2008 Legacy 3.0R price inquiry.

Hi Guys,

 

Owner of a Subaru BRZ here. But I am not sure about other Subaru cars. Today I came across a nice clean copy of a 2008 3.0R. It has about 65k miles and dealer is asking about $8k. I looked at the carfax report. There wasn't an accident, but damage was reported once back in 2011. The damage spot is driver side quarter post. It seems to have been repaired. Cannot see what is obviously wrong here.

 

So my question is how is the long term reliability of these cars after 11 years? Does the engine tend to blow gasket or not and whether the transmission is durable in the long run. Finally of course, whether the price is too high? It is sold at a Honda dealer. So I am not sure how much I can bargain down the price. Thanks for any suggestions!

Price seems to do a lot with location. In utah, that low of mileage with the 3.0 engine would likely go for 10k plus. In Florida it might be a bit high.

 

Most of the problems seem to be with turbo models and related to the turbo itself. Other than head gaskets, which are a typical issue on higher mileage subarus but usually past 100k.

 

 

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Price seems good to me, reminds me of another low mileage legacy I came across recently for $8k, except this is a 4cyl.

https://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-sale/vehicledetails.xhtml?listingId=523938115

 

 

From what I've read on here, the 6cyls seem to be good engines. The only worry that I would have is the brake lines if it has lived in an area that sees snow.

 

https://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/dealership-denied-rusted-brake-line-repair-recall-smoking-guni-269642.html

Thanks. I didn't realize that the valuation for these cars is so robust. I was hoping to negotiate about $1k off. Maybe not.

 

From my limited awd knowledge I think these 3.0r should have a more than decent all wheel drive. But I am kinda surprised that the HP is only 180+. So the engine is designed to spin slower but generate decent torque at the lower end?

 

How is the shifting quality of the automatic transmission? I think I am going to test drive it tomorrow and getting a bit serious. Thanks for the input.

 

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I drove a regular 09 outback before getting my xt. An automatic in TERRIBLE condition. Transmission seemed solid. Most people seem to think they are fine so I think it depends on what you want. I think you're looking at the wrong specs though. I'm pretty sure the h6 has 240ish hp.

 

As for the awd, I find that any subie I've driven in snowy weather has been more than fine. But they aren't really a robust ohv. I don't think any of them have locking differentials just limited slip rears. Now my knowledge in that area isn't super great but the basics are it's a great passenger car but don't expect miracles 4 miles into the swamp.

 

Maybe someone with an h6 can chime in on any issues they've had. Do they have better head gaskets than the na 2.5? Maybe look up on subaruoutback.org to see if there are common issues.

 

 

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I drove a regular 09 outback before getting my xt. An automatic in TERRIBLE condition. Transmission seemed solid. Most people seem to think they are fine so I think it depends on what you want. I think you're looking at the wrong specs though. I'm pretty sure the h6 has 240ish hp.

 

As for the awd, I find that any subie I've driven in snowy weather has been more than fine. But they aren't really a robust ohv. I don't think any of them have locking differentials just limited slip rears. Now my knowledge in that area isn't super great but the basics are it's a great passenger car but don't expect miracles 4 miles into the swamp.

 

Maybe someone with an h6 can chime in on any issues they've had. Do they have better head gaskets than the na 2.5? Maybe look up on subaruoutback.org to see if there are common issues.

 

 

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The 3.0R have a 5EAT like the GT models. The 2.5i have a 4EAT. I would guess that it has a limited slip rear end, because my 2009 2.5i Outback has a viscous limited slip rear end. (mine is just a special edition with HK radio, heated and power seat, no leather and no sunroof)

 

The 3.0R engine seems reliable and it maybe the most reliable engine of the 2005-2009 generation. It does not seem to suffer with the leaking headgaskets like the 2.5i or engine failures with turbo models. I have been looking for a nice example of a 2009 Outback 3.0R off an on the last year and seems to be a very low production model. (I want a 2009, because the 2008 and earlier are all LL Bean Edition with beige interior and carpets) I don't know if Legacy 3.0R is as rare.

Reading the posts in the forum, everyone , almost, is talking about LGT. Is LGT that much desirable than a 3.0R?

 

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I guess it depends what you're interested in. If you want to mod the engine and make more power then the 3.0r isn't what you want. Also if you want to drive a manual then, at least in North America, the 3.0r also isn't what you want as it was never offered as a manual here.

 

With that out of the way I personally think it fits nicely into a category of it's own. I wanted a nice daily driver without the worry and work that comes with a turbo. I also didn't want a dog. Additionally I wanted an optioned up 4th Gen. Which means the obvious option at that point is the 3.0r. It was also still designed with sport/performance in mind compared to the 2.5i. Same brakes as the GT, same suspension as the spec b, and same power distribution (F 45, R 55).

 

Getting back to the category. The fact that it's in its own I think makes it "less desirable" For people that want all out performance the GT is the answer. For someone that wants economy there's the 2.5i. Which leaves the 3.0r. seeing as the two most obvious categories are already filled, there isn't really much of a market left for it. Which is kind of the category I explained above. And I don't think there are many consumers in that category, hence it's less popular.

 

I guess a good way to look at it is, it's a GT with an NA engine. And a good/reliable NA at that.

 

I drove a GT and a 3.0r back to back, with the GF. And for different reasons we both liked the 3.0r more, it's such a nice and smooth engine.

 

Stock for stock I would much prefer the 3.0r. But it's not really a comparison anymore when you start to mod a GT or want a manual.

 

The 5eat isn't great. And does feel like it's letting the rest of the car down as far as feel is concerned. But it can be tweaked a bit for improvement via tuning. For me I was ok with the auto for my daily. A 6mt would be a ton more fun though. But again was never offered here.

Edited October 8, 2019 by nevets27

Reading the posts in the forum, everyone , almost, is talking about LGT. Is LGT that much desirable than a 3.0R?

 

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I think it's the points mentioned above. I mean it's a 10+ year old car and it's not a civic. It's not exactly cheap as an economy car and it's not exactly a wrx. Sounds like from the description above I would have preferred a 3.0r haha. But I refuse to have an automatic.

 

For only like 4k more my sister got a focus with 30k miles. (Disregard the transmission issues. Had I known I would have stopped her.) Might as well be brand new. I got a 153k mile outback that I flew cross country to buy and then it blew the engine halfway back. I'll be friggin 20k into the car by the time it's all done. Engine blew in June and it's almost done being rebuilt.

 

The lgt is a niche car. I mean think about it. A nearly $10k car on a dedicated forum. We are all 30+ who wanted something extremely specific. (OK maybe not all) but the kids are on Honda tech and reddit and the kids with money are on nasioc and reddit and the older people with money are driving bmw and Porsche.

 

Maybe I'm wrong but subies are kinda a niche in and of itself.

 

 

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I guess it depends what you're interested in. If you want to mod the engine and make more power then the 3.0r isn't what you want. Also if you want to drive a manual then, at least in North America, the 3.0r also isn't what you want as it was never offered as a manual here.

 

With that out of the way I personally think it fits nicely into a category of it's own. I wanted a nice daily driver without the worry and work that comes with a turbo. I also didn't want a dog. Additionally I wanted an optioned up 4th Gen. Which means the obvious option at that point is the 3.0r. It was also still designed with sport/performance in mind compared to the 2.5i. Same brakes as the GT, same suspension as the spec b, and same power distribution (F 45, R 55).

 

Getting back to the category. The fact that it's in its own I think makes it "less desirable" For people that want all out performance the GT is the answer. For someone that wants economy there's the 2.5i. Which leaves the 3.0r. seeing as the two most obvious categories are already filled, there isn't really much of a market left for it. Which is kind of the category I explained above. And I don't think there are many consumers in that category, hence it's less popular.

 

I guess a good way to look at it is, it's a GT with an NA engine. And a good/reliable NA at that.

 

I drove a GT and a 3.0r back to back, with the GF. And for different reasons we both liked the 3.0r more, it's such a nice and smooth engine.

 

Stock for stock I would much prefer the 3.0r. But it's not really a comparison anymore when you start to mod a GT or want a manual.

 

The 5eat isn't great. And does feel like it's letting the rest of the car down as far as feel is concerned. But it can be tweaked a bit for improvement via tuning. For me I was ok with the auto for my daily. A 6mt would be a ton more fun though. But again was never offered here.

Nice. My BRZ is a stick shift. Don't need another one. Also the 45:55 torque distribution is great. I guess this is the dream of an Audi? Is the 45:55 all the time, or it is the max which happens at certain RPM and engine load?

 

Also I read these cars have Bilstein suspension, which is great. However, how long do these Bilstein last? Should I be ready to pony up $2k to replace those dampers?

 

Finally, do you know the weight distribution? I always thought there's a connection between weight and torque distribution for AWD cars. But I don't know for sure.

 

 

 

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Nice. My BRZ is a stick shift. Don't need another one. Also the 45:55 torque distribution is great. I guess this is the dream of an Audi? Is the 45:55 all the time, or it is the max which happens at certain RPM and engine load?

 

Also I read these cars have Bilstein suspension, which is great. However, how long do these Bilstein last? Should I be ready to pony up $2k to replace those dampers?

 

Finally, do you know the weight distribution? I always thought there's a connection between weight and torque distribution for AWD cars. But I don't know for sure.

 

 

 

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45/55 is full time. In contrast the 2.5i is 90 Front until slip is detected, then it transfers more to the rear but it will "drive" like a FWD or so it seems on paper, I haven't driven a 4th Gen. I did have a 94 legacy and it drove like a fwd and took forever to realize the rear was slipping (a simple switch fixed that though )

 

As for the bilstein's I'm not really sure at what point they need to be replaced I'm sure that depends on a few factors. What I can say is that the Koni with stock springs provide a great ride. Prefect combo of comfort and Sport. And they are adjustable. And they definitely aren't 2k. Without getting into too much detail my 3.0r came with kyb so slightly different scenario.

 

No idea on weight distribution but I doubt it's anywhere close to 50/50 seeing as it's a front engine car...and they didn't put the battery in the back to try and shift even a small amount of weight to the rear so I'm sure there wasn't much thought put into that.

 

And I agree with the above. It's pretty much, and I hate to say it, a cheaper sport luxury sedan. But then again it's all about perspective. I work on my car and I like how easy it is to work on. As nice as German cars are I wouldn't want to deal with them.

 

Then again the flat six is just a sexy engine, I also love the boxer rumble but these have a their own beautiful tune.

 

 

BTW, if you haven't come across this site its a great resource:

http://www.cars101.com/subaru/legacy/legacy2008.html

 

Also as far as engine problems, from the research I had done there is very few issues these engines have. They don't have the head gasket issues like the 2.5's. The only common things I saw was a idler pulley bearing can wear out prematurely, super simple fix. And the timing chain tensioner can loosen or something (can't recall off the top of my head the exact situation). But from what I understand it's not an engine damage situation, you'll just hear rattling of the chain hitting the guides so that will tell you it needs some TLC without destroying anything. But neither of those things are guaranteed to happen at all. And since it is a timing chain, it doesn't ever need replacement. People get some pretty consistently high mileage out of these engines from what I've read. I think like 200k easily so at 65k if it turns out to be as reliable as seemingly the norm, you really shouldn't have to think about the engine at all. Just keep it well maintained. Also maintain the 5eat, change the fluid, keep it happy and it should be fine. People stress them a lot more here with the power the put out of their modded GT's.

 

There is actually some decent info on the forum here too. It's where I got what I need to be comfortable with my purchase. There just isn't that many threads about them here for some what obvious reasons. The outback forums should have a good amount of info too.

 

Honestly for the mileage sounds like a pretty decent deal. Of course it's not just mileage. Oh, somewhat like the GTs the front inner CV boots fail much sooner then most cars due to the heat from the exhaust. The GTs only have one that goes bad quicker, while the 3.0 have both over top of the exhaust, thankfully they are easy to see from the top of the engine bay. About the only other common thing is the rear bushing in the front control arms, they go bad pretty quick. But aren't a big deal seeing as that's about it. Lastly is rust, behind rear doors under the plastic, rear wheel wells and there's a junction/4way for the brake lines right in front of the rear passenger tire, there's a little access panel you can flip open to see it. (There's a recall for that)* Those are the places to look, if you're in an area that has rust. But these seem to be pretty good as stuff rust pretty good hear and mine is actually in good shape.

 

*Side note I still can't believe Subaru was still doing this is 2009, my 94 had the exact same brake line routing and failed at that exact same spot. Get another Subaru that's 15 years newer and same problem. BTW (again if in a rust prone area) just keep it well covered in rust preventative oil and that should help prevent a problem.

 

 

Lastly, if you read this before taking the test drive, be sure to play with the paddle shifting. It's no manual but it's definitely something, rev matched down shifting is fun. And remember to put it in "S#" (makes it shift more sporty but also makes the throttle a bit more touchy) When you first start it there will be a blue light in the bottom left of the dashboard, you can't put it into S# until that blue light goes out (the engine has warmed up). You can put it into "S" right away, which I would do. Whatever you do don't drive it in "i" you'll hate it [emoji14]

Edited October 9, 2019 by nevets27

I am in agreement with the comments above with GT being better for modifying/MT option and the reliability of the 3.0R.

 

In the Outback world, the 3.0R seems to be worth a little more in resale value than a XT. I checked the book value and that reflect it as well (about a couple hundred). The XT was $2k more expensive new. I looked up the NADA book value of the 3.0R Legacy and there was noticeable difference with the GT being more.

 

On a side note of surprise to me was the Legacy GT was worth more than the Outback XT, which was not always the case. (2008 was slightly higher, 2009 was $2k more) In the 2.5i models, the Outback usually carries a $1500+ premium through the generation. It probably more of case of the Legacy GT demand growing. I looked up a 2005 LGT and it was still relatively dirt cheap at $4700, so it doesn't appear to be across the entire generation only the later ones.

Man, I just realized that this forum is called LGT, not just legacy. No wonder everyone is talking about GT. What is the most appropriate forum for 3.0r owners? Nasoic?

 

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Nasioc is a bit obnoxious. Mostly wrx owners and lots of epeen and flaming. Some of the best answers I find are in old threads from banned users who give the answer sandwiched between insults of how dumb you are.

 

Subaruoutback.org seems a lot more tame. Less performance oriented and lots of good info. For the wagons it seems like they are similar enough. But for technical info nasioc and here for sure. Lots of people here have multiple subarus. Covertrussian, maxcapacity, boxkita are some that come to mind that I find their threads helpful. Tehnation tends to chime in with good stuff as well as jmp and some of the shops in old threads. Max isn't angry all the time and at least had or has a civic race car, seems to know his stuff.

 

Nasioc the unabomber manifesto links are great. But his stuff, uncle scotty, and some others come off unnecessarily rough and it's definitely boyracer wrx focused. Their sales forum is chock full of goodies though.

 

 

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Man, I just realized that this forum is called LGT, not just legacy. No wonder everyone is talking about GT. What is the most appropriate forum for 3.0r owners? Nasoic?

 

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Seeing as the 3.0r is identical to the LGT other then the engine (and front sway bar) I would say this is an appropriate home and from what I've seen everyone is welcoming. The Outback is very similar too, with there being just a slight difference in suspension so the info there is useful. The above post is accurate about the different fourms and the users here and there.

 

There's a lot of good info around.

I love my 09 3.0R limited... Sucks that I need to replace my front bilsteins at only 62k miles but I love this car to death. Aside from a dirty/faulty MAF and bad fuel pump, it's been great.

 

Can't wait for this year's snow! Got my first set of snow tires coming in

Did the test drive ever happen?

Maybe he bought the 3.0R and he's having too much fun to post

Did the test drive ever happen?

Yes. I test drove it. The Sport setting did tighten up the ride a lot. But I didn't find Sports+ make a lot of difference. I did a few 0-40 under traffic lights, I didn't find it very quick. But it met my expectations. I just wanted a unique car in good condition. What killed the deal is that the dealer really didn't want to reduce the price by one dollar which made me very suspicious. The next day car was sold. Damn, I really don't know how things work now. I used to be able to bargain a truck load off the asking price.

 

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Yes. I test drove it. The Sport setting did tighten up the ride a lot. But I didn't find Sports+ make a lot of difference. I did a few 0-40 under traffic lights, I didn't find it very quick. But it met my expectations. I just wanted a unique car in good condition. What killed the deal is that the dealer really didn't want to reduce the price by one dollar which made me very suspicious. The next day car was sold. Damn, I really don't know how things work now. I used to be able to bargain a truck load off the asking price.

 

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I think the transmission does let the car down a bit. It would definitely be quicker with a manual. Though I'm not personally sure how much better it gets with some tuning, from what I've read it does get much better. The other annoyance is the DBW, it really feels like it's restricting the throttle and actually I have looked at TPS vs throttle plate position and it definitely does. Again should be able to be fixed with tuning. It is a bit annoying it left the factory like this but I guess it was setup for a more smooth and gettle ride or something. 0-40 isn't the 3.0R strong point (and compared to brz I'm guessing any legacy will be slower off the line due to the weight of it). It does better at passing, it can get into its power band quick when its already rolling.

 

Completely uneducated guess is that it was a good price already. They either had it higher already and reduced or just started low. If it didn't have anything wrong with it and it was that low mileage as long as someone who drove it was impressed/happy with it then the price wouldn't have been too hard to swallow at 8k.

I love my 3.0R. Just wish I had more time to work on it. That aside, I am contemplating moving on to a full electric... Decisions Decisions.

Yes. I test drove it. The Sport setting did tighten up the ride a lot. But I didn't find Sports+ make a lot of difference. I did a few 0-40 under traffic lights, I didn't find it very quick. But it met my expectations. I just wanted a unique car in good condition. What killed the deal is that the dealer really didn't want to reduce the price by one dollar which made me very suspicious. The next day car was sold. Damn, I really don't know how things work now. I used to be able to bargain a truck load off the asking price.

 

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Bummer dude, those are amazing cars really. I got my '08 with 90K in Seattle for 10k. $8K is a killer deal for that mileage.

 

I'll just say the 3.0R is under-rated, it's almost as fast as a LGT, just doesn't feel like it cause you don't get that turbo kick. It's quick, I rallycross mine and podium every time. Beats STIs and other turbo cars in the dirt all the time. That 45/55 split is all the time, and with the LSD and bilstein suspension, it's almost unfair ha.