Rusted Rear Brake Lines - Subaru won't honor their recall?

No American car will ever be a measuring tool as far as reliability is concerned.

I'm glad we can agree on something

It is not a conflict of interest. I am not a business owner so I don't directly see that money. I hate doing brake lines. They are the most time consuming and tedious car repairs unless it's an easy one that runs along rear diffs on pickups.

Sorry, you said you did this for living and your mindset makes you come across like a typical shop owner, who would be the one benefiting form all these rusty lines.

This sounds like procrastination to me. If you look your car over all the time, you should have been aware of the rust long before it was a problem. That would have given you ample time to order whatever you need. Living in the boonies is not an excuse to overlook preventative maintenance.

 

I don't disagree about the longevity of said brake lines but at some point in time "you" as the owner should be responsible for taking care of your vehicle. This is not directed at any one person but to the forum as a whole.

Let me get this straight, Subaru gets caught redhanded for sub-par brake lines, government punishes with recall (WQG-43), Subaru "Fixes" the problem. A year later government says, no your fix wasn't good enough and punishes them with another recall (WQK-47). Subaru once again "fixes" the problem, but 3 years later brake lines are still failing and in your mind this is customers fault? I'm no anti-capitalist socialist, but I do believe in businesses owning up to their mistakes, especially when lives are at risk while using their products for their intended purpose.

I have an 05, which probably has has more recalled issues then your 08. Do you remember the 05 MT radiator fan relay burning up the ECU causing fans to be always on? Well there is a single recall for that, but Subaru replaced my ECU TWICE, years apart (one for previous owner one for me), because of that recall. That's what doing the right thing is, and I applaud Subaru for that (even though it was their mistake from day one). Funny thing is, ECU's are more expensive and fans running all the time didn't endanger anyone.

I don't disagree about the longevity of said brake lines but at some point in time "you" as the owner should be responsible for taking care of your vehicle. This is not directed at any one person but to the forum as a whole.

I didn't notice the lines getting worse because I trusted Subaru to remedy the issue, like thousands of Subaru owners out there who will find out the hard way too. Plus these specific rusted lines are way out of sight, you have to know where to look for them. None of the local Subaru guys that I've shown this to even knew about the brake line rust nor where to look.

I have an 05, which probably has has more recalled issues then your 08. Do you remember the 05 MT radiator fan relay burning up the ECU causing fans to be always on? Well there is a single recall for that, but Subaru replaced my ECU TWICE, years apart (one for previous owner one for me), because of that recall. That's what doing the right thing is, and I applaud Subaru for that (even though it was their mistake from day one). Funny thing is, ECU's are more expensive and fans running all the time didn't endanger anyone.

This is what I find puzzling. My 05 was affected by this issue and the previous owner had it repaired under the recall. Under my ownership the problem returned and Subaru covered half the cost of a new ECU. I'm surprised, given the seriousness of a brake failure, Subaru hasn't offered to assist the OP in this issue given they did so for my ECU issue (which I do not consider nearly as serious as the brake issue). Puzzling.

Replaced my lines this weekend, took about 5 hours for line replacement and bleeding.

When I dug in, got a clear view of the lines. Notice how the lines coming from inside the car are spotless, while the lines running to the calipers are almost gone. Since the two lines are are only inches apart from each other, I would have expected the body side to be in much worse shape, this tells me that they used inferior lines for the ones that run to the calipers.

http://legacygt.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=257121&stc=1&d=1508820325

While in there I noticed that the line were rusting everywhere it was connected to the body (since it was missing plastic covering at those portions).

http://legacygt.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=257122&stc=1&d=1508820325

Anyway, replaced them with Ni-Corp lines:

http://legacygt.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=257131&stc=1&d=1508820401

http://legacygt.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=257133&stc=1&d=1508820401

More details can be found over at my build thread.

...Notice how the lines coming from inside the car are spotless, while the lines running to the calipers are almost gone. Since the two lines are are only inches apart from each other, I would have expected the body side to be in much worse shape, this tells me that they used inferior lines for the ones that run to the calipers...

Not necessarily differences in quality of the lines. Corrosion can be a galvanic process meaning you have dissimilar metals electrically connected in the presence of an electrolyte.

Those lines running inside the car are not exposed to the elements nor to road salt and damp. Inside lines may also be more isolated electrically. It follows there is not much corrosion for them.

Makes me wonder since both are both connected to same metal block (I think it's brass, too heavy & dense to be copper), and both have same amount of steel lines exposed.

Either way, this reeks more of a design flaw. I need to get under my 2012 and see if it's just as bad.

Brakes failed on my 07 LGT on the highway a few weeks ago due to this issue. My girlfriend was driving alone at the time. Car was inspected earlier in the year by a dealer local to me.

Honestly, I think replacement should be mandatory and that 4g Legacy owners should plan for it around the 100k mark, especially in the Northeast.

Brakes failed on my 07 LGT on the highway a few weeks ago due to this issue. My girlfriend was driving alone at the time. Car was inspected earlier in the year by a dealer local to me.

 

Honestly, I think replacement should be mandatory and that 4g Legacy owners should plan for it around the 100k mark, especially in the Northeast.

Brakes failed on my 07 LGT on the highway a few weeks ago due to this issue. My girlfriend was driving alone at the time. Car was inspected earlier in the year by a dealer local to me.

 

Honestly, I think replacement should be mandatory and that 4g Legacy owners should plan for it around the 100k mark, especially in the Northeast.

Yikes dude. Something like that is the biggest thing that's holding me back from suggesting my girlfriend get into a legacy or an outback from this year range. Don't really want to think about what would happen if the car lost a brake line with just her, or just her and the kid in the car.

I'm gonna have to take a look at the brakes and lines on her Honda Fit next time I get a chance.

For me it was head gasket issues, hence I told people get turbo or 2010+ .

FWIW I think my next batch I should be able to do in about 3 hours

For me it was head gasket issues, hence I told people get turbo or 2010+ .

 

FWIW I think my next batch I should be able to do in about 3 hours

Next batch of head gaskets or brake lines, lol?

Things that just break the car are annoying for sure, but I'd rather get a phone call about "the car shit the bed, come pick me up so I can tell you that older cars are a bad idea" than find out it lost the brakes and piled into the back of another car.

Yikes dude. Something like that is the biggest thing that's holding me back from suggesting my girlfriend get into a legacy or an outback from this year range. Don't really want to think about what would happen if the car lost a brake line with just her, or just her and the kid in the car.

 

I'm gonna have to take a look at the brakes and lines on her Honda Fit next time I get a chance.

Yeah, it was definitely not cool and we had a pretty serious discussion about getting rid of the car afterwards. If anything like that ever happens again, we may stop buying Subaru for good.

Yeah, it was definitely not cool and we had a pretty serious discussion about getting rid of the car afterwards. If anything like that ever happens again, we may stop buying Subaru for good.

My mom's 2012 Legacy 2.5i dropped a valve guide somewhere in the mid-60k range. A 2.5i, CVT car, that doesn't burn oil and has been kept up to date on service, basically needed an engine before 100k. My point is that car has had a very easy life and is well taken care of.

3 weeks and a grand or so later (Subaru covered part of the repair, could have probably gotten more but jumped at the lower number) and the car was fixed, and hasn't missed a beat.

Just like with my car, and yours, once the issue has been fixed the car goes right back to being the wonderful vehicle you like so much, but some experiences just completely shake your confidence/enthusiasm for a vehicle.

I would be extremely surprised if she ends up in another subaru. If you ignore that time the car lunched the motor (or at least the top end) and was stranded on the side of the highway, it's probably been one of the best cars we've ever owned. If I had to guess, she'll be going back to a toyota product (like AWD Lexus sedan), because her old 2003 camry was troublefree right up until the moment my sister totaled it.

Any car is gonna have issues somewhere along the line you guys. If they made a perfect vehicle everyone would be driving it. They're man made machines, they're not infallible.

The Toyota Hilux begs to differ

Also, safety issues like this are not a "lol every car has issues" sort of deal. Mainly because this was clearly a manufacturer's design defect, not normal wear-and-tear. I get things rust, but find me any other car from 2005-2009 that commonly need brake lines replaced after <x> amount of miles, even if its lived in the northeast its whole life. I think that alone illustrates the point I'm trying to make.

The Toyota Hilux begs to differ

I threw a rod through the block on one that had 102k miles... Was actually my first vehicle. There is exception to every rule.

Hah, then again I was a complete dick when I was 16 and applaud that truck for taking the daily ass whooping for over a year before it committed suicide. It had already been on its roof, jumped over just about everything, and hydrolocked a couple times long before the engine finally went. I'd love to have me another one to treat a little nicer this time around

Also, safety issues like this are not a "lol every car has issues" sort of deal. Mainly because this was clearly a manufacturer's design defect, not normal wear-and-tear. I get things rust, but find me any other car from 2005-2009 that commonly need brake lines replaced after <x> amount of miles, even if its lived in the northeast its whole life. I think that alone illustrates the point I'm trying to make.

I'm not saying that Subaru is perfect, I'm just saying that yes all cars have problems. If someone says "oh my I'll never buy another Subaru just because this one had a problem" then they're in for a surprise when the next car they buy ends up with some other issue even if it isn't a brake related one. All cars have problems.

Not including inconvenient issues that modern cars that are prone to like broken plastic door handles, electrical issues, or bad transmissions, every car has potential safety issues as well. GMs are known for rusting through brake AND fuel lines, they just never had a recall giving the owners nothing to complain about. Brand new Toyotas were driving themselves WOT into brick walls not too long ago. Just look at all the Takata airbag issues going on in just about every car now it seems. How many electric cars have gone up in flames when parked in people's garages at night? I'll take a popped brake line over a house fire any day. You can't downshift and e-brake your way out of a structure fire...

.......You can't downshift and e-brake your way out of a structure fire...

Brand new Toyotas were driving themselves WOT into brick walls not too long ago.

To be fair, most of these were caused by idiots stacking up floor mats to the point that they were blocking the pedal. Just mashing the brake pedal/putting the car into neutral allowed it to stop just fine even with the throttle pinned. Tested it myself in several toyotas.

There was a woman that killed three pedestrians with her highlander fairly local to me while all of that was going on, and said the throttle stuck. Obviously it got a lot of attention, and people were speculating that it was related to the other "unintended acceleration" cases. Driver was wearing flip flops, which allegedly got stuck in the pedal. Would have happened in literally any car.

Brakes failed on my 07 LGT on the highway a few weeks ago due to this issue. My girlfriend was driving alone at the time. Car was inspected earlier in the year by a dealer local to me...

I was thinking about this and wondered about the dual-diagonal brake line setup. When the brake failure happened, was it a total loss of braking power, or did the dual-diagonal system allow the system to work with much longer stopping distances?

Well, we found out that the braking system is redundant so long as you have brake fluid feeding into the master cylinder. Braking distances become very long (I think it only brakes the rears?) with tons of pedal travel. Of course, during all this time, you are leaking fluid.

What happened with us is that once the fluid reservoir is emptied, you don't get any brake pressure at all. The 'brake' idiot light will go on in the dash and this is your signal to add brake fluid. My girlfriend was able to maneuver the car in heavy traffic with engine braking and the parking brake, but the experience really shook her up.

To be fair, most of these were caused by idiots stacking up floor mats to the point that they were blocking the pedal. Just mashing the brake pedal/putting the car into neutral allowed it to stop just fine even with the throttle pinned. Tested it myself in several toyotas.

From what I remember, the floor mat issue was just an scapegoat for the real issue, which was ECU related.

I was most disappointed in the LEO that unfortunately died with his family because he didn't think of putting it in neutral or turning the car off. I would expect at least some kind of emergency driving training for LEO's.

There was a woman that killed three pedestrians with her highlander fairly local to me while all of that was going on, and said the throttle stuck. Obviously it got a lot of attention, and people were speculating that it was related to the other "unintended acceleration" cases. Driver was wearing flip flops, which allegedly got stuck in the pedal. Would have happened in literally any car.

That almost happened to me, a girl I know was putting her flip flip/heels on while parking the car and pressed on the gas instead of brakes. Luckily the curb kind of slowed her down.

I was thinking about this and wondered about the dual-diagonal brake line setup. When the brake failure happened, was it a total loss of braking power, or did the dual-diagonal system allow the system to work with much longer stopping distances?

I got to play with this last weekend as I was a replacing the lines. When I tapped into the rear right line, 80% of the reservoir was drained there was about 20% left in the reservoir in a sub chamber. When I tapped into the left line, the rest drained out.

While dual diagonal system is nifty, it will only save you if one of your lines rips in the back, in my case both were about to go. I wonder if it would have been better to have a front and rear chambers instead.

I was thinking about this and wondered about the dual-diagonal brake line setup. When the brake failure happened, was it a total loss of braking power, or did the dual-diagonal system allow the system to work with much longer stopping distances?

The subaru pretty much had zero braking, even after I refilled the master cylinder.

When my honda popped a line, there was a ton of pedal travel, but in the last inch or so it would lock the remaining intact diagonal circuit.

Finally got around to fixing the burst line about 2 weeks ago. Wasn't too hard, all things considered. I definitely recommend getting a good flaring tool, so you don't have to stop halfway through and get a ride to the store for a new one. Also be warned, the AutoZone tool I bought at first was hot garbage. NAPA had a better version, but none looked as nice as the inline-style tool others have recommended on this thread.

For some reason I can't get my pics to upload ("Your submission could not be processed because a security token was missing"), so I threw up an imgur album for anyone interested: https://imgur.com/gallery/SqZFj

It looks like my line didn't blow at the two-way connector, but instead where the rubber coating was removed from the rear lines to connect them to the car. It would be a pretty simple thing to check for most anyone on this forum, so I'd suggest taking a peak next time you're under your car.