Jump to content
LegacyGT.com

CovertRussian's 2012 Outback 2.5i 6MT Build


Recommended Posts

I usually go 70mph, my last good 87 gas mileage on a A-B-A trip was 30.59mpg. Once I put new tires on unfortunately that dropped, could be less efficient tread or too much tread (new tires have a lot of tread flex, creating extra friction, which leads to MPG loss). So once they wear in more, I'll see what they do :).

 

I still haven't topped my 93 octane gas mileage though, which is 33mpg with previous tires. Our stock tunes are tuned for 93 gas, highway and for power, so no surprise that 87 feels so sluggish and gets worse MPG. I've been trying to find the optimal 87 timing.

 

I'm bone stock power wise, even air filter is a Subaru OEM. When I bought the car it had major knocking, that was the timing belt tensioner going out, and cheap 87 gas from dealer. Once I replaced the timing belt and switched to 93, car was much happier. After about a year of that I started retuning it to be happy on 87. I'm now running about 10* less timing transitional zones, and it made the car happier due to less knock.

 

I'm a little surprised that seafoam and Heet helped, maybe you just had really bad gas before, and now it's better gas?

05 LGT 16G 14psi 290whp/30mpg (SOLD)

12 OBP Stock 130whp/27mpg@87 Oct

00 G20t GT28r 10psi 250whp/36mpg

22 Ascent STOCK

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 142
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

I think it's a combination of water in the gas, bad gas, and old gas from when I bought it gunking everything up. In addition to crappy gas in general, I think we end up with a lot of water in our gas up here due to condensation from the huge temperature swings we see. It can be in the mid 90's in June and the coldest I've seen here personally is -62F.

 

Interesting that the tune appears to be set for 93 octane, I've suspected it myself just from the engine's specs, but unfortunately the highest we can get here is 90. I'll have to pick up a cable and do some datalogging this summer so I can see what's going on instead of just feeling it out.

 

Are those LCA bushings? I'm planning on a suspension refresh this spring too, mainly struts and maybe the stiffer 2013+ springs.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Oh man, that would do it! Plus with ethanol it's even worse, since it absorbs water.

 

Every single modern (2005+) NA Subaru that I've pulled learning views from were down on IAM (knock) on recommended gas. One of the 3.0r's would even have low IAM on 93 gas! I believe Subaru went aggressive with tune for response and economy. Surely enough my car would be sluggish with 87 and much peppier with premium (93). After I retuned it for 87 gas, it finally became peppier with 87 too, but I don't think it's 100% there.

 

I also could never get the 130whp (175bhp) on 87 gas, it would always be 110-115whp (150bhp). But with 93 I would get 125-130whp! The car is rated on 93 gas but is sold with 87 gas in mind and always down on power haha.

 

Those are indeed front LCA reward bushings. I just got them installed too and they are awesome! Pics to come soon!

05 LGT 16G 14psi 290whp/30mpg (SOLD)

12 OBP Stock 130whp/27mpg@87 Oct

00 G20t GT28r 10psi 250whp/36mpg

22 Ascent STOCK

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Finally SuperPro released their 2010-2014 bushings. After waiting for them to arrive stateside, I was excited to get them in ASAP. The 05-09 Prothanes worked for a while, but have been creaking loudly for a while.

 

http://legacygt.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=260620&stc=1&d=1515650317

 

I was hoping to salvage the Prothanes, but with them being retrofitted + cold, they ripped as I was pushing them out.

http://legacygt.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=260621&stc=1&d=1515650317

 

Superpro's pressed in:

http://legacygt.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=260615&stc=1&d=1515648549

 

And Installed:

http://legacygt.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=260618&stc=1&d=1515648549

 

The how to post can be found here: How To (2010-14): Install Front Lower Control Arm Bushings

1440499944_SuperProSPF4863K_001.thumb.jpg.154f11c52ea177af9b4a12932f85fd2a.jpg

20180108_201126.thumb.jpg.ede1ebbcea890be8726156bdd4112482.jpg

Edited by covertrussian

05 LGT 16G 14psi 290whp/30mpg (SOLD)

12 OBP Stock 130whp/27mpg@87 Oct

00 G20t GT28r 10psi 250whp/36mpg

22 Ascent STOCK

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Kinda Rushing through this as I am at work, but I just read through your "Bad Grounds" post from 2017. Do you think the grounds have helped the life of the rear bearings?

 

I have #4 to replace in 4 years between an 09 legacy and my 08 outback.... If you really think it helps, I might add to the todo list for spring car-cleanup.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Sadly I won't know for a while, this is a waiting game :lol:. Basically if my other rear bearing lasts another 25-50k miles, I would say it worked, since usually if one bearing goes the other one is not that far behind it. Sometimes even the replacement bearings will fail quickly (because the issue was not the bearing it self)

 

On my Legacy GT, the two rear wheel bearings died within 300 miles of each other. I replaced them and added grounds to the rear diff and they have been happy for 30k miles so far.

05 LGT 16G 14psi 290whp/30mpg (SOLD)

12 OBP Stock 130whp/27mpg@87 Oct

00 G20t GT28r 10psi 250whp/36mpg

22 Ascent STOCK

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If anyone following is interested in a set of SuperPro LCA bushings, like I just installed, at a discount, Cygnus Performance is giving us a bulk discount. Details can be found here. Edited by covertrussian

05 LGT 16G 14psi 290whp/30mpg (SOLD)

12 OBP Stock 130whp/27mpg@87 Oct

00 G20t GT28r 10psi 250whp/36mpg

22 Ascent STOCK

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Finally SuperPro released their 2010-2014 bushings. After waiting for them to arrive stateside, I was excited to get them in ASAP. The 05-09 Prothanes worked for a while, but have been creaking loudly for a while.

 

Thanks for the details on these, and for the discount info.

 

Do you have a sense of if the superpro LCA bushes restrict wheel travel towards the end ranges? I don't go rock crawling or anything close to that in my '11 OB, but I want to avoid an overly stiff bushing (compared to stock spring setup) that might send too much stress into the frame mounts.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

That's a really good question actually. I don't rock crawl, but I do go offroading to get to camping spots.

 

Here is what I saw personally when articulating the control arm and trying to install everything together.

 

Stock Style Bushings: I never had to remove/reinstall LCA with stock bushings on my 2012, but I did do it on a friends 2006. I could fairly easily move the arm and assemble everything together (no binging), I was worried that I might be damaging the brand new stock bushings while articulating it though.

 

Now keep in mind that with 05-09, it's MUCH easier to install the control arms due to no subframe, you just lift it up into place. On 2010+ you can't do that, you have to insert it horizontally first, this is where the binding issues start happening.

 

Prothane or other Style "Void" Style Bushings (Non made for 2010+, I tested 05-09): These bushings have voids that allow for limited movement, this wasn't enough for my 2012 Outback though. I had a heck of a time getting the control arm installed in subframe, and getting the ball joint to fit in. Actually I physically couldn't do it, I had to remove the strut bolts, then insert balljoint/knuckle into the LCA. Afterwards I had to put my full body weight onto lowering the control arm/knuckle to align the knuckle with strut holes, this took about an hour alone! I was dreading the day I had to do any strut/knuckle/LCA work with those bushings in place, luckily SuperPro finally released theirs!

 

This is probably why we didn't see bushings for 2010+ for so long though, void design doesn't work well at all in this application.

 

Travel? If I could barely install it, I bet the travel was greatly impacted, I ran these for 1.5 years, with some offroading, luckily I don't see any damage.

 

SuperPro/Avo Convex Style Bushings: I was able to fairly easily install the lower control arm into the ball joint/knuckle, without removing the strut. I let the strut/knuckle go into full droop, then pressed the control arm down by hand, and aligned the ball joint stud with the control arm. Took about 5 min on each side, very easy!

 

I didn't test full rebound, but since it had so much full droop movement, I don't see it having issues going into full rebound, which is usually a few inches less travel too. I don't see you needing rebound as much as droop while offroading though.

 

Overall I'm very satisfied so far, compared to stock or Prothane retrofits. But I haven't had a chance to do the test of time with these. If something fails, SuperPro is usually very good and quick to respond (I've had A+++ experience with them on my Nissan's).

05 LGT 16G 14psi 290whp/30mpg (SOLD)

12 OBP Stock 130whp/27mpg@87 Oct

00 G20t GT28r 10psi 250whp/36mpg

22 Ascent STOCK

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks for the detail. Sounds like the SuperPro bushes should be safe. I'm not looking to make this Outback into something it's not meant to be, but I would like it to not feel like it's wobbling down the road.

 

Any thoughts on similar improvements to tighten up the rear suspension without rebuilding the entire assembly with new bushings? If I hit a manhole or similar break in pavement with one side or the other, I feel the tail of the car shift it's weight to the outside. Not exactly confidence inspiring and nevermind what it does on a bridge seam in a bend at highway speed. I know the shocks and struts need to be replaced but they're worn, not leaking/damaged.

 

I've had the car less than a year, 80K on it. Was at the dealer for an included oil change recently where I asked them to inspect and test drive. No damaged parts, and "drives like they all do". Great, thanks.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

That's weird, my 2012 with 100k suspension is MUCH more stable then the 2006 OB that I worked on, I even installed brand new struts all around on the 2006.

 

Only thing I did notice about the rear is, it works like a rear beam. When going over the speed bumps the rear doesn't slowly descend, it just drops. My 2005 LGT with older struts doesn't experience that...

05 LGT 16G 14psi 290whp/30mpg (SOLD)

12 OBP Stock 130whp/27mpg@87 Oct

00 G20t GT28r 10psi 250whp/36mpg

22 Ascent STOCK

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 months later...

Hey covertrussian! I just received a PM regarding your Chassis Grounding discussion that I posted in the DIY section. I thought maybe it would be more appropriate for you to respond in this thread.

 

Hey - so I was looking at the 5th gen maintenance thread (http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/5th-gen-diy-maintenance-and-repair-259742.html) and saw a big entry you had added in there ascribing bearing damage to stray current corrosion. Looking at the images, it's clearly not that - it's just spalling of the bearing race (a very common failure mechanism for bearings - you can probably google image search that and find a gazillion similar images) - the thread it sends you to is actually pretty entertaining, suggesting there is arcing going on, etc.

 

Stray current corrosion is seen when you have a current/voltage source that can shortcut to ground (or to a lower potential source) through the part being attacked - it generally drives enhanced oxidation locally on the surface of the part. It's not uncommon to see on pipes near power transmission lines, electric motors, etc., as well as in instances where an active cathodic protection system is in use, and the rectifier freaks out.

 

Stray current corrosion is not something you are going to see across a wheel bearing in a car - it's not physically possible - the wheel bearing is pretty well grounded across the structure by the bearings between the races - there's not potential to drive a potential difference of the magnitude to support any sort of corrosion. (this would be different if we were talking about a higher power AC system, rather than a low voltage DC system, such as a typical car) Even if we suppose the bearing was totally fried due to wear, and the bearings were no longer in contact with the races, the inner race would be floating - in other words, it isn't tied to ground (except when the bearings are in place) - or if you think of it as a circuit, it isn't serving (any physically can't serve) as a load between the positive and negative terminals on the battery.

 

Anyway, was going through the thread and saw what looked like a failure analysis on a part, and took a look - I just wanted to point out that calling that "stray current corrosion" and suggesting that extra ground leads will fix it is blatantly incorrect.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 4 weeks later...

I'm not an electrical engineer, thus can't argue against that, I just have to take the word of other engineers that say that bad grounds do kill bearings in other industries too.

 

The true test will be the test of time, if my right side bearing lives much longer then my left side did then I would say the grounding kit really worked (though if it doesn't, that could mean that right side was already damaged before the grounding kit install). Especially since LGT's rear bearings died within 10k miles of each other right as the chassis hit 100k miles (which is another test, car now has 45k on aftermarket bearings and grounding kit).

05 LGT 16G 14psi 290whp/30mpg (SOLD)

12 OBP Stock 130whp/27mpg@87 Oct

00 G20t GT28r 10psi 250whp/36mpg

22 Ascent STOCK

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Especially since LGT's rear bearings died within 10k miles of each other right as the chassis hit 100k miles (which is another test, car now has 45k on aftermarket bearings and grounding kit).

 

On my 2009 Legacy, One bearing died around 60k. The other was well over 100k. On my 2008 OBXT, I replaced one at 112k, and the same one again at 138k.

 

I was sitting thinking the other day if sliding the car around in the snow is bad for the bearings/hubs. Often times I'm sliding the rear end around for fun on an uncovered back road right onto a plowed road, basically going from minimal traction to high. That sideways shock of the rear end grabbing traction is not the way the unit is designed to move.........:confused:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If you think about it, your front wheel bearings see that kind of a shock all the time, especially if you understeer a lot, my FWD turbo car would need bearings monthly otherwise ;). In theory, if your axle nut is tight and there is no movement, there shouldn't be enough deflection to do any damage in the back.

 

So a better comparison is my old 04 FXT: I replaced the rear left wheel bearing at about 160k miles with a Timken bearing (brand I used on Legacy too), sold it to a friend (before I knew about grounding kits), it went bad again at ~180k. Best comparison would be to install grounding kit and another Timken bearing, but he needed it done asap so he opted out for Duralast one, still without grounding kit, so we'll see how long that lasts.

05 LGT 16G 14psi 290whp/30mpg (SOLD)

12 OBP Stock 130whp/27mpg@87 Oct

00 G20t GT28r 10psi 250whp/36mpg

22 Ascent STOCK

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If you think about it, your front wheel bearings see that kind of a shock all the time, especially if you understeer a lot, my FWD turbo car would need bearings monthly otherwise ;). In theory, if your axle nut is tight and there is no movement, there shouldn't be enough deflection to do any damage in the back.

.

 

True but with the fronts and understeer its less of a sudden shock as it is caused by rotating the steering wheel.. With the rears I at times drive like gentleman and slide that beeyotch from snow right on to pavement.

 

I'm an IT nerd though. A lot of my troubleshooting methods have roots in that industry so I could be heading this direction :spin:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm an IT nerd though. A lot of my troubleshooting methods have roots in that industry so I could be heading this direction :spin:

 

Ha! Same here, been in the IT industry for almost 15 years.

05 LGT 16G 14psi 290whp/30mpg (SOLD)

12 OBP Stock 130whp/27mpg@87 Oct

00 G20t GT28r 10psi 250whp/36mpg

22 Ascent STOCK

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 3 weeks later...

Went to replace the rotors this weekend, turns out that my 17" wheel Outback 2.5i Premimum has 16" front rotors and pads. Thus I got the rear replaced but front stock parts went back on until I figure it out.

 

On a bright side I can use those parts on the Legacy GT, on a not so bright side, I just replaced the rotors and pads on the Legacy :lol:

 

On a bright side, the 16" rotors like 8lbs lighter then the 17" ones. So at least I have that going for me.

05 LGT 16G 14psi 290whp/30mpg (SOLD)

12 OBP Stock 130whp/27mpg@87 Oct

00 G20t GT28r 10psi 250whp/36mpg

22 Ascent STOCK

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The 16" rotors and pads arrived and it finally stopped flooding us (one of the nastiest rainstorms/floods I've ever seen living here).

 

As mentioned earlier, in Feb of this year I bought new rotors, all websites said that 17" wheel Outbacks (including 2.5i Premium's) use the bigger legacy brakes, thus I ordered OEM rotors (for '12 Outback 2.5i Prem) and Akebono pads that fit that criteria. Last week I tried to install them, to find out that they simply wont clear the caliper bracket and brake pads are too big for the bracket too.

 

Not wanting to waste more money on dealer OEM parts, I went with Centric Premium (part number 120.47021) this time around. Here is how they compare to the bigger LGT style rotors.

 

16" wheel rotor left, 17" wheel rotor (26300AG02A) right:

attachment.php?attachmentid=265677&stc=1&d=1528082438

 

Ontop of each other:

attachment.php?attachmentid=265678&stc=1&d=1528082438

 

Side by side, 16" wheel left, 17" wheel right:

attachment.php?attachmentid=265679&stc=1&d=1528082438

 

Weight wise OEM 16" rotors are 16.6lbs (they still have plenty of material on them, but developed a nasty wobble hence I am replacing them)

attachment.php?attachmentid=265680&stc=1&d=1528082438

 

Centric Premium 120.47021 came in at 16.6lbs too:

attachment.php?attachmentid=265681&stc=1&d=1528082438

 

The 17" wheel rotors (26300AG02A) come in at 22.8lbs

attachment.php?attachmentid=262365&d=1519533258

 

Finally these installed without any thrills with Akebono ACT929 pads

attachment.php?attachmentid=265682&stc=1&d=1528082438

 

Went for a test drive and before even bedding them in they stop great already, better then the bigger 17" wheel rotors that are on my 2005 LGT :lol:

 

On the bright side, these 16" wheel rotors are 6.2lbs lighter each, meaning they have 12.4lbs less total rotational mass! This would lead to easier acceleration/braking and better gas mileage (in theory).

20180603_182449.thumb.jpg.4f0980d3db7cb4c7d8b791d50e398ac2.jpg

20180603_182441.jpg.511600a53357bb90b726e77ca51e5c89.jpg

20180603_182508.thumb.jpg.8e7d02dbb8c0de400d98c0ac1758d904.jpg

20180603_180745.thumb.jpg.dd31644bda31021e628f4888f89cc722.jpg

20180603_180823.thumb.jpg.4335b734ea3098c233d3ffec64bca4a8.jpg

20180603_181334.thumb.jpg.6dc7a4f31db2ab0ece03c134681c4640.jpg

05 LGT 16G 14psi 290whp/30mpg (SOLD)

12 OBP Stock 130whp/27mpg@87 Oct

00 G20t GT28r 10psi 250whp/36mpg

22 Ascent STOCK

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 1 month later...

Besides the brakes I haven't done much to the car, nice having a car that doesn't need fixing often :lol:.

 

I do have some MPG testing number though. Ever since I got new tires: 235/55/17 over the stock 225/60/17, my MPG has dropped (even after correcting for wrong speedometer). Could be less efficient tread, or simply more tread = more flex = more rolling resistance. Anyway I started testing with stock tune and 93 gas again since I would get 30mpg more often with that vs 87.

 

Here are some data, all with stock tune going to the same city:

87 Octane: 24.15mpg (Speed: Mostly 75mph, Temps: 51-68F, half evening half night, lights 100%, AC 100%, Wind: 10mph avg)

93 Octane: 25.76mpg (Speed: Mostly 75mph, Temps: 55-58F, half evening half night, lights 100%, AC 100%, Wind: 12mph avg)

 

Since this stretch of highway has a mountain range to cross, 93 gas provides more torque (due to less timing retard), thus MPG went up. That's still a far cry from 30-31mpg I've gotten before, but I'll admit before it was mostly during the day and at 70mph. Which lead me to do the next test:

 

Mostly 70mph: 29.16mpg (87 Octane, Temps: 85-91F, All Day, Lights 0%, AC 100%, Wind: 10mph avg)

 

Ok now we are back to almost 30mpg again, I could blame wind for it being slightly under. Also the same trends I saw on my LGT are happening here too, warmer weather + day time driving improves MPG.

 

Next I wanted to see what the car on stock tune and 87 gas would do but this time going 75mph:

Mostly 75mph: 29.81mpg (87 Octane, Temps: 86-95F, All Day, Lights 0%, AC 100%, Wind: 4mph avg)

 

I was blown away that it even got over 29mpg! Less wind did help, but the bigger reason is: at 70mph the car revs at ~2.7k and doesn't have much torque, while at 75mph it's closer to 3k and has a bit more power even on 87 octane gas. Now I should say that the highway going over the mountain is speed limited at 65mph so for each test I'm going 71mph tops, thus it's 75mph helping on hilly parts of the highway.

 

 

If it wasn't such a pain to switch octanes I would do the same exact test with 93 gas, but it can take me weeks to drain all the 87 gas :lol:. I'll first try to wrap my head around the stock tune and see if I can fine tune 87 map to retard less timing (and loose less torque).

05 LGT 16G 14psi 290whp/30mpg (SOLD)

12 OBP Stock 130whp/27mpg@87 Oct

00 G20t GT28r 10psi 250whp/36mpg

22 Ascent STOCK

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Covert, good stuff! What tires did you go with for 235/55R17? We have been running the same size for a year now. I think it's a balanced comfort/cruising/handling tire size option for our gen Outback.

 

Funny, we finally swapped out the brakes I've been hoarding over the past 2 years. A bit different route than you, but I went ahead and used:

 

-larger 3.6R/GT/2015+WRX rotors/calipers on front (old 11.6" -> 12.4")

-hair larger but ventilated 3.6R/GT/2013+BRZ rotors/calipers on rear (old 11.3" -> 11.4")

 

OEM pads all around, but on some DBA front and KNS 4K rear rotors.

 

Everything fit perfectly, and makes good use of the 235 width tire on moderate/hard braking. Too soon to tell its effect on my MPG's.

 

People like us like to find a reason to 'fix' the car, probably because it seems there's always room for improvement!

 

Sounds like more tuning is next on your to-do list..

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I went with Vogue Signature Black's, the only reason I went with 235/55/17 instead of 225/60/17 is those tires didn't come that big. Other day I went to shop for tires for my parent's CRV and noticed that's because Vogue has "SCT" (SUV, Crossover, Light Truck) version for such tall tires, oh well next time!

 

Overall seem like good tires and with rebates were hard to beat. They did pretty well in the snow and handle just fine. I'm actually thinking of getting a set for the LGT, because my Falken FK450's don't have much life left only 1 year in (~10k miles).

 

FYI WRX is 5x114.3, so their rotors are slightly different then LGT/3.6R. I personally don't have any stopping issues on my Outback so I'm glad to have less rotational mass (maybe that's why my car gets above EPA MPG wise?).

 

I saw a 2-3 MPG drop with the tires (odometer corrected), and that's after I did rear pads and regreased the slider pins. I expected it to go up not drop haha. But I think the brand new tread has too much squirm so it robbed me of some.

 

I've been learning how the stock tune works, would really be useful to see it through IDA and it's logic, but meanwhile I can only deal with the maps heh. What bit me the other day is, it hit the "cruise" maps during WOT pulls (has never done that before!), turns out since my IAM was like 0.125, it starts using the cruise maps, aka failsafe 87 octane maps, armed with this I might make a dual octane tune afterall...

05 LGT 16G 14psi 290whp/30mpg (SOLD)

12 OBP Stock 130whp/27mpg@87 Oct

00 G20t GT28r 10psi 250whp/36mpg

22 Ascent STOCK

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 6 months later...

It's been a while since I posted any updates. So figured I would post some Outback love :wub:.

 

We bought a new kitchen table (60-80" x 40") and 6 chairs from Costco. It was a great deal, but was an hour away. So we took a leap of faith and went on the Outback. This thing has a blackhole in it, it fit with some room to spare :lol:

attachment.php?attachmentid=272755&stc=1&d=1548444399

 

Outback has surprised us plenty with it's utility, I'm pretty excited to see how the Ascent will compare in real world utility (once they come down in price).

20190115_212947.thumb.jpg.0d500ca2c7a805ef345999706cd2b267.jpg

05 LGT 16G 14psi 290whp/30mpg (SOLD)

12 OBP Stock 130whp/27mpg@87 Oct

00 G20t GT28r 10psi 250whp/36mpg

22 Ascent STOCK

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now



×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

Terms of Use