6th Gen Tuning Thread

The engines both crank normal, albeit a little slower. When using Regular (85 here), there's noticable lag in starting. Our XV is pretty bad with super cold starts on regular. It will stumble for a few seconds and act like it's going to stall. My Legacy doesn't do that, however it will pause for a split second after cranking and then the motor will start running. - Hard to explain, sorry. With running Premium (91 here), no pause in my Legacy and the XV doesn't stumble.

 

 

Think I'm going to try to exclusively use ethanol free for a few months and see what kind of differences I notice

 

 

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Maybe i missed it somewhere but is there going to be away to get this in the US? I am in Florida and would love to have this change made.

I've been trying to find one that will but most are afraid to even touch our Legacy's here in the U.S. I talked with one shop that is local to me that is very well known and simply put they told me in other words its not worth it get a wrx or a lgt or a fxt.

 

Yes I had similar experience here in Oz. I also investigated Ecutek tunes who are the other major tuning brand here, however the guys that ran the workshop locally talked me out of it. They said for the cost vs. minimal gain you would get from an ECU tune (only), it just didn't give you the bang for buck and likely I'd be disappointed with the end result.

 

In reality I think it sometimes comes down to a commercial decision that some tuners have decided not to invest the time/$ into developing a tune for particular models/engines due to the expected low demand/ROI. I can completely understand this from a commercial perspective.

 

I generally keep my cars around 3-4 years and am really happy with how things have turned out with the combination of transmission & ECU tune. I've got another 2-3 years of driving my gen6 2.5i and I'm now going to enjoy this time even more now that my major bugbear (lack of power/pick-up) with the car has been sorted.

So does that mean I'll need a retune and redo my dyno / timed runs?

 

 

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I completely understand it as well from a commercial stand point, but it's like what about all the cars that go to sema and what not ya know? Just something different that could potentially put a shop on the map. but I get it as there is a lot of risk involved for both parties.

Sounds like a plan. Doing a car in Melbourne next week but from all reports, new DBW tables are icing on the cake

 

Are you still planning on being in Adelaide on the 10th? So the new DBW tables gives a snappier throttle response?

Awesome, can't wait for more people getting tuned in the US, I'll def be interested. Gotta start put a saving on the side. [emoji14]

Is there anyone who does tuning for State side for the legacy OR anyone who does their own tuning as a hobby?

I'd love to see dyno charts from both the 2.5 and 3.6!

Getting it down to 8.4sec is mighty impressive! If you shave another 0.5 off you'll be right on the tail of the six cylinder model!

Getting it down to 8.4sec is mighty impressive! If you shave another 0.5 off you'll be right on the tail of the six cylinder model!

 

Yes Subaru Australia claim a 0-100kph time of 7.2sec for the 3.6R (and 9.6sec for the 2.5i). Wheels mag tested the 3.6R and got 7.3sec, however the best time I got stock for the 2.5i was around 9.9sec. Quite possibly ambient temperatures, amount of fuel and whether they ran the test with a 50kg jockey is all unknown.

 

I'm looking at an updated tune plus some freer flowing headers/high flow cat to reduce restrictions in the exhaust. I was originally thinking of doing it in stages, however now I'm leaning towards getting the headers done prior to dyno tuning at the end of next month if it's possible. That way it can get dyno tuned with the exhaust mods.

 

So my 2.5i will definitely be snapping at your 3.6R heels at the end of next month

 

I think high 7's is definitely achievable, however low 7's may be out of reach - unless I was to run E85....

 

Don't worry I'm not going to go that far so you 3.6R owners can sleep safe knowing that you still have the (slightly) quicker car. That is until you guys start doing your own performance improvements. The 3.6R has the higher torque CVT so has a lot more opportunity for larger power gains (supercharger, turbo, etc).

Edited January 17, 2016 by tigger73

Retune done. A lot more torque - particularly low down.

 

Dyno results below, however rev 2 tune with headers was run with 91 octane and stock was with 95. Even still the tuned version performs quite a bit better.

 

So tigger, I recently contacted raptor superchargers about their XV Crosstrek supercharger kits they have to see its compatibility with our cars and they told me the two kits they have adapt to all FB20/25 applications. So yea that's my next upgrade I'm saving for lol, any thoughts? pros/cons? I know the cvt is definitely cause for concern like you said before but if XV can take it, I'm sure ours should be fine. Was thinking if I did this I would like to see if the morimoto cvt oil cooler for the wrx is also compatible

Based on what I'm seeing on here, you should be saving for another car, perhaps a WRX. Keep the 2.5i stock and happy, stick it out for another couple years, save up the difference and jump into a turbo Subaru. Nobody wants to hear the obvious advice.

This would be the next logical step for me also, however the kit may not make it onto my car due to a number of factors including cost, time/miles I keep my cars and transmission reliability concerns.

 

I think the idea of putting on an oil cooler sounds like a good one. And would go a reasonable way to eliminating any possible reliability issues with the CVT.

 

I'm catching up with throttlehappy/Matt next weekend at our local Club Liberty dyno day so will have a chat to him and get his thoughts. He's tuned a few Liberty/Legacy cars with the raptor SC kits.

Based on what I'm seeing on here, you should be saving for another car, perhaps a WRX. Keep the 2.5i stock and happy, stick it out for another couple years, save up the difference and jump into a turbo Subaru. Nobody wants to hear the obvious advice.

 

Unfortunately the Legacy doesn't come with a GT model anymore otherwise I'm sure there would be quite a few of us that would have bought it.

 

There are some reasonable gains to be achieved from tuning the 2.5NA at a moderate cost. Given that people are happy to pay good money for cosmetic enhancements (grilles/spoilers/splitters/etc) a tune costing similar amount is certainly something to consider on your shopping list for mods.

 

We all understand that we're not going to get the same gains as a stage 1 tune on a turbo car but adjustments to the transmission shift patterns, throttle maps and fuelling can make a family sedan into something a bit more enjoyable to drive.

 

We understand your comments, and I'm seriously considering my options (hence not wanting to tip money into a supercharger kit). However at the moment there isn't anything in the mid-size sedan that has an AWD system, ACC, fit and finish that comes close to the Legacy price.

 

And you know some of us actually get pleasure out of modding our cars even though they're not going to be the fastest car on the road/track. I would have thought coming from another car enthusiast you would understand this - so please stop jumping on every NA tuning thread and being a kill-joy. We know our cars aren't super-fast so no need to keep pointing it out. Yes we could have started with a different platform but we're looking to make the most of the decision to buy the car we did at the time. For the $ I've spent and the options/kit I've got I still think I've got a very good value car in terms of $/performance/options/looks/etc.

 

And the acid test is if you were in the same position again knowing what you do now would you make the same decision again and for me the answer would be yes.

 

/rant and get back to your gen4/turbo forum area and let us be deluded in thinking our cars are quick (even though they're only a average). But at least they're not totally slow anymore

I definitely understand both sides but I really hate the annoying answer which is to save up and get, or should've got a different car.... Ummm no, this is the car I have and will be keeping for long time so what I really need right now is enablers, not someone to bring my hopes and dreams down. Let's all get superchargers!!! Seriously though tigger let me know what Matt says when you see him, he probably knows more about our cars then anyone else right now so his word will definitely be the most helpful

Not quite sure why people think they're superior because they simply bought the car the way it was instead of modifying it to what they wanted. Built not Bought

Alright, there's quite a lot to unpack in that last reply, tigger so I won't quote it in its entirety and take it line by line because it's going to get quite lengthy. There's a lot of baggage assigned to me for things that simply were not said by me.

 

Nobody is saying don't mod, you can mod any car you want, the question is does it make sense? If you're not interested in objective opinions that's fine, but you'll have to learn to filter them for yourself. Asking the turbo guys to just keep to themselves is illogical and is basically asking other people to manage themselves just for your satisfaction.

Forget about what we drive. Do you or do you not value experience?

I'm not here to be a killjoy for anyone. How is it possible to be a killjoy if you already have good reasons to do what you're doing? I'm asking objective questions.

 

Forget I said anything about the WRX, I think an ECU tune is worth doing on any Subaru as there's some gains to be had by simple virtue of the stock maps almost always being conservative. Shaving off 3 seconds from stock is pretty damn good, and the fact that you're improving drivability and response greatly is just about enough to dispell any criticism of what you're doing.

 

But you're going beyond this and asking a question about supercharging the 2.5i. My response was strictly aimed at this question. Are you sure you understand the path that lies ahead should you go this route? Here's the short story: more money than the difference needed for you to get a WRX if you were to sell the 2.5i and still not the same performance, assuming everything is turnkey.

 

Simple question: why would you pay more for less? That's really what you're asking: should I pay more, for less?

 

Of course, there's always the possibility of being wrong.

So what's the cost for the kit, installed, turnkey? So if I were to drop off a 2.5i and pick up a supercharged 2.5i, what's the cost? Kit, labor, tune, everything. I would actually like to know this myself, because my wife drives a 2.5i Outback. Turning that thing into a sleeper is not entirely out of the realm of possibility.

Edited May 11, 2016 by fishbone

Ok, so I did some clicking.

http://www.raptorsc.com.au/subaru8.html

 

The kit alone is $3400 cheapest one. Add at least $650 for getting it tuned.

This is in AUD. That means about $2500 USD plus about $480 for tuning.

Labor is additional and I'd like to know what that brings up the total dollar amount to.

$400 for what's essentially a pro-tune is a very reasonable price. The kit price ain't bad either.

Edited May 11, 2016 by fishbone

Thanks fishbone last post is definitely more constructive. I didn't want this thread to end up like some of the others that are "lets bash the 2.5 owners". It doesn't help anyone and we're all car enthusiasts here who take pride in the cars that we drive.

 

I 100% agree with you that when buying a new car you should ask the important questions of whether this is the right platform that is going to satisfy all your requirements from a motor car for the life of your car ownership.

 

The challenge is having made the decision and bought the car rationalizing that "I think I can live with the power output of the 2.5", however when reality sets in after 3-6 months that it's just too slow to be enjoyable, then what? The comments about you should have bought a different platform to start with or save up your pennies and buy the model with the turbo are really not that helpful. We already knew that

 

For me the 2.5 base model was AUD$30,000 and the 3.6R $45,000, however the kicker was the extra fuel consumption of the 3.6 so it didn't ever really get considered (outside the limits of the company supplied fuel card). WRX again was around the same price of the 3.6 and a smaller vehicle so it didn't really get considered from a price/size perspective. Also for me I was looking to save some $ on the car this time around so I could do some house renovations so it's all down to peoples personal situations.

 

Anyway so people have come to the position that the 2.5i is right for them and sign up for it. The problem is that for most people vehicle purchases are a 3-5 year proposition. You can't really afford to change so the only real route is to modify.

 

For me the Raptor kit is great but I'm not prepared to tip that sort of $ into the car given that I'm likely to change it in the next 12-18 months anyway. I'm not going to get the payback on the $ invested and better off saving up the $ and tipping into a new car. So yes for me it's better to save my pennies at this point.

 

However for others that are looking to keep their cars longer it's certainly something worth considering. If you can get out of it for USD$3,000 and you're going to increase the outputs of your car by 30-50% then it looks like a reasonable bang for buck. You'd end up with a car that is quicker and lighter than a 3.6 for half as much (though you do void what is left of your warranty). All things to consider.

 

Plus not everyone is driving around a supercharged Legacy.

Tigger, that's only if you think us 3.6r guys aren't keeping up with you 2.5 guys every step of the way

 

I intend on doing strictly visual mods now, at 35k I'll debate the supercharger, and at 60k the 6mt will be going in. At that point the car will be paid off and I'll be using it as a second vehicle, maybe buying an SUV or something bigger as the primary.

 

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There was a guy locally that was running a raptor SC kit with E85 on a gen4 3.0 H6 wagon. That thing flew and shut a few of the tuned WRX boys up.

 

I'm interested to see a 3.6 get tuned and a SC kit put into it. I think it would be a bit of a sleeper for sure.

 

 

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I wish I could find someone who could tune the CVT in the area. I haven't found ANYONE who can help me with a tune.

 

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This is a good place to start - get yourself a Tactrix cable and a laptop: http://www.tactrix.com/index.php?page=shop.product_details&flypage=flypage.tpl&product_id=17&category_id=6&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=53&vmcchk=1&Itemid=53