rebourne's '06 OBXT build thread

lol, nvm. found the answer i was looking for.

 

were any of them (other than the original) a subaru parts counter sensor?

 

First Denso and Bosch were from Amazon

Second Denso was off of BarManBean's part out

Third Denso is from Autozone.

 

I should bring this up in a more well visited thread, or make a new thread about it, but I ain't got time to deal with that just now. I want to do my own research first, also.

Edited March 22, 2018 by rebourne

Following. Somewhere between this and Oldskoolbiker's build is my ideal OBXT. (now to convince the wife that her Outback "needs some work.")

Long time; No updates.

 

 

Update time. A one month social media break turned into 6+ months.

 

 

Meanwhile I was trying to chase down OBXT oil usage. Leak down is solid, PCV replaced. Still using too much oil. Looked into the TMIC and was no oil.

Over labor day weekend decide to drop the down pipe and look for oil. No oil... Pull the TMIC turbo side... hrmm a little oil.

 

 

Pull exit side of TMIC. AH HA!

 

 

 

 

 

 

Turbo is out. Dropping it off for a rebuild tomorrow, if all goes to plan.

 

 

 

 

 

TBH, I might have it towed to my shop to have it re-installed...

 

 

time with family > knuckles > frustration > money

report back in 1k on the clutch breakin. just letting you know that someones interested.

 

i also have lugging. maybe O2... interesting.

 

OOOOH!!! the clutch update is WAY overdue!

 

In all honesty it took way way longer to break in than I thought it would. Nearly 3k miles, and I am not joking. There were a couple 200+ mile trips that didn't have much break in opportunities. Maybe my style of driving and the traffic I encounter is not great for breaking it in quickly, but it was rough for the first 1.5k miles.

 

The worst was uphill stop light freeway entrances, and this one uphill right hander I had to regularly make from a stop. In both cases the clutch would shudder and shake the whole car. Like a solid hub 3 puck. I had to resort to holding the car with the e-brake and giving it more gas and slip than I felt I should have to. Usually I'd smell a little clutch if i got the revs up enough to not shudder.

 

It slowly, very slowly, got better and better. I'm more than decent at the e-brake uphill get away, but I shouldn't have to do it on every slight hill. And that right turn up hill was crazy the way it shuddered.

 

I'm 4k miles in, and all that is gone though. It's nearly as smooth as a stock clutch, with a hint of shudder once in a while. My knee jerk shudder reaction is so quick now though, that I half clutch and add more revs at the first hint of a shudder. I'm trying to unlearn that, lol.

 

I have yet to get back on the E85 to see if it can handle the power. When you get it wrong it will still slip and stink to high heaven like any other organic OEM(like) clutch I've had on any other car. Maybe I babied it too much? Or maybe I slipped it too much early on? No idea with my sample case of one.

 

Too soon to say if I would buy it again.

Too soon to say if I would recommend it.

However, I would not, yet, say "stay away".

 

 

Lightened flywheel:

 

I don't notice it at all. Does it have something to do with the above? /shrug

 

BUT! I do get more false misfire CELs than I am happy with.

It's not crazy, but I think the count is 4. Worse when it was cooler. The recipe for a CEL is colder morning temps, and pull out of my driveway without warming up then get stuck at a long light two blocks later. Boom: CEL. Car is a bit rough though in those circumstances. Good thing is it hasn't happened since it got above 50s in the morning.

Totally forgot to post this. Back in November I installed Project Mu NS400s all the way around. These are the low dust ones.

 

Front: PS4F914

Rear: PS4R914

 

Project Mu NS400s and Centric Rotors

 

 

Update!

 

These are amaze ballz. (*)

 

I will have these on all my cars before the end of 2019. (**)

 

/end

 

* they are not a track pad. probably not a canyon pad either, with oem OBXT calipers and rotors. But they are great for the street, and are really really low dusting.

** I need these on our EvoX. It's current pads are a dust nightmare. I could justify NS400 just in weekly wheel washing time/expense alone. Less than 6 months = paid for.

Edited September 5, 2018 by rebourne

Turbo is at Socal Porting for the stage 2 (11blade, big 16g, porting) treatment. Should be mailed back to me in a week.

 

 

My VF52 definitely was leaking oil through the seals. Which makes Also looks like it had seen some low oil in it's previous ebay past. Rebuild should be a good thing.

Edited September 6, 2018 by rebourne

OOOOH!!! the clutch update is WAY overdue!

 

The worst was uphill stop light freeway entrances, and this one uphill right hander I had to regularly make from a stop. In both cases the clutch would shudder and shake the whole car. Like a solid hub 3 puck. I had to resort to holding the car with the e-brake and giving it more gas and slip than I felt I should have to. Usually I'd smell a little clutch if i got the revs up enough to not shudder.

 

This was my experience with my last clutch and caused me to burn it out in 20k miles. It never got past the shuddering stage / burning stage on the slightest uphill starts.

 

My Exedy OEM replacement has been much better. Of course I am only subjugating it to VF52+DP+TMIC power levels. But, it handles that and uphill starts a lot better.

 

Did you get your AC etc all worked out?

Hrmmm, hope this one lasts. It's pretty good now.

 

AC is all good. The work done in March is holding up fine:

 

https://legacygt.com/forums/showpost.php?p=5767835&postcount=237

 

 

 

Next up is my power steering pump though. It's leaking slightly and the belt squeaks a little at full lock when cold.

Turbo is taking an extra day or so, so I won't have to consider installing it this weekend.

My VF52 after the Socal Porting Stage 2 treatment. Equipped with 11 blade EVO 3 16g sized compressor wheel. (aka big 16g ???)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Currently the difficult parts of a turbo install are done. I still need to attach the TMIC, downpipe and heat shield.

what did they do for the wastegate entry in the turbine? always heard that it helped to round the leading edge and leave the trailing edge sharp, so it's easier to pull gas out of the main turbine path and into the wastegate. can also open it up a little to let it out better. increased control of boost.

 

helps to have a cat too.

When he had my turbo apart he showed me with his finger how he ports that area, but I can't tell you if it's like you are describing or not. But he did say that the rounding the sharp edge helps the gases get into the wastegate, because the sharp edge tends to cause the flow to not want to turn the corner.

socal porting does a great job, they did my VF52 a while back. Did you coat the hot side also?

Did you get a rebuild or one of the Stage upgrades?

 

 

 

I forgot to discuss coatings, and he didn't ask. Oh well.

can send it to swaintech for some lightning. ~$125 for a turbine coating, and it's super easy to remove and replace. keep the heat in and look good doing it.

TL;DR: What was meant to be a simple post turned into a therapist couch without resolution. Proceed at your own risk. Comments, straight talk, and alternatives are welcome.

 

 

 

I've been taking my time re-installing the rebuilt turbo, or I was to mentally tired to work on it, which ever way to look at it. Today it's in! No leaks and it survived it's first test drive.

 

I used the hold the gas pedal to the floor while cranking trick to prime the turbo with oil (3-5 times for 10-15 seconds each of cranking. the injectors won't fire if the gas pedal is at WOT).

 

BUT, the check engine light came on maybe due to that method? Normally not a big deal, but training my 850cc side feeds to idle, catch the falling rpms when clutching, and all those challenging part throttle things take time. Driving around the neighborhood and staying off the fast streets, it stalled at least 12 times. Probably closer to 15 or so before it had learned enough to catch the falling rpms with the 850s. I think it's worse with the lightened flywheel, but only a percentage more so. It learns somwhate faster when driving to work, but I wanted to be very gentle and in control of the situation, not on a busy freeway. None of the stalls were in a dangerous place, although I got some confused and dirty looks from people trying to get into their driveways.

 

Assuming the next 200 miles of gentle turbo break in go without incident, the real problem has to be solved. I am completely bipolar on what to do about tuning this thing. It boils down to:

 

Keep the DW850cc side feeds or convert to bigger top feeds.

 

sub plot #1: TGV deletes ( I have stock TGVs )

 

sub plot #2: Cobb Flex Fuel kit is due end of '18 to early '19

 

 

850s:

On E85 I was already maxing out my 850s, so this turbo won't be able to shine on the corn. I'll make more on 91, but no more on E85. Idle isn't perfect, and it pops and burps here and there, meaning a better spray pattern injector (IE: only available in top feed) will make the car more civil and factory like feeling. Hey, don't get me wrong, it's not a bad set up. I just keep thinking (from what I read), it could be better...

 

TGV deletes: would likely help on 91. I'm guessing mostly pointless on a E85 tune due to the limitation of the 850s.

 

Tuning: Get tuned on 91, with the option to do an E85 tune if there's a feeling there is some room left in the injectors. One of the tuners I am considering, it's only $100 ($150 if tuning for E85 FF) for the E85 tune after the 91 tune, so might be worth it even if not getting the most out of E85.

 

Flex Fuel: If I don't get E85 tuned, then no need! If I do get the E85 tune, when Cobb releases the flex fuel kit, it would be great to have for the safety, and convenience.

 

Min Cost: $500 ($500-700 for 91 tune depending on tuner)

Midway #1: $700 for 91 + E85 tune

Midway #2: $880 TGV deletes + 91 tune

Max Cost: $1980 ($750-900 for 91 + E85 tune, $280 TGV deletes, $800 flex fuel kit)

 

 

Top feed 1050Xs:

The ID (or IAG) side feed to top feed conversion kit with ID 1050Xs is calling my name. Many rave about the Bosch injectors, and these are the next generation. The tough part is the entire plug n play kit is $1040, every where you look. I even tried to call in a favor for a better price and ID has everyone on lock. The promise is that they will idle smoother, part throttle will be better, and 1050s should be more than enough head room on E85 for this setup on this turbo. I have forged pistons, but still stock rods, bearings, and head bolts. High 300s to low 400s (on a mustang dyno) is the max I can expect my motor to hold. These injectors with this turbo should deliver that on E85, and bring refinement to daily part throttle driving.

 

TGV deletes: It'd be shame not to do them at this level. What is being left on the table? I'd always wonder, and not smart to add them later and retune or dyno.

 

Tuning: 91 + E85 tune for flex fuel ranges from $750 to $1100, locally

 

Flex Fuel: With this setup I'd be dumb not to get the FF kit when it comes out.

 

Min Cost: $1540 ($500-700 for 91 tune depending on tuner, $1040 for the ID 1050x kit)

Max Cost: $3020 ($1040 for the ID 1050x kit. $700-900 for 91 + E85 tune, $280 TGV deletes, $800 flex fuel kit)

 

 

I've gone back and forth on these numbers so many times. Do I want to spend another $3k on this car (and just for fueling)? Can I stand it if I don't do it, and know how good the car could be?

 

 

This was supposed to be a 5 minute post.

Bosch injectors (and thus topfeed) - no experience, but given their low pulse width civility and clearly defined behavior, they seem like the best option given something above stock (although a luxury item in this case, given the complete conversion necessary). I've got topfeed DW850s, and am planning on moving to bosch only for their low pulse width behavior and simplicity in tuning.

 

TGV deletes - i feel this is only useful for the two inputs to the ECU/logging (wideband, boost, whatever...). or if your motor/sensor is bad. not sure that the tiny change in flow is worth anything, and the retune for the difference. but if going topfeed, i can't see a reason not to.

 

Flex Fuel/E85 - I love E85, but unless you'll only run E85, i can't handle the pain of switching maps or the uncertainty/sloppiness of the FF kit. I wish there was more E85 available to switch over to it 100%, and since there isn't (for me), i'll always be on regular old premium.

 

just my 2 cents.

Your going down the rabbit hole I gave up on after seeing what is involved. Was not in my budget to experiment/tune/revert to stock every 2 years. Gave up on ever running E85 in the process. Even going larger fuel pump and injectors (740cc or larger) for more head room had it's disadvantages would have negative impact on daily driving, according to the last tuner I was talking to. Interested in the journy of others, just not in the cards for me. At this point would rather save for my next shortblock replacement.

 

Kinda learned my lesson using racing carbs on my bike for the street. Although tuned to the best we could without custom needles it was unforgiving in town. Out of n the road they ran great. Swap them out for the stock carb and after getting the jetting right worked great in all aspects.

 

Sometimes you have to pick a compromise.

if you had stock topfeeds (07+ car), i'd say stay stock for fueling. period. and take a little hit in performance and run what you can on premium.

 

but alas...

Edited September 25, 2018 by Flinkly

Updated my failing O2 saga. https://legacygt.com/forums/showpost.php?p=5773620&postcount=247

 

 

9/26/18 150151 Denso failing, replaced with new Autozone free exchange Denso (4277 miles)

 

 

Nearly 4300 miles is a good run for me.

I feel like oem might be the way to go. I have 150k on my OEM sensor. It's working fine so far.

 

I thought a lot about that path and what I wanted to do. Took the 5k I was going to spend on the car and bought a mtb instead. Figured as I am getting older my hobbies should revolve more around reasons to be active.

This will be my last non OEM, although the thought of trashing OEM O2s at Subaru prices isn't comforting.

 

 

 

Ordered the 1050cc side feed to top feed parts on ebay with today's 15% off code.

After a run of bad off brand O2 sensors, I only trust an OEM, direct from my local Subaru Parts counter.

 

That EBay code was right on time. I finally ordered the rest of the Whiteline parts to get ready for my Spec B suspension swap.

 

Did you decide to go with the 1050x so you can eventually run e85? Looking forward to seeing more progress on this build. (You’re one my build inspirations.)

Did you decide to go with the 1050x so you can eventually run e85?

 

TL;DR: yes.

 

 

Long version

 

I started an E85 etune back in 2017 with Mike from TA, on DW 850 side feeds (what I have now). We barely got 3 or 4 revisions in when the stock clutch started to slip. I went back to 91 and the clutch held fine for a long while. Clutch is now upgraded, but then oil vanishing was starting to really bother/worry me, so I didn't go back to E85.

 

 

Hopefully the turbo rebuild will clear up the oil usage.

Hopefully the car will run a little smoother with the newer tech injectors.

 

 

 

(You’re one my build inspirations.)

Thanks man! That made my whole weeked, reading that.

Those 1050cc injectors should really wake up your setup on E85. Can't wait for the results.