300 WHP Goal

Alright so. i went stage 2 about 60,000 miles ago. Cobb dp, GS UP, Cobb Intake and bullet proofed the tmic. Im currently at 126,000 miles on my 5EAT. I was originally planning on getting to 400 WHP after a rebuild but i will no longer be getting a promotion at my job. So is it safe to skip the rebuild for my power goals and if so what should i do to get there? Sorry my goal now is 300 WHP.. Thank you

Youre probably gonna need to upgrade the turbo to get there. Even adding bigger intercooler and injectors and pump will still put you short of 300 I think. You can run a vf52 or 16/18g on stock engine with a solid tune. I dont think the factory turbo is big enough. Just my thoughts, best of luck!

I did a TD05 18G from BNR, along with a fmic to get there (I think). I dont have any dyno graphs to prove I hit 300whp, but I'm pretty sure I made it. My 5EAT started slipping after a while however, and my headgaskets slowly degraded over the course of a few years after these mods.

 

Id recommend looking into the Hexmods VB for the 5eat, if you wanna reliably push 300whp. Ive been running my 18G + E85 without any issues thanks to the VB only. I think youd be ok without a rebuild, but I'd start saving on the side. Just in case. Take my opinions with a grain of salt, I'm only speaking from experience. Good luck!

I have 280whp out of a vf52 on stock fueling on a heart breaker Mustang dyno. Any other dyno would have shown 300.

 

Think about reliability.

I have a similar setup as Max and I put down 275whp on a dyno that reads like a mustang. Stock injectors.

 

I will be installing larger injectors very shortly with an EBCS and a better recirculating BOV and it should read over 300 even on the mustang dyno once we push boost.

@sock what boost are you at for 275?

19.5 I'm pretty sure. I stupidly haven't had a boost gauge installed since the upgrade & tune, but that's what I remember my tuner setting it to. I am installing a dual AFR/Boost gauge with the new injectors.

On 93 right?

yes, I just checked my original thread, it was actually 19psi.

 

Here is my thread:

 

http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/got-my-06-outback-xt-dynod-vf52-stock-injectors-all-257276.html?t=257276

So is it safe to skip the rebuild for my power goals and if so what should i do to get there? Sorry my goal now is 300 WHP

 

Don't get too hung up on chasing a peak whp # like 300 on a 5eat. It will be an expensive endeavour. We make 10-15% less than MT cars in that range of power with same modifications. Getting the torque curve flat is more important. Most of the 260-290whp 5eat cars on the forum stick with a 52 or 16g. Keep it simple : )

Im going to suggest you get a dom 1.5, upgrade everything to support it and tune for 350/350 on pump. The jump from vf40 tp vf52 is not so large and the novelty wears off quickly for how much you invest. Target 50hp/tq more then you think you want in tune to 20 psi. The upgrade will be stronger than your expecting and your satisfaction will last longer and your total investment will be less provide the tune is good you stay on top of maintenance and your block doesn't lose it.

Im going to suggest you get a dom 1.5, upgrade everything to support it and tune for 350/350 on pump.

 

quick4dr uses that turbo, it's the one AT car I know of that runs this setup. He has a lot of threads to look at for further consideration.

 

OP, You could probably PM quick4dr and get an extensive response on what was done to the motor and transmission for this power.

 

http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/1-5xtr-tuned-246322.html

quick4dr uses that turbo, it's the one AT car I know of that runs this setup. He has a lot of threads to look at for further consideration.

 

OP, You could probably PM quick4dr and get an extensive response on what was done to the motor and transmission for this power.

 

http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/1-5xtr-tuned-246322.html

 

He will advocate the dom 1.5 harder then I will!

I don't disagree

 

He'll most likely give a decent estimate as to what it costs to get the drivability nailed down too.

I have a VF52, it feels like a more powerful (and slightly slower spooling VF40/46) for the type of driving I do (slow in town / city driving and fast on the freeways). I think I would give up spool for more power.

 

DOM1.5 is high on my list.

 

HOWEVER,

motor rebuilds are expensive. Once you go passed stock power levels (especially with old engines) there is not really anything such as "reliability). Just something to keep in mind.

 

I broke my engine stage 2 vf46 at 120k miles. It can happen.

Dumb question and slight thread highjack

 

Say a vf40 is set to provide a peak boost @ 19 psi. Suppose a vf52 peaks at the same boost level. Would they both generate the same peak power? I think I know the answer but still want to check...

I have a VF52, it feels like a more powerful (and slightly slower spooling VF40/46) for the type of driving I do (slow in town / city driving and fast on the freeways). I think I would give up spool for more power

 

I guess that's where you start drawing the line on how similar upgrades work between AT and MT transmissions. If I slammed the throttle on VF46 at 3000 in 3rd I would'nt get the punch until 3800 rpm. Exact same scenario with a VF52 and EBCS. The torque converter plays a big role on how the power starts on the auto.

 

I dunno, maybe I'm still all starry eyed and partial to the 52 keeping the front end lifted past 5k rpm.

Dumb question and slight thread highjack

 

Say a vf40 is set to provide a peak boost @ 19 psi. Suppose a vf52 peaks at the same boost level. Would they both generate the same peak power? I think I know the answer but still want to check...

 

Depends on other factors (timing etc), a lot of things I don't know about. But, the short answer is you will probably make more with a VF52.

Dumb question and slight thread highjack

 

Say a vf40 is set to provide a peak boost @ 19 psi. Suppose a vf52 peaks at the same boost level. Would they both generate the same peak power? I think I know the answer but still want to check...

 

 

 

Boost doesn't accelerate the car, torque does. You create more torque by ingesting more air, compressing and/or intercooling it more efficiently. If you look at a couple of compressor maps you'll see that the larger turbos either move the same mass of air vs. the smaller ones at a lower pressure ratio or more air at the same pressure ratio, all other factors being equal.

 

What I will warn about here is compressor efficiency on billet wheels. A lot of these don't have particularly high peak efficiency, but extend that rather average efficiency much higher up the pressure axis than their cast cousins. What that means is that they may blow the cast wheels out of the water at high pressure ratios but can actually do worse at lower PRs. This may be great if you have a built motor and/or are running E85, but can be a tie or even a net loss on gas and stock head bolts etc. where you are boost-limited. I can tell you for example the Dom 1.5 only really comes alive past about 18psi. Below that it feels much like an 18G. Beyond there it makes the 18G feel puny.

 

http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/turboi-wiki-twist-178684.html

He will advocate the dom 1.5 harder then I will!

 

And lay it out in layman's terms to better assist the OP.

I guess that's where you start drawing the line on how similar upgrades work between AT and MT transmissions. If I slammed the throttle on VF46 at 3000 in 3rd I would'nt get the punch until 3800 rpm. Exact same scenario with a VF52 and EBCS. The torque converter plays a big role on how the power starts on the auto.

 

I dunno, maybe I'm still all starry eyed and partial to the 52 keeping the front end lifted past 5k rpm.

 

 

I can go to WOT at 2500rpm and feel the vf52 begin making power and pull like a NA car pretty much all the way to redline. But normally when I want power I drop drop a gear or two and go WOT. There is no lag.

 

It's all in the tune.

 

I don't feel the turbo hit, it just pushes me back in the seat and from the time I push my right foot down.

On the highway, WOT in 5th, I have lifted a little, and still felt the car gaining speed faster then I wanted to be going, I have to lift my right foot more.

There's plenty of pull in in lower rpms to get me going. I have'nt driven a manual GT so my comparison might not be accurate. Just seems like you guys get your peak boost ~400rpm lower than I do. Granted, tune is on the conservative side.

 

 

 

It's all in the tune.

 

True, I have the same tuner as you ; )

I'll add, there is not much power below 2000rpm in any gear, but once the rev's hit 2400rpm, you can feel the power come on smoothly without any hit, it's very progressive and continuous.

I had to chuckle with Xtea's last comment "as long as your block doesn't lose it" and that is the rub good sir Love me some Dom 1.5 love though! I'm happy (for now) with the numbers the OP is seeking via my Vf52 set up. Running a better fuel pump and 740 injectors to get there though.

Agree with Max, the VF-52 is much smoother than the VF40/46. Significantly less of a torque wall.

 

But, I made the mistake of driving a Porsche turbo and a new M4. My car feels so slow now. Sure it's "fast", but it's not "holy, shit I can't accelerate because this car is too fast fast."

 

I had to chuckle with Xtea's last comment "as long as your block doesn't lose it" and that is the rub good sir Love me some Dom 1.5 love though!

 

Everything I read about them seems like they are great (although, a couple tuners on Nasioc say they are too small for the 2.5 block). However, Fahr-side's experience with their customer service makes me not like them. Maybe they just don't "do" email.