lonely had to exchange the intake and exhaust manifolds and the crank sprocket.

 

I've found on this forum that one person just exchanged the intake and extended the O2 sensor on the exhaust?

 

Any ideal what is really involved? I've also read somewhere the right cam sprocket needs to be changed? I know you can use the USDM ECU but not run the exhaust AVCS or add some wire and run it or use the JDM ECU. Again, we just want this car running with a minimum of costs.

 

Again, thanks in advanced.

The $1900 EJ20x will get it running, but not running right. It needs to be tuned. It should have a timing belt since the low mileage JDM engine is going to be 12-16 years old. I think EJ20X are good those who want a DIY projects and are mechanically inclined.

 

If you want minimal costs and you are paying for labor, I would sell your car as is and buy another car.

So my son and I decided that we're going to pull the engine ourselves. It only took 20 mins on youtube so maybe 40 mins for us (HAHA). We'll see what damage we can surmise and then make a decision as to what to do at that time.

then if you go through the trouble to remove the engine, might as well just send the heads to a machine shop and that should be enough, provided your short block is still good.

So we got the engine out. I was going to do a compression test but since this is an automatic, the flywheel stayed with the transmission.

 

So is there another way to crank the engine?

You really need the starter to spin the motor over to do a compression test, (if you spin it with a wrench you might get 30 psi). If you have an air compressor, you can get a spark plug fitting and fill the cylinders to see if the valve are leaking.

So I rotated by hand and I got the following readings DR 41, DF 31, PR 25 and PF 44. Each one was done with 10 rotations of the crank nut. I don't know if this tells me anything.

 

Can I get a old clutch and flywheel and bolt it on to the engine

And will any Subaru clutch work?

Not answering your question, but why don't you do a leakdown test?

So I rotated by hand and I got the following readings DR 41, DF 31, PR 25 and PF 44. Each one was done with 10 rotations of the crank nut. I don't know if this tells me anything.

 

I tried it once and from what I saw, it doesn't tell you anything other than you don't have zero compression.

Here is my leakdown test results. How let me ask if I did this correctly since I've never done one before. I set the compressor to 100 PSI. Hooked up the leakdown tester and set to 0% leakage on the right gauge. The left gauge is showing about 27 psi. Connect tester to cylinder already set to TDC, Read tester and listen for leaks. The firing order is 1 (PF), 3 (PR), 2 (DF), 4 (DR).

 

cylinder 1 - 14-22% air coming out of adjacent cylinder. plugged cylinder and air coming out of intake.

 

cylinder 3 - 9-10% air coming out of oil filler

 

cylinder 2 - 7-8% air coming out of oil filler

 

cylinder 4 - 6-7% air coming out of oil filler.

In my opinion, it is normal to get air coming out of the oil filler since the engine is cold and the rings have not expanded, which would rule out cylinders 3,2, and 4.

 

Now, it appears that your intake valves on cylinder 1 are leaking. Probably bent then. Intake valves are cheap. I think 20$ a pop IIRC.

 

So assuming your short block is still good (no cracked ringland), then you could technically "just" get your heads rebuilt and slap them back.

 

Cost: heads rebuilt + gasket kit + timing belt kit (if old) + anything else you want

Also, I got a quote locally for head repair. $660 for both side and $144 for guides.

 

Do I need to have both sides done? Is this something, I should send out?

 

Again, my son is trying to minimize cost.

You definitely want to check the valve clearances while you have the motor out and one head off. It is pretty likely the valve shims will need to be adjusted with the miles you have. You can check the clearance with a feeler gauges without removing the head, just need to remove the valve cover.

Yeah I forgot about this: valve clearance. Unfortunately, each bucket is about 20$. It adds up quick.

 

Check these before you dismantle the engine. Target is 0.20mm +.04/-.06mm for the intake and 0.35mm +/-0.05mm for the exhaust.

I usually use a 0.37mm target for the exhaust valves as these tend to loose their clearance faster over time.

 

 

Now, as to send one head vs two, that's your call. I would do both so I know the engine will be good for a long while.

Here are my clearances

 

Cylinder 1 I - 30 and 25 E - 30 and 30

 

Cylinder 3 I - 20 and 20 E - 37 and 38

 

Cylinder 2 I - 22 and 22 E - 30 and 35

 

Cylinder 4 I - 22 and 22 E - 33 and 32

 

Is cylinder 1 intake off because of a bent valve? If so, I don't correct this until after the head repair? And the other numbers won't change with the head job?

Unfortunately, everything may change with a head job, especially if new valves are installed. But you may be able to reuse a few buckets.

 

And yeah, it could very well be the case that #1 intake clearances are off from bent valves.